Powerset Wise, What Comic Book Staples Are We Still Missing?


Acroyear2

 

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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post

In regards to the much vaunted Blast/Armor AT, you realize that for balance purposes, the blasts and armor would have to be so weak that you'd be better suited just getting a Corruptor some defense bonuses and calling it a day? I realize that wouldn't give you shoulder-mounted rockets or wrist lasers, but ah well.
Uh....no? No, not true at all. All current EATs say "Sorry, you're wrong." Assault sets with blasts and melee? Check. Armours? Check. Not weak? Double check.

Argument: INVALID. And has been since for ever (or at least since EATs came out)


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth View Post
super strength covers 90% of super heroes
guns covers 4%
sword covers 3%

everything else is maybe 5 characters per powerset

so you could add stretching for the 4 characters that have it (including Super Skrull), flame powers for the 8 characters that have it (including the Elementals)

but there are no other comic book staple powersets - there are just iconic characters that have powers
...I think I found something below Level 0.


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth View Post
or a lot less. So you think your sample is sufficient, but is skewed towards the characters you know.
Just because you don't of certain subjects does not make those subjects not exist.

That's as daft as saying that 50% of all fruit is Apples while 50% is Oranges, just because you've never seen a Banana. Your ignorance doesn't make the Banana not exist.


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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I think they need to re-make the old staples so we have alternatives forms of these powers:

  • ice swords
  • fire swords
  • stone mallets

... so that we can choose between unarmed or armed versions of every melee attack (for consistency).


 

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I think the one mentioned that I'd most like to see is Multiplicity. (I even made a version of it in the Power Set Suggestions subforum.) I had a more natural approach to the 'blast' power--throwing crates and barrels. (And flaming barrels!)

Magnetism and a mad science-based control set would also be cool. I'm also liking Super Speed Melee/Defense. Growth would be super-awesome, but alas, not likely.

One that hasn't been mentioned, but might be cool, is vibration blast. Kind of an obscure power, it has potential.


Total Characters: 120
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I think the idea of shapeshifting (ala Clayface) is a cool idea. Warhammer Online had a class that did that, the Marauder, which was fun to play when I first tried out the game. And with how they are handling Bio Armour, I could see them applying a similar thing to the shape shifter and have customisable in terms of look (similar to how you can with Spines). I could imagine it following something like this:

Tier 1 - ST melee attack
Tier 2 - ST melee attack
Tier 3 - Shapeshift
Tier 4 - Cone attack (only available when Shapeshift form is active)
Tier 5 - Stronger ST melee attack
Tier 6 - PBAoE attack (only available when Shapeshift form is active)
Tier 7 - ST ranged attack (only available when Shapeshift form is active)
Tier 8 - Advanced Shapeshift
Tier 9 - Powerful ST melee attack

How I see it would be the character would perform basic attack movements (such as punches from SS, element sword melee sweeps and spins etc) and when Shapeshift is active it will replace the users hands with the weapon shape chosen. I have said 'only available when Shapeshift form is active as they wouldn't make sense without it (and would work in a similar way to needing Momentum).

The basic attacks cause low smashing damage and could gain the following from the different shapeshifting forms which would work like the swap ammo toggles (these are just examples):
* Sword - adds additional lethal damage to attacks
* Hammer - adds additional smashing damage to attacks (highest bonus of all forms)
* Spiked Mace - adds additional smashing damage (less than hammer) and minor lethal DoT
* Rapier - adds additional lethal damage (less than sword) and minor defence debuff

Advanced Shapeshifting forms could add additional benefits to attacks depending on the Shapeshift form (again just examples and would work like swap ammo):
* Lethal form - "You enhance your shapeshifted weapon into its most lethal form to cause additional damage" - boosts the damage caused by the Shapeshift form
* Finesse form - "You enahnce your shapeshift weapon into its most finely tuned form to improve its overall effectiveness" - Sword gains minor lethal DoT and defence debuff, Hammer gains chance of KD, Spiked Mace gains chance of stun, Rapier gains Resistance debuff
* Fluid form - "You enhance your shapeshifted weapon into a more fluid form to enhance its speed and defensive capabilities" - minor amount of global recharge plus Sword/Rapier gains Lethal/Melee defence, Hammer/Spiked Mace gain Lethal/Smashing resistance (these are always on rather than per attack)

One good way of doing it like this is that you can pair it with whatever secondary you like rather than having it as an AT


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
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Power armor and lots of missing synergy. such as energy control for doms and now a lack of water manipulation with the recent water blast set.


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Originally Posted by cursedsorcerer View Post
Iron Man-esque weaponized suits. (Although that might be hard to make into a power set in addition to being a potential TM violation waiting to happen.)

I would also love Metal Armor/Metal Melee powersets.

And Light Blast.
Don't think TM violation is the problem... the problem is that Iron Man has a bit of super strength, a power blast, AND protective armor. Trying to do that sort of thing in the current power set up isn't going to happen, though I would like to have that option. Same goes for generally hand to hand characters that have some ranged attacks (Capt America throws his sheild, Thor throws his hammmer - and if you really piss him off will bring lightning into play, Superman has lasers coming out of his eyes, etc.

Personally, I'd like to see a new Archetype that would support such concepts. Yes, there is Boxing for Blasters, but I've tried it, and frankly found that it's pretty useless.


 

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I believe the comic book staples we're missing are the ones typically found in the very center of the book.


Which also gives me an idea for a ranged set: Staple Guns.


 

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Originally Posted by Tannim222 View Post
Some of the powers that I see missing would be:

Elasticity: the ability to stretch limbs to attack, immoblize, hold foes
Impossible, would break the toons... as said a few times in this thread alone.
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Animal Shape Shifting: - in truth I see this more of an epic AT than power set - changing into different animals each having a subset of different attacks and travel powers. Example: Jungle Cat / Wolf - beast run power attacks include claw strike, bite, and double-claw rakes. Gorilla - super jump attacks include several different punches w/ stuns side effects. Serpent - super speed, coil (crushing damage chance for hold), venom bite - high damage attack with chance to paralyze and debuff resistance
What a great idea, but weren't the EATs... well you know, kinda bound into the backstory? What faction do we have in game that can change into different animals?
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Stick-Fighting
Like Staff Fighting, or more like the Shillelagh we have for War Mace?
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Whip Melee
(Most likely) Won't happen, waaaaaayyyy too much work. That's why I suggested Tentacles.
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Nunchucks
ehhh, maybe not
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Thrown Weapons
As long as they explode (Grenades, like the various Goblins) I'm all for this.
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Missing Travel Powers: wall walking (not necessarily wall crawling), grappling gun / rope / whip swing
Impossible with the current engine.
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Originally Posted by ThePill View Post
OOoh... with an Ammo swap type toggles for each element.

I think it might have to be it's own AT...

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Originally Posted by Noyjitat View Post
and now a lack of water manipulation with the recent water blast set.
yeah, it's not like this stuff would take time to make. It is widely known that the devs just have to snap their fingers...
Give Water Manipulation some time, I'm sure it's already on the way... or at least planned.


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Originally Posted by Zaloopa View Post
for a real superspeed powerset the attacks would have to animate VERY quickly so I'm not sure what sort of balance issues that would cause.
I can see this powerset having fast activation times and fast recharge times, but relatively low damage to make up for it. Because you don't hit like a truck, you hit like a swarm of bees. They key to this set is sustainability; with low endurance costs, you can keep up a barrage of attacks all day.

Its build up power could even add a placate proc to attacks for a short time, to simulate the target not knowing what hit them. And of course its heavy hitter, Ramming Speed, yeah that would be something like Shield Charge.

Oooh... I know. Another teleport power called Fly By, where you teleport to a location, and make an attack against each target between the two points.


 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Just because you don't of certain subjects does not make those subjects not exist.

That's as daft as saying that 50% of all fruit is Apples while 50% is Oranges, just because you've never seen a Banana. Your ignorance doesn't make the Banana not exist.
you are correct. I made 2 mistakes in my estimation.

First, I lumped all non-weapon melee as super strength. While lots have it, martial arts and other types of melee are common. And super strength does not cover the style of a lot of characters.

And the ranged attacks do add up.

So I withdraw my claim, and have instead a challenge.

For any comic book staples besides punching (super strength, martial arts, or otherwise) list the powerset and name 10 characters in Marvel or DC that use that powerset.


 

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Damage Resistance and Energy Projection (Generally known as an Armor/Blast hybrid):

Amazo
Apocolypse
Darkseid
Black Adam
Captain Marvel
Ms. Marvel
Miss Martian
Nova
Martian Manhunter
Ultron
Iron Man
War Machine


Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm View Post
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

 

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Invulnerability and Super Strength.

Oh, wait. That's a different superhero MMO -- the MMO that trades on a brand name that was built by the most famous Invuln/SS character ever, but an MMO that nevertheless forces players who want to emulate him to become Ice tanks.

Haha. Sorry, it's still funny.


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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

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Or fire! My Supergirl-esque one on there used a lot of fire attacks for some reason. I never could figure that out.


Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm View Post
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

 

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I'm pretty sure Growth/shrink is implausible within the game mechanics. Growth would be limited to the point of uselessness by the indoor maps, and Shrink would be predominantly useless in a stat combat game. I don't see it bringing anything interesting to the table, gameplay wise.

I suppose at best I could see it as a weird sort of defense set that would allow you to switch between defense based protection (shrink) and resistance/absorb protection (growth) But to have both, it would have to be less than outstanding at either to avoid making other sets obsolete, and the question of hit boxes becomes a serious problem, especially in indoor maps. (if you make yourself too small, then getting stuck in cracks could become a problem, and getting bigger would keep you from getting through doors. Unless your hit box doesn't change size, in which case you're clipping like nurtz.


Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
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Honestly, speedsters don't really fit in melee the way melee works in this game. Melee characters in this game stand next to their opponents and punch them. A melee set wouldn't work for a real speedster feel because running up to somebody, and then standing still while you punch them, doesn't feel very speedstery.

I'd suggest super speed as more of a blaster/control type of set, with "blasts" that are effectively targeted teleports, or at least animate as teleports. I don't know how plausible that is, but I'm thinking something similar to the vorpal judgement, expanded to a full set. If it could have your actual character model appear for the single-target strikes or something, that'd be ideal. Controls would involve things like creating whirlwinds, or stuns/confuses built around the idea that you're moving so fast, your opponents are dazed and lost trying to keep up.

Actually, stylistically, dominators might be a really natural fit for a set like that, with it's ranged/melee mix. Melee attacks would be like suped up flurry or the original storm kick animation, ranged attacks would be similar to vorpal judgement or shield charge style teleport attacks.


I'd also like to add my voice to the list of people asking for a wind powerset.


Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!

 

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Originally Posted by Heavensrun View Post
I'm pretty sure Growth/shrink is implausible within the game mechanics. Growth would be limited to the point of uselessness by the indoor maps, and Shrink would be predominantly useless in a stat combat game. I don't see it bringing anything interesting to the table, gameplay wise.
Well I had an idea where the set was a melee set where as you grow larger, your attacks become more cones and aoe's. As you shrink, your attacks become more single-target and more accurate. On the inverse, as you grow, your resistance to damage increases, but your defense decreases. As you shrink, your resist drops, but your defense increases (in the vein of agility).


"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."

 

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While I can't think of any Comicbook staples missing I can think of some powerset types that are missing. Namely multi element melee and pets.
Like trick arrow or dual pistols.


 

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Originally Posted by LeperDave1 View Post
Don't think TM violation is the problem... the problem is that Iron Man has a bit of super strength, a power blast, AND protective armor. Trying to do that sort of thing in the current power set up isn't going to happen, though I would like to have that option. Same goes for generally hand to hand characters that have some ranged attacks (Capt America throws his sheild, Thor throws his hammmer - and if you really piss him off will bring lightning into play, Superman has lasers coming out of his eyes, etc.

Personally, I'd like to see a new Archetype that would support such concepts. Yes, there is Boxing for Blasters, but I've tried it, and frankly found that it's pretty useless.
Closest I've come to creating a Power Armor character (my main guy and namesake) uses Energy Blast / Energy Manipulation / Force Mastery, along with the Flight, Fighting, and Stealth pools. Add in the appropriate Incarnate powers and you can do a decent "power armor". I'm always tweaking that build.


EDIT: Oh and on the topic: My son has been requesting what I'd call Primate Mastery (he had watched the last Planet of the Apes movie) for Masterminds.


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Originally Posted by Nos482 View Post
Impossible, would break the toons... as said a few times in this thread alone.
I know that, but I was simply answering the question. There are quite a few elastic, stretching heroes and villians out there and its something we don't have. The question didn't ask "what comic book stable powers do we have that are only possible with the current engine".

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What a great idea, but weren't the EATs... well you know, kinda bound into the backstory? What faction do we have in game that can change into different animals?
Currently, none. It doesn't mean that this new archetype has to have a back story. It could simply be something made and sold on the market. It's probably going to happen at some point anyway.

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Like Staff Fighting, or more like the Shillelagh we have for War Mace?
No, more like Filipino Stick fighting. Though the more that I've thought about it, a simple substitute would be to add batons, wooden sticks, night sticks, tonfas, etc... models to dual blades.

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(Most likely) Won't happen, waaaaaayyyy too much work. That's why I suggested Tentacles.
It's not entirely impossible. Just as with dual pistols first appearing with masterminds, eventually the entire powerset was created for players to use, so can whip melee. Is it more work, yup, but within the realm of possibility.

Regarding thrown weapons, I meant along the lines of knives, shuriken, grenades. There could be some that explode, like exploding shuriken. Or even alternate models for the sets.

Walk walking isn't "Impossible with the current engine." There are complications with it, probably moreso now because I'm betting there's lack of documentation on it. Remember the BAB shark haning out on the portal corp wall?

I'll admit that I have no idea about the probability of grappling swinging or some other varient, but there were many people who claimed it was also impossible to customize powers. Things can change.


 

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Originally Posted by Tannim222 View Post
I know that, but I was simply answering the question. There are quite a few elastic, stretching heroes and villians out there and its something we don't have. The question didn't ask "what comic book stable powers do we have that are only possible with the current engine.
"Quite a few" reads as: Mr. Fantastic, Elongated Man, Plastic Man. Maaaaybe the Venom/Carnage family. So...that quantitative statement is purely subjective. I, for one, wouldn't call it a *staple* comic book power. I'd use it if it were ever implemented, sure, but as the game engine exists now it's not possible.

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Originally Posted by Tannim222 View Post
No, more like Filipino Stick fighting. Though the more that I've thought about it, a simple substitute would be to add batons, wooden sticks, night sticks, tonfas, etc... models to dual blades.
Boom. Give sticks weapon choices to Dual Blades (and maybe the other sword sets? o.0) and suddenly we've got: City of Nightwing!



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Originally Posted by Tannim222 View Post
It's not entirely impossible. Just as with dual pistols first appearing with masterminds, eventually the entire powerset was created for players to use, so can whip melee. Is it more work, yup, but within the realm of possibility.

Regarding thrown weapons, I meant along the lines of knives, shuriken, grenades. There could be some that explode, like exploding shuriken. Or even alternate models for the sets.

Walk walking isn't "Impossible with the current engine." There are complications with it, probably moreso now because I'm betting there's lack of documentation on it. Remember the BAB shark haning out on the portal corp wall?

I'll admit that I have no idea about the probability of grappling swinging or some other varient, but there were many people who claimed it was also impossible to customize powers. Things can change.
Wall-crawling, grappling lines, swinging, shield-throwing, and elasticity: Impossible with the way the game currently works. No ifs, ands or buts about it. Impossible *forever*? Maybe not, because (as is so often stated) power customization was once also called impossible with the engine at the time. The engine changed, and thusly did the options.

As for whips? The three whip powers for Demon Summoning took as much animation/production/coding time as an entire powerset, so...do the math. Not labor or profit-efficient at the time.


Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm View Post
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Uh....no? No, not true at all. All current EATs say "Sorry, you're wrong." Assault sets with blasts and melee? Check. Armours? Check. Not weak? Double check.

Argument: INVALID. And has been since for ever (or at least since EATs came out)
With Kheldians, you can't use your best armor and blasts at the same time. Arachnos troops are insanely OP if built right and should not be used as a baseline for a whole new AT. In fact, lessons learned from that ought to prevent any Blast/Armor AT from ever coming to fruition.


-STEELE =)


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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post
With Kheldians, you can't use your best armor and blasts at the same time. Arachnos troops are insanely OP if built right and should not be used as a baseline for a whole new AT. In fact, lessons learned from that ought to prevent any Blast/Armor AT from ever coming to fruition.
Eclipse is the best Warshade armor and you can use it while in Nova, after having already doubled up on Mires and capped your damage.


 

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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post
With Kheldians, you can't use your best armor and blasts at the same time. Arachnos troops are insanely OP if built right and should not be used as a baseline for a whole new AT. In fact, lessons learned from that ought to prevent any Blast/Armor AT from ever coming to fruition.
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Originally Posted by Mad Grim View Post
Eclipse is the best Warshade armor and you can use it while in Nova, after having already doubled up on Mires and capped your damage.

Ah, my answer is already stated. My Crab can't do half the stuff my Nictus can.
Most ATs, if built right with the right sets, is freaking insane. That argument isn't one, it's a known truth that is true for a number of damage dealing ATs and even some support ATs. So, if anything, IOs are overpowered, not ATs, and thus stops nothing from being created.


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.