If you haven't looked at the new Skulls, please do.
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-08-19 24:36 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
What I find funny is that we have here 20 something pages discussing a revamp to an ancient enemy group (Issue 0) that was a very good one (minus a certain hairstyle). In fact, I don't have any idea what the issue with the Lore is that folks are so heated about, and I'd like to think a know a good deal about Lore in general.
*shrug*
Is this anything more than a quibble re: minutiae?
Sometimes the minutiae are COOL.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Which reminds me that the 3rd and 4th actors that appeared in the most episodes, about half of them, of the old show The Wild Wild West played henchmen. Not the same henchmen, just random henchmen for the villain of the week. There were a number of repeat henchmen, stagecoach drivers, townsfolk back then, it was called central casting.
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Originally Posted by BellaStrega
Yes, but this thread is essentially complaining that extra #237 appeared in episode 202 of <random TV series> after extra #237 who may or may not have been portraying the same character was killed in episode 118.
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Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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I'm going to have to back up Zero on this one. I've tried multiple time to resist the siren song of City Of Heroes, but the proverbial spike in the chest has had its first strike toward this once C.O.H. addict's heart. Why, one might ask? A big part of my lack of desire to play has been the seemingly hashed together and piecemeal nature of not just the zones, but the story arcs and the writing itself.|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
Well think about it like this, if you can't wrap your head around why someone might actually quit over consistently bad writing. There's an entire community in this game dedicated to Roleplaying and immersing their characters in the world of CoH. When that world starts getting shaken or bad plotlines are introduced, it can make some RPers lose interest in that world and want to find a new one, in a new game that treats writing with a little more respect.
And even then, some players on these boards aren't heavy RPers at all and still bring up viable complaints against writing just because they enjoy a good story and came to CoH for one. If the writing blows, it's not like CoH is a unique MMO. May as well pack up and find a new one that has what you're looking for; better writers. |
Maybe at the ripe old age of twenty eight I'm finally growing up and out of video games. I tried buying an X Box, lost interest in that, and I still came back to City Of Heroes. That says something about this wonderful game and a testament of what the dev.'s have gotten right all these years. I have said C.O.H. will be my last video game numerous times in numerous threads; and at this point it's true. The problem is that Paragon is simply making that transition out of playing video games much easier because they simply aren't putting in as much care as they used to. Well, they certainly reflected that attitude back onto me and I definitely care less about this game. Most of the new content is almost unplayable because of all the erroneously spelled words and horrible takes on accents (now) too. The stories themselves are becoming more and more trite as time goes on.
Night Ward's Fireball arc and the bulk of the other Night Ward content left a bitter taste in my mouth. The terrible plots I could see in a video game, but the grammar itself and the spelling errors made me unable to finish out Night Ward. I already hated the duplicate zone of First Ward and I found the whole zone and content update wholly unprofessional and lacking the polish that Paragon Studios was once dedicated to up until this past issue's point. The stories were disjointed and many were completely pointless endeavors.
The dev.'s are smart people and know how to deliver; Nature Affinity, I'm looking at you! I just don't understand the inconsistency in delivered content. Paragon needs to reprioritize certain things and bump quality assurance up a peg or two because I for one can't tolerate traipsing through poorly constructed sentence after poorly constructed sentence. For instance, I cannot believe that the whole "Shark Week" fan fiction made it past Q.A. and onto the main page. That was terrible writing and an unprofessional breach between customer and content provider. It totally dismantled any facade of professionalism that this game has for me. It was like reading some teenager's fan fiction on a web log or something. Not to mention that it is the very same writing that is seeping into the game lore itself. Furthermore, the dev.'s have made it clear they don't give a damn about inconsistencies: the time frame of zones and level progression is all a jumbled mess at this point because of certain story arcs ending before they begin (Praetoria and the Praetorians seeking sanctuary on earth).
I'm getting the feeling that Paragon Studios is getting ready to bid adieu to City Of Heroes because of its blatant attitude of "screw it" that we've been seeing lately. If this isn't the case, get your stuff together guys, the writing is making the game nearly unplayable at this point.
P.S. Nalrok_AthZim, I'm one of Zero's former S.G. mates in a pretty longstanding S.G. that is now more or less defunct. I am one of those people that rarely plays at this point because of the writing.
In my experience, a lot of players find the story aspect of the game inadequate, but they don't get onto the forums and complain about it.
What they do instead is they learn to click through it all without reading. Click past the garbage and get to the fighting. Which means, essentially, that whatever time the devs are spending on story isn't entertaining to this section of the player base.
As for the argument that a company would stop / change a practice because it reduces their revenue ... keep in mind that not everyone runs their company well. Some people just don't do a good job; instead they do the bare minimum needed to get by. They're not always enlightened servants of their audience. ("eh heh eh heh ... Customers suck!")
I'm not saying CoH is going to go out of business because they scribble and scramble their stories, but I think it's fair to say they don't capture all the audience they could if they did write better stories.
And as for revamps ... revamps are fine. But they should provide opportunities to clear up inconsistencies and improve the product, not opportunities to create new inconsistencies and reduce quality.
Graphically, the Skulls look better now because they are using newer art. However, they do take a step backward by missing the iconic gang symbol on their jackets, the name change of the Petrovics isn't explained, the Yakov accent doesn't fit with the varied ethnicity of the group or their history (none of the Skulls had an accent before), and possibly Chernobog looks too goofy to be anything other than a caricature.
Since none of that was required (i.e., the devs can put a Skulls emblem on jacket models if they want, the devs can explain the change of name for the Petrovics if they want, the devs didn't have to add nonsensical Yakov accents, and they could have made Chernobog look more chilling), it makes the revamp look poorly handled. As if it was done by someone without a care or clue, which was probably the case.
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It's one of those arguments which, at this point, isn't about the Skulls at all, but rather the broader aspect of whether continuity should even be followed or not, which only tangentially relates to the Skulls redesign in terms of whether the redesign should have anything to do with the original look.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
What I find funny is that we have here 20 something pages discussing a revamp to an ancient enemy group (Issue 0) that was a very good one (minus a certain hairstyle). In fact, I don't have any idea what the issue with the Lore is that folks are so heated about, and I'd like to think a know a good deal about Lore in general.
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The answer to the specific is actually pretty simple: The new Skulls look enough like the old ones to be recognisable as such. They lack some specific detailing, but it's not enough "break" their design. About the only thing objectively wrong with them is the octopus hair. This is in contrast to the CoT redesign, where their new design more resembled some kind of coral reef on legs that had nothing to do with the robe-wearing wizards of old. The CoT were controversial. The Skulls are not. They're pretty much like they always were, just more diverse and different in fine details.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I agree writers shouldn't mess stuff up out of ignorance or laziness- anyone writing for a game should be conversant with the applicable universe.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The thing is that this shouldn't really cost anything to accomplish, or at least not cost much. Even if our writers aren't as knowledgeable as rabid lore hounds and can't quote contact dialogue off memory, that's what ParagonWiki is and, worse come to worst, that's what Beta should be for. Seriously, why not post a storyboard for an upcoming arc and run it by Beta-going players to make sure you haven't gotten any of the canon completely wrong?
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But when that happens....it doesn't bother me particularly. I never notice it in-game and probably wouldn't notice it at all save for the indignant forum threads.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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So you're basically here to tell myself and other posters that we're indignant. Fantastic.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I agree writers shouldn't mess stuff up out of ignorance or laziness- anyone writing for a game should be conversant with the applicable universe.
But when that happens....it doesn't bother me particularly. I never notice it in-game and probably wouldn't notice it at all save for the indignant forum threads. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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The only thing bigger than the stupidity of this statement is its inaccuracy.
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Originally Posted by konshu
As if it was done by someone without a care or clue, which was probably the case.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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They're seem to be moving away from a strict level = time progression - the new post-war arcs are marked as happening after I23, just like Belladonna's arc is marked as taking place after the events in Dark Astoria.
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Originally Posted by End Sinister
the time frame of zones and level progression is all a jumbled mess at this point because of certain story arcs ending before they begin (Praetoria and the Praetorians seeking sanctuary on earth).
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Nice post. We'll make a Villain of you yet, GG. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The only thing bigger than the stupidity of this statement is its inaccuracy.
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Seriously, anyone who makes even a basic check of the list of people logged in on the forums will see the crazy times the red names are logged in - not just the writers, but all the devs and the community team - you'll even see them logged on at the weekend - because they care enough about the product to work way beyond their normal working hours, either at the office or from home.
Claiming that they "can't be bothered" or "don't care" is both insulting and ridiculous.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
So you're basically here to tell myself and other posters that we're indignant. Fantastic.
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| Indignant: feeling, characterized by, or expressing strong displeasure at something considered unjust, offensive, insulting, or base. |
You never miss a chance to play the victim, do you.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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And you never miss a chance to peg me in a way that makes you look good.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
You never miss a chance to play the victim, do you.
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You've made it clear why you're here. You've openly said you don't care about the story, that you don't notice it; you've said it bothers you when people talk about it in any sort of way that doesn't fit your tastes. From your hollow posts and insults it's pretty obvious that you're just here to pick internet fights.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
You never miss a chance to play the victim, do you.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
And you never miss a chance to peg me in a way that makes you look good.
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Walking away from an argument does not mean you lose, it just means you don't want to argue any longer. BTW, this particular argument started back on page 1 of this thread. By my count, we're on page 24 now. When will it be enough?
And before anyone accuses me of hypocrisy, yes, I've been guilty of it as well.
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And, in other news, rain is wet!|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
You've made it clear why you're here. You've openly said you don't care about the story, that you don't notice it; you've said it bothers you when people talk about it in any sort of way that doesn't fit your tastes. From your hollow posts and insults it's pretty obvious that you're just here to pick internet fights.
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@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Film at eleven.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
And, in other news, rain is wet!
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Quote:
You post, I reply.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
And you never miss a chance to peg me in a way that makes you look good.
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If that's not working out so great for you, maybe re-think what you're saying.
Not sure why you're surprised slapping at a porcupine gets you a hand full of quills.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I'm actually kind of curious how this thread turned into that perception. I don't see where anything of the sort has happened. The closest I can come is the complaint that making the Skulls entirely ethnic now is something of a contradiction to how they've been portrayed for the last eight years.|
Originally Posted by BellaStrega
Yes, but this thread is essentially complaining that extra #237 appeared in episode 202 of <random TV series> after extra #237 who may or may not have been portraying the same character was killed in episode 118.
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I don't see it as a game breaker but I also don't see it as a minor nitpick when there are so many other ways of portraying the same information.
Otherwise, I don't really see where anything that's going on here amounts to demands for unswerving adherence to canon or whatever.
Put another way, I don't see where justifying the changes in light of the history of the game setting is some kind of demand that lore never deviate from previous canon. At worst, it's a request to express the "deviation" in terms of the established canon instead of ignoring it. I fail to see how this could be a bad thing.
To wit - If the Skulls ARE an ethnic gang through and through, where is the ethnic neighborhood now that Perez Park is sealed off and nobody is living there? Unless King's Row turned into Little Prussia overnight, the question deserves a couple of minutes worth of thought by whoever is doing the writing.
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This.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Seriously, anyone who makes even a basic check of the list of people logged in on the forums will see the crazy times the red names are logged in - not just the writers, but all the devs and the community team - you'll even see them logged on at the weekend - because they care enough about the product to work way beyond their normal working hours, either at the office or from home.
Claiming that they "can't be bothered" or "don't care" is both insulting and ridiculous. |
I really like it and i hope they continue on revamping older enemy groups.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
I liked the shark week story! I was laughing so hard about "but I ate Woofers!" my husband had to come over and see what was going on.
I'll forgive spelling and grammar errors for wit and cleverness, every time.
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Wait, when did you grow up? This is far too adult for the 19-year-old GG I know.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Seriously, anyone who makes even a basic check of the list of people logged in on the forums will see the crazy times the red names are logged in - not just the writers, but all the devs and the community team - you'll even see them logged on at the weekend - because they care enough about the product to work way beyond their normal working hours, either at the office or from home.
Claiming that they "can't be bothered" or "don't care" is both insulting and ridiculous. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Quote:
Yeah, the lapses in lore and the abandonment of the basic structure of the game (lower levels take place BEFORE upper levels, always) are aggravating and make me care less and less about the tale, but the atrocious spelling and grammar makes me grind my teeth. Soon I'll only be eating applesauce.|
Originally Posted by End Sinister
I'm going to have to back up Zero on this one. I've tried multiple time to resist the siren song of City Of Heroes, but the proverbial spike in the chest has had its first strike toward this once C.O.H. addict's heart. Why, one might ask? A big part of my lack of desire to play has been the seemingly hashed together and piecemeal nature of not just the zones, but the story arcs and the writing itself.
Maybe at the ripe old age of twenty eight I'm finally growing up and out of video games. I tried buying an X Box, lost interest in that, and I still came back to City Of Heroes. That says something about this wonderful game and a testament of what the dev.'s have gotten right all these years. I have said C.O.H. will be my last video game numerous times in numerous threads; and at this point it's true. The problem is that Paragon is simply making that transition out of playing video games much easier because they simply aren't putting in as much care as they used to. Well, they certainly reflected that attitude back onto me and I definitely care less about this game. Most of the new content is almost unplayable because of all the erroneously spelled words and horrible takes on accents (now) too. The stories themselves are becoming more and more trite as time goes on. Night Ward's Fireball arc and the bulk of the other Night Ward content left a bitter taste in my mouth. The terrible plots I could see in a video game, but the grammar itself and the spelling errors made me unable to finish out Night Ward. I already hated the duplicate zone of First Ward and I found the whole zone and content update wholly unprofessional and lacking the polish that Paragon Studios was once dedicated to up until this past issue's point. The stories were disjointed and many were completely pointless endeavors. The dev.'s are smart people and know how to deliver; Nature Affinity, I'm looking at you! I just don't understand the inconsistency in delivered content. Paragon needs to reprioritize certain things and bump quality assurance up a peg or two because I for one can't tolerate traipsing through poorly constructed sentence after poorly constructed sentence. For instance, I cannot believe that the whole "Shark Week" fan fiction made it past Q.A. and onto the main page. That was terrible writing and an unprofessional breach between customer and content provider. It totally dismantled any facade of professionalism that this game has for me. It was like reading some teenager's fan fiction on a web log or something. Not to mention that it is the very same writing that is seeping into the game lore itself. Furthermore, the dev.'s have made it clear they don't give a damn about inconsistencies: the time frame of zones and level progression is all a jumbled mess at this point because of certain story arcs ending before they begin (Praetoria and the Praetorians seeking sanctuary on earth). I'm getting the feeling that Paragon Studios is getting ready to bid adieu to City Of Heroes because of its blatant attitude of "screw it" that we've been seeing lately. If this isn't the case, get your stuff together guys, the writing is making the game nearly unplayable at this point. P.S. Nalrok_AthZim, I'm one of Zero's former S.G. mates in a pretty longstanding S.G. that is now more or less defunct. I am one of those people that rarely plays at this point because of the writing. |
I actually started taking screenshots of errors, but that project became overwhelming so quickly that I gave it up. I just have to accept the fact that whoever these new writers are, they actually think "alright" is a damn word and I have to ignore that for my sanity. But it's nearly impossible to find any recent addition to the game which doesn't have a spelling or grammar error. Grammar you can let slide for stylistic reasons (if one assumes the writer *knows* the rules in the first place, which I don't believe they do), but every word processor for the past 25 years has had a spellcheck in it. Now browsers do. It's unacceptable to see things like "seperated" and the constant use of things like "diffuse the bomb." Well, I wish I had that power. Sounds cool.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Yes, but this thread is essentially complaining that extra #237 appeared in episode 202 of <random TV series> after extra #237 who may or may not have been portraying the same character was killed in episode 118.
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