If you haven't looked at the new Skulls, please do.
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-08-19 24:36 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Giant tikis and voodoo are more Carribean than African.
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Originally Posted by Kederren
I guess I should mean to say that I thought of them as Caribbean Voodoo Gangers, not Cultists. But the BP always struck me as more African than Caribbean.
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C'mon, really? Nobody's going to say it? |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
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They all look caucasian now. Where's the racial diversity?
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Well emo hair Skull can be the Vega of the group (yes I'm referencing Street Fighter).
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Yeah! Where's the African-Slovacs? And the Asian-Slovacs? And the Latino-Slovacs? Huh? Huh? HUH?
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Originally Posted by ThePill
C'mon, really? Nobody's going to say it?
They all look caucasian now. Where's the racial diversity? |
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That's kinda the point. |
Originally Posted by ThePill
C'mon, really? Nobody's going to say it?
They all look caucasian now. Where's the racial diversity? |
The fact that they're a gang with strong Eastern European roots has been played up. Much like the Family, Tsoo, and a lot of gangs/criminal organizations in real life, there's an aspect of racial homogeneity.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
They didn't just play it up, they made them talk like they were all first-generation immigrants. Like I said earlier, it's not a gang, it's an invasion.
I liked the old neighborhood gang better.
At least they are dropping the accent, or looking for a better way to express it. After reading some of the samples, I was anticipating walking around King's Row and hearing "Hey, Stanislov. When car finished burning, how about we keel Moose and Squirrel?"
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Thanks for that. |
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Yeah! Where's the African-Slovacs? And the Asian-Slovacs? And the Latino-Slovacs? Huh? Huh? HUH?
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I like the new skulls. Ironically, when I first saw the hair-do some seem to dislike I called my wife over to check out the "cool hair on this guy". It is not a style I would want for my son nor myself, but it seems to fit a youthful ganger.
The one thing I do not like is the hard skulls on even minions. Minions should only have painted faces, but that is minor.
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What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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Just as a minor point, Slovakia is not in Eastern Europe, it's in Central Europe. Austria is it's western border, as a point of reference.
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I pictured this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XSeF...eature=related|
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
They didn't just play it up, they made them talk like they were all first-generation immigrants. Like I said earlier, it's not a gang, it's an invasion.
I liked the old neighborhood gang better. At least they are dropping the accent, or looking for a better way to express it. After reading some of the samples, I was anticipating walking around King's Row and hearing "Hey, Stanislov. When car finished burning, how about we keel Moose and Squirrel?" |
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I keep expecting the new Skulls to say "In Russia, bears much smaller. Also more hair. Less lurking. Always eager to wrestle."
I was always under the impression that the Petrovic brothers were Marrowsnap and Marrow Drinker. Apparently man-bear-mountain-thing Chernobog is actually one of them. I don't approve of that change. He looks stupid, but...meh.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Realistic or not, there's that little part of me inside that never can help but think this game's got a HUGE discrepancy between white, Anglo-Saxon (and mostly male) heroes to Ethic criminals and villains.|
Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
That's kinda the point.
The fact that they're a gang with strong Eastern European roots has been played up. Much like the Family, Tsoo, and a lot of gangs/criminal organizations in real life, there's an aspect of racial homogeneity. |
It makes me joke that the real reason Penelope Yin was recruited into the Phalanx was to legal claims of discrimination and make sure the black was still kept out of the group since Statesman's clout and 'being the product of another era' could no longer shield them.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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That may be but to us old timers it was once part of Czechoslovakia and an Iron Curtain country, therefore part of Soviet Eastern Europe Vs NATO's Western Europe.
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Originally Posted by _eeek_
Just as a minor point, Slovakia is not in Eastern Europe, it's in Central Europe. Austria is it's western border, as a point of reference.
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It's not all Slovacs, and it is a fair point. The Skulls in particular are mentioned for going on a recruitment drive recently and bolstering their numbers from Galaxy City refugees and I imagine Praetorian refugees as well. They're going to be a fairly diverse lot these days, though I figure you run into more Slovacs at the upper levels, like the Bone Daddies. Those guys are the buddies and long time foot soldiers and officers of the Petrovic brothers.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Yeah! Where's the African-Slovacs? And the Asian-Slovacs? And the Latino-Slovacs? Huh? Huh? HUH?
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I'm not sure if the newer dev-created enemies do the same thing as the old ones, where it was a bunch of different models of the same enemy with different skin tones and faces. Which also lead to some wackiness, like the Longbow Guardian with the skin tight, figure displaying uniform... and the face of a wrinkled old woman.
Come to think of it, I remember at one of the Player Summits someone asking about giving us that capability in AE, being able to set it so that the game would randomly assign a skin tone and face to a custom enemy. The dev response to that idea was "... we could use that..." and scribbling down some notes.
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It's a common problem in most MMOs and American culture in general. In Other Superhero MMO, for example, I discovered it was surprisingly more difficult to make some with African, Latino, or Native American features or even brown skinned than it was to make someone from Mars.|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Realistic or not, there's that little part of me inside that never can help but think this game's got a HUGE discrepancy between white, Anglo-Saxon (and mostly male) heroes to Ethic criminals and villains.
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In some ways, CoH is better than others. Black Scorpion is hispanic, and Duray, Calvin Scott, and Aurora Borealis are black, and nothing is really made of it beyond that they're all in positions of respect and leadership. I have a dislike for Captain Ethnics (my main is a result of that: me making an American Indian character who's powers, theme, and backstory have absolutely nothing to do with her being American Indian).
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Out of curiosity - Is there ANY lore that says the Skulls are an ethnic gang? Being founded by a couple of guys named Petrovic means zilch in a country where 98% of the population traces its roots to other continents. My surname is German but I have about as much resemblance to a citizen of Germany as a Ball Park hot dog has to a bratwurst.
If they want to say "Hey, this was a Slavic gang all along" then I'd like to see more background than just "They were founded by a couple of guys with names that sounded like they might be Czechoslovakian or something like it. What more do you need?"
My impression was that the magic and traditions they're based in are related to Eastern European legends and traditions, though probably a mishmash of other stuff too.
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@Doc Reverend
I believe this is often known as the troubling phenomenon Humans are White. Apparently it extends beyond space opera and fantasy settings.
@SlickRiptide
Here, sort of. If I recall, it says nothing about the Skulls being Slavic, but the Petrovich brothers themselves were, as were the original gang(s) they ran with until they struck out on their own.
Also, devs are really gonna need to update that page.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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This is my major beef with it. And, while the visuals of the gang needed an update, their background, dialogue and whatnot did NOT need a big, fat retcon. |
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
Out of curiosity - Is there ANY lore that says the Skulls are an ethnic gang? Being founded by a couple of guys named Petrovic means zilch in a country where 98% of the population traces its roots to other continents. My surname is German but I have about as much resemblance to a citizen of Germany as a Ball Park hot dog has to a bratwurst.
If they want to say "Hey, this was a Slavic gang all along" then I'd like to see more background than just "They were founded by a couple of guys with names that sounded like they might be Czechoslovakian or something like it. What more do you need?" |
No, I don't like it, and no, I'm not going to shut up about it until something better is done with it, because I KNOW the Dev/Writer team can do better than this, and I don't like half-arsedness that borders on the Bad.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Yeah, I'm aware of the backgrounder and the problem is that it doesn't say any of those things that you said about the Petrovics. Maybe something on the original version of the website said that. I'm not sure if I'm motivated to dig through the Wayback looking for it, because if I found it, I would just have another reason to get started on Standard Lore Rant #4 about how the studio trashes and discards its own lore.|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
@SlickRiptide
Here, sort of. If I recall, it says nothing about the Skulls being Slavic, but the Petrovich brothers themselves were, as were the original gang(s) they ran with until they struck out on their own. Also, devs are really gonna need to update that page. |
A screencap of the "info" link on Marrowsnap might prove interesting though. Maybe I'll make a new char and run through Bonefire to see it.
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It's called a rewrite. There is a precedent in this game for existing lore to be expanded upon or changed when re-examined and updated.|
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
Out of curiosity - Is there ANY lore that says the Skulls are an ethnic gang? Being founded by a couple of guys named Petrovic means zilch in a country where 98% of the population traces its roots to other continents. My surname is German but I have about as much resemblance to a citizen of Germany as a Ball Park hot dog has to a bratwurst.
If they want to say "Hey, this was a Slavic gang all along" then I'd like to see more background than just "They were founded by a couple of guys with names that sounded like they might be Czechoslovakian or something like it. What more do you need?" |
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| I would just have another reason to get started on Standard Lore Rant #4 about how the studio trashes and discards its own lore. |
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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Well, they do mention that they have a drinking porblem, although vodka isn't mentioned.
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Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
I keep expecting the new Skulls to say "In Russia, bears much smaller. Also more hair. Less lurking. Always eager to wrestle."
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Easy there, Howard.
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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
they were all first-generation immigrants. Like I said earlier, it's not a gang, it's an invasion.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I guess I should mean to say that I thought of them as Caribbean Voodoo Gangers, not Cultists. But the BP always struck me as more African than Caribbean.