CoH2. Will it ever happen?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-07-22 13:49 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I don't think that the player base is big enough to support 2 versions of the same game.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
^A CoH2 would be advertised like this game was before it launched, as, yes, this game's population is too small to support a second game alone.
How do you expect us to answer that?
As to 'Do you expect to see CoH2?', then yes, I do, and speculate it's the 'secret project' so many devs have been moved too. Make note I don't expect to see it for a long time, though.
Goodbye. Not to the game, but the players. Goodbye. Everyone, remember to have fun. That's all I can say.
A true sequel to CoH seems unlikely.
A spiritual successor to CoH (new universe) is possible. Paragon is working on another MMO now and I'd like to see them tackle something other than bog-standard high fantasy but it remains to be seen just exactly what it is they are doing.
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It already happened.|
Originally Posted by Fista
Well will it? I like this game universe. I like that it's casual friendly. I'd like to see them tackle this with new tech and see what they come up with.
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You're playing it now, they just called it 'Freedom' instead of 'CoH 2'.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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This.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I don't think that the player base is big enough to support 2 versions of the same game.
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They could try making a console COH but I personally would not play CoH2 unless I got to "uplift" all my current characters/bases/everything into tne new game.
They are better off just adding to this game and working toward a new, different genre of game with their current staff.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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Me thinks that's hitting the nail on the head.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
It already happened.
You're playing it now, they just called it 'Freedom' instead of 'CoH 2'. |
If you're not happy with where CoH is, try one of the other Supers MMOs that are out there.
Probably not.
The time when a CoH 2 would have been viable is long past. The property is cold now and the games industry itself is in bad shape. The large budget MMO as we know it is dead and the market is saturated with other super hero F2Ps. The development team at Paragon Studios are already at work on another game based on an apparently new IP and maintaining this game, so there's not even anyone to work on a CoH 2.
That being said, I'd like a CoH 2 to happen. I'd like the IP to have a future. But I don't think it does beyond CoH Freedom.
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Considering that they've said the new project is an "exciting new IP" that pretty much eliminates it from being CoH 2.
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Originally Posted by Bullet Barrage
^A CoH2 would be advertised like this game was before it launched, as, yes, this game's population is too small to support a second game alone.
How do you expect us to answer that? As to 'Do you expect to see CoH2?', then yes, I do, and speculate it's the 'secret project' so many devs have been moved too. Make note I don't expect to see it for a long time, though. |
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Ah, didn't hear that part.
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Considering that they've said the new project is an "exciting new IP" that pretty much eliminates it from being CoH 2.
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Goodbye. Not to the game, but the players. Goodbye. Everyone, remember to have fun. That's all I can say.
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When people talk about City of Heroes 2, they're usually referring to a brand new game built from scratch. It doesn't matter how much you modify City of Heroes, unless you rip the game open and replace major components - and that won't happen to an existing game - it'll remain an old game. You can extend its life, possibly indefinitely, but there will always be things you simply cannot do.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
It already happened.
You're playing it now, they just called it 'Freedom' instead of 'CoH 2'. |
A City of Heroes 2 would, presumably, be a brand new game with a brand new combat system using current generation graphics and with all the old lessons learned implemented from the get-go. And it would very likely tank so hard we'll MC Hammer would go green with envy. A new game means a new start which an established playerbase will very likely be unwilling to do, and it means a shockingly smaller amount of content. If it's a new game, there's no porting over - you make everything from scratch, and you're trying to replicate eight years... Ten years of hard work. Hell, we're probably close to 12 years now, considering a game-footage trailer for the game was released in early 2001.
Personally, I hope this version of City of Heroes will be around for a good while longer, but a brand new release that tries to replace it cannot work.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Of the games that I know of that produced "sequels", all of them ended up cannibalizing and splitting the existing player base of the parent game. It's the same reason that City of Villains tanked, when it was launched as a separate game from City of Heroes. It didn't generate much new business, it mainly just fractured the blue player base.
Sequels are not a viable way to build on a franchise, at least if past history is any judge. Not that it's preventing SOE from trying it yet again, but their biggest expansion of their Norrath IP was not from the spinoff MMO's but from the console RTS game "Champions of Norrath". I've thought at various times that Paragon Studios might benefit from licensing a console game based on their IP but not a MMO or even strictly a RPG. What that game would be I'd have no idea, though with the various CoH ripoffs on Facebook it seems that there's a viable market there for City of Heroes on the social networking platform.
Nethergoat has the right of it - We are already playing "CoH2". We were playing it even before Freedom launched, really. Freedom just put a kind of official imprimatur on it.
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Well I think it will be. Hasn't Freedom been a financial success? I know I've spent a LOT more money on this game in the past year since Freedom. (Which is fine I wanted to)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
When people talk about City of Heroes 2, they're usually referring to a brand new game built from scratch. It doesn't matter how much you modify City of Heroes, unless you rip the game open and replace major components - and that won't happen to an existing game - it'll remain an old game. You can extend its life, possibly indefinitely, but there will always be things you simply cannot do.
A City of Heroes 2 would, presumably, be a brand new game with a brand new combat system using current generation graphics and with all the old lessons learned implemented from the get-go. And it would very likely tank so hard we'll MC Hammer would go green with envy. A new game means a new start which an established playerbase will very likely be unwilling to do, and it means a shockingly smaller amount of content. If it's a new game, there's no porting over - you make everything from scratch, and you're trying to replicate eight years... Ten years of hard work. Hell, we're probably close to 12 years now, considering a game-footage trailer for the game was released in early 2001. Personally, I hope this version of City of Heroes will be around for a good while longer, but a brand new release that tries to replace it cannot work. |
Really if there is little chance of it. the mmo market isnt what it was,as johnny said, and we have seen 2 superhero mmos that came after coh fail to get any real traction in the market. I just dont see it happening. on the plus side coh has been more active in adding content post freedom than they were in some time, so i gotta say, i wish we could grapple, and throw objects and people, and do targeted movement attacks (tackles and flying kicks for example) but coh is growing in ways one generally does not associate with 8 year old games. and im pretty happy, especially given the recent pool customization news.
also to echo slick, sequels on mmos tend to do poorly because the people that enjoy the first game keep playing the first game, already being attached and established in that world. this would likely be stronger in coh since the heavy customization has allowed us to make characters that many of us have become very attached to. A lot of players might not want to move on to the new setting, and the playerbase would likely be too small to be financially viable. one sequel may buck the trend but only because it is so drastically different from its predecessor, that only the lore remains the same, everything else changed drastically.( ok lineage 2 did well too, but again, drastic change from overhead isometric to 3d diku mud style game)
Im not saying it cant happen, because i would not be in a position to know that information, but if i were a betting man..I wouldn't mind superpacks (kidding kidding) if i were a betting man, id bet against it.
They have a new system ready to go, but to date they've been unable to compile it due to all the text errors in the code.
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I'm pretty sure that's what whacko Jacko was trying to do when he made that other superhero game. And, well, we see how that worked out.
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Originally Posted by Creole Ned
A true sequel to CoH seems unlikely.
A spiritual successor to CoH (new universe) is possible. Paragon is working on another MMO now and I'd like to see them tackle something other than bog-standard high fantasy but it remains to be seen just exactly what it is they are doing. |
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Personally, I hope this version of City of Heroes will be around for a good while longer, but a brand new release that tries to replace it cannot work.
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And to the person who was saying the gaming industry is in bad shape right now your right.
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Why is the game industry in bad shape?
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Originally Posted by BricksTown Thug15
This
And to the person who was saying the gaming industry is in bad shape right now your right. |
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Like someone had mentioned the MMO market isn't what it used to be.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Why is the game industry in bad shape?
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As for gaming in general I guess that could boil down to opinion and what you like..
So then the consensus is that the game will continue on for a few more years, slip into maintenance mode and fade away, the IP will gather dust and that will be the end?
ThatÂ’s a shame. I guess my grand kids will have to listen to my stories of the Golden Age of Paragon, The City of Heroes instead of playing the latest iteration.
Something witty and profound
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Where did you get that idea?|
Originally Posted by Fista
So then the consensus is that the game will continue on for a few more years, slip into maintenance mode and fade away, the IP will gather dust and that will be the end?
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As long as the game is profitable, development will continue. I've never understood this idea that some people have that anything "old" necessarily will eventually just die. We're talking games, not puppies, and MMO's in particular tend to find a steady state level of subscriptions and stay there forever unless they somehow become horribly out of date. Even with that, EQ and Ultima Online are still around and still getting new content. I've never played Meridian 59 or some of that vintage of game but some of them are still around also.
Why does a "CoH2" have to be a new game? A few years ago, it was "impossible" to do player programmed stories, power customizations, and modern high-rez graphics. Heck, Water Blast was a powerset that was "never going to happen". All of those things are here now, because the devs continue to improve and update the game and the game engine. Sure, it would be nice if the foundation could be rebuilt, but making a new game to get that is a proven money-loser.
As long as CoH continues to generate a healthy profit, it will continue to live and grow. Heck, NCSoft has already shut down lots of their MMO properties that were failing to support themselves, even some high profile games. They've continued to invest in this game. That says something about it and it's staying power. It also says something about NCSoft's corporate policy - If CoH fails to the point of going into "maintenance mode" and fading away, it will likely be shut down long before the fading away point became a possibility.
If you're not turning a profit and there's not reasonable expectation of turning one in the near future, then you're gone. CoH2 won't even be a possibility.
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I wouldn't say the MMO industry is in trouble because of that. The industry has always gone through "gluts" of certain types of games, then those types have died off. Sidescrollers were everywhere for a long time, replaced by fighters ( Street Fighter, etc ), which died off to be replaced by FPS games. MMOs have sort of squeezed in between the cracks and gotten their own glut, but oversaturation is kind of wearing them out.|
Originally Posted by BricksTown Thug15
Like someone had mentioned the MMO market isn't what it used to be.
As for gaming in general I guess that could boil down to opinion and what you like.. |
I don't think MMOs will ever actually die, though. I think the whole concept of large-scale online games is pretty much the inevitable future of gaming. However, the "Everquest/WoW model" of MMOs is likely to fizzle out relatively soon.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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For a number of reasons. Cottage rule for one. Synapse said something during last week's to the effect that "if we we're doing Fire Blast today, like in CoH 2, there are much more interesting mechanics we could use."|
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
Why does a "CoH2" have to be a new game?
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Meaning, the set as it is is stuck the way it is.
Indeed, there are far too many examples of things that could be done better today with what they know now but can't because they can't justify redoing them or because the cottage rule is in play. As another example, Street Justice demonstrates just how far animation has come since Super Strength and Martial Arts were created, yet those sets can't look as good because they wont/can't redesign the sets with new animations and mechanics because of the cottage rule and because they want to sell new sets.
There are a lot of things players desperately want that aren't feasible in CoH but could be in a new game with a new engine and starting with a clean slate. I wish Scrapper combat was exciting and fluid as Arkham City. I wish I could piledrive people off buildings and throw tanks around like in Hulk. That's never going to happen in this game. A sequel at least offers the possibility and hope for something better. You may not want those things, but I'll bet you want something that's not possible in CoH but could be in a CoH 2.
And, face facts: Freedom bought the game some time, but we're still bleeding out. Eventually, players are going to get tired with new hats and variations on weapons sets and mechanics, and the game will only get worse looking and worse playing compared to improving standards as time goes on. Even if Paragon Studios' new game isn't even in the same genre, we're bound to lose some people to it. CoH had a good run, but we have to acknowledge, that in all likelihood, this is it for the IP.
"Every day from this day on is a gift. Use it well"
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This game will survive due to the diversity of the play base and the creativity of the said base and those who work on the game. The key is to give the players what they need and works with in the game and not what they want due to some times what is wanted and what would work is not the same. As for the game engine it is dated and does need a lot of fixes and the code its self may only be able to be fixed an peace at a time. But i am only guessing i for one will play till i die and on my tome stone will be I would rather be playing COH.
Some of my suggestions from posts i have done
boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=195762&highlight=dbhellfist
boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=278178&highlight=dbhellfist
Here is all My toons
http://img261.imagevenue.com/gallery...9625081-24.php
I'd rather they just made a new engine for the current game. A game with less of the limitations than this one currently has would be great.
Well will it? I like this game universe. I like that it's casual friendly. I'd like to see them tackle this with new tech and see what they come up with.
Something witty and profound