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Not only that- Wretch is a cop, Seer Marino is dead. Calvin Scott's a nutter and never married Aurora. Among other things. Yes, some big differences in addition to the small ones.|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
What?! Most of the Earth-as-we-know-it, billions upon billions of people, doesn't even exist in Praetoria, most of the Earth's population was killed in the Hamidon Wars. Not existing is pretty radically different. Recluse is dead. Ghost Widow is alive. Massive differences.
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And Praetorian Hamidon will turn out to be some shlub named Hamilton, I bet.
Magisterium finally getting patched...
The multiverse in CoH is pretty much like Sliders. Parallel earths with divergent timelines based on different outcomes of events and choices. Sometimes small things, like everyone's eyes are a different shade of blue, and sometimes big things like the Nemesis finally succeeded in his plan and wiped out the earth leaving nothing but automatons and his body in a coffin.
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Huh?
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Not really, again it's still the same basic story with one critical difference. In the case of Recluse he was killed at the Well of Furies instead of drinking from it. As with most of the other major characters it's a single point that radically changes his life without affecting much else.
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Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
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Sorry poor wording there. I probably should have said anyONE else. The point I'm trying to make is that despite Preatoria being wildly divergent in it's history every single NAMED character follows exactly the same basic story. They are born at the same time. They develop the same basic powers. They have the same basic events happen to them they just react differently (for example Doppleganger kills Justin's parents).|
Originally Posted by Premonitions
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It just bugs me that the people in Preatoria are to similar given the differences in the history. How come none of the major characters were not born due to the fact that their parents where killed during the Hamidon Wars or the nuking of Los Angeles. We've got a timeline with major diversions from Primal Earth except that the major characters are still the same and that kind of bugs me.
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From a "realistic" standpoint, it's strange, but when you consider the nature of the City of Heroes universe, it's less surprising. We know thanks to Cimerora that certain heroes, even those that aren't Incarnates, are sort of destined to be there, for lack of better phrase. So the fact that certain characters reappear despite how strange their presence is has less to do with the general likelihood/unlikelihood, and more to do with the fact that Fate (or the Well, or whatever) has declared them the "major characters of reality", or the like.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
It just bugs me that the people in Preatoria are to similar given the differences in the history. How come none of the major characters were not born due to the fact that their parents where killed during the Hamidon Wars or the nuking of Los Angeles. We've got a timeline with major diversions from Primal Earth except that the major characters are still the same and that kind of bugs me.
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This is due to the most powerful fundamental force in every universe:|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
It just bugs me that the people in Preatoria are to similar given the differences in the history.
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Literary license.
Fans of the the Firefly series once speculated on the "map of the 'verse" and speed of travel in that universe. When asked, Joss said Serenity traveled at the "speed of drama." He didn't let the laws of physics dictate the story he wanted to tell, he just focused on what was necessary for a good story and ignored the niggling details.
People that like to build out a whole universe in great detail and expect everything to fit are bound to be disappointed by that, but that's the way it works. If the devs wanted to tell a tale with each familiar signature characters having a mirror opposite to show how things could have gone, that's their story, and they need all of the signature heroes' mirror selves to live for it.
I23 was pretty underwhelming. So I24 doesn't need to do much to excite me. Just hoping the Blaster revamp finally does the job.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Good point. Also, in the Primal dimension the Menders follow Mender Silos, and Mender Silos probably doesn't exist in the Praetorian dimension for obvious reasons. If the Menders exist at all, it would have to be in a significantly altered state. That could have significantly altered or eliminated much of the effects of Ouroboros in Praetoria.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
It would have had to have branched off long before that, otherwise they would have had a Nemesis just like Primal Earth since he predates 1914.
My pet theory is that the point of deviation between Primal and Praetorian Earth started on a little island named Cimerora. You may have heard of it? On Primal Earth a bunch of supers and 5th Column, went back in time and changed a bunch of stuff, causing a stable time loop that also resulted many changes reverberating forward. On Praetorian Earth; no 5th Column, no time loop. History played out as it "should" have. Some things that may only have occurred on Primal Earth because of the time travel shenanigans: -Romulus staged a failed coup. I presume he wouldn't have tried hadn't the 5th backed him. -Sister Airlia was able to get in tight with Imperious. Without villain help, she may not have been able to. -Imperious and Romulus were killed in a ritual by Sister Airlia. Wade says as much in SSA1, so I expect an upcoming villain arc where you help this occur. -Mot ended up in the New World. -Cimerora was brought to the attention of Talons of Vengeance. This may still have occurred in Praetoria but was delayed/hastened by us on Primal Earth. -Marcus Valerius leaves Cimerora and dies in the new world. And probably more things to come. |
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Blaster Fix!|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I23 was pretty underwhelming. So I24 doesn't need to do much to excite me. Just hoping the Blaster revamp finally does the job.
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Blaster Fix!
Blaster Fix!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I know and as I said earlier I understand why the devs do it that way (it makes for a better story) but that doesn't stop it bugging me. Everyone has things about the CoH lore that annoy them and things that don't. The death of Miss Liberty in Who Will Die spawned a huge rant thread about Women in Refrigerators but it didn't really bother me to the same degree whereas this bothers me but not other people |
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
This is due to the most powerful fundamental force in every universe:
Literary license. |
.Everyone has different opinions on different topics. Speaking for myself I LIKE Parallel Universes they are a lot of fun (heck my main's back-story is that he's a dimensional explorer). I just have me own opinions on what makes sense to me and what doesn't. Preatoria as bizarro-goatee-universe makes sense to me. Preatoria as bizzaro-goatee-universe-excpet-for-hamidon makes less sense.
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It might make sense to you, but it's not TRUE. It was officially retconned to NOT be a mirror universe. Someone who is evil in one universe can still be evil in the other, they can turn out to be almost exactly they same (e.g. Malaise) or completely different.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Preatoria as bizarro-goatee-universe makes sense to me.
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I really should do something about this signature.
From the CoH twitter:
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| Changes are coming to blasters in Issue 24. Tune in to Twitch.TV tomorrow at 10:30AM PDT to find out more. twitch.tv/paragonstudios |
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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That should be interesting. I might actually drag myself out of bed for that. I'm most interested to see what players' reaction will be to adding [redacted], [redacted], and especially [redacted] to [redacted]. Although making [redacted] into something like [redacted] when your [redacted] is [redacted] will also be interesting. Especially for /devices. And even I don't know what Arbiter Hawk is thinking about adding to [redacted], [redacted], and [redacted] since they don't [redacted].
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
From the CoH twitter:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That should be interesting. I might actually drag myself out of bed for that. I'm most interested to see what players' reaction will be to adding [redacted], [redacted], and especially [redacted] to [redacted]. Although making [redacted] into something like [redacted] when your [redacted] is [redacted] will also be interesting. Especially for /devices. And even I don't know what Arbiter Hawk is thinking about adding to [redacted], [redacted], and [redacted] since they don't [redacted].
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I heard snipes will be changed so that they'll actually do DPS in the positive numbers. That'd be great because I'm sick of healing my enemies.
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I doubt there would be an Ouroboros organization in Praetoria since they all came from the distant future and depending how this stuff with Praetorian Hamidon plays out, Praetoria may not have much of a future if you don't have chloroplasts.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Good point. Also, in the Primal dimension the Menders follow Mender Silos, and Mender Silos probably doesn't exist in the Praetorian dimension for obvious reasons. If the Menders exist at all, it would have to be in a significantly altered state. That could have significantly altered or eliminated much of the effects of Ouroboros in Praetoria.
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hey quit stealing my bit. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That should be interesting. I might actually drag myself out of bed for that. I'm most interested to see what players' reaction will be to adding [redacted], [redacted], and especially [redacted] to [redacted]. Although making [redacted] into something like [redacted] when your [redacted] is [redacted] will also be interesting. Especially for /devices. And even I don't know what Arbiter Hawk is thinking about adding to [redacted], [redacted], and [redacted] since they don't [redacted].
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Yeah that was kinda my point. If it was bizarro-goatee-universe I'd be fine with it. I find it's current incarnation problematic because it's to different to be as similar as it is.|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
It might make sense to you, but it's not TRUE. It was officially retconned to NOT be a mirror universe. Someone who is evil in one universe can still be evil in the other, they can turn out to be almost exactly they same (e.g. Malaise) or completely different.
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Or to put it another way. It's to similar for me to take seriously and not similar enough for me to find amusing. For me at least it's in the Uncanny Valley of Dimensional Universes.
Well my two cent for hamidon and timeline and dimensions argument.
First although it is a similiar alternative timelined dimension do we know what date it is in Praetoria when we made first contact? Just a hypothesis and probably wrong but maybe we are seeing a preatoria at a different date than our heroes/villians dimension. I didn't delve too much lore about this so maybe there is some in-game but I am not aware of any.
Second there are many divergence in people in Preatoria especially with revealing of First and Night wards, Pendragon For example is Hero 1's counter part and he was a black Knight guarding Eternal Prison instead of a tight wearing hero but he was not direct reverse of his Primal counterpart. Burke was a Taskmaster of Dredges he was still greedy blasted thing he is on the spirit side of things. Calvin Scott thought he was Aurora's husband while he was not on preatoria but on our side he was really her husband and even led a TF to save both Sister Psycke and Aurora from that curse.
Third do we have solid in-game lore about hamidon? All I can remember was; Hamidon is related to devouring earth and they are a group trying to save earth from polution in their own extreme way. However when someone in-game talks about hamidon they almost always mention preatorian one noone talks about primal one. Is it becuase of story focus? I doubt it. IIRC Prometheus clearly states that noone can beat hamidon, not even if Cole became wells champion he could beat hamidon. This made me wonder what if Hamidon is an ascended and coexist on all dimensions at the same time and much rularuu he crated the DE? Maybe Hamidon is a little like Rularuu? Divided into some sort of aspects and most powerful of among them was on Preatoria while most weak in Primal?
Too many questions need to be answered before we can decide a conclusion who knows there are some solid arguments in here like hamidon corssing dimensions and times and such.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I doubt there would be an Ouroboros organization in Praetoria since they all came from the distant future and depending how this stuff with Praetorian Hamidon plays out, Praetoria may not have much of a future if you don't have chloroplasts.
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So the Battalion is Praetorian Ouroboros?|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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Just when we thought we were done...
I'm still hoping for Power Pool/APP/PPP customization =\
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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I like the new logon screen for I23....o.O and the new ways to travel and... o.O
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I23 was pretty underwhelming. So I24 doesn't need to do much to excite me. Just hoping the Blaster revamp finally does the job.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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I'm not entirely convinced yet there are any "aliens".
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I think that the Hamidon thing is just down to 2 different triggers - the slow burn and the sudden snap.
We don't have any info on the age of Hamidon Pasalima, so it's quite possible that the Primal one was older when he became a monster - it would be a slow build up of seeing environmental damage that finally turned him into a supervillain - while the Praetorian one could have been quite young when he turned, with the nuclear war being the sudden snap for him - the transformation happening at 2 different satges of their lives could also explain the different look and powers of the 2 creatures.
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