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Use KB and KD alot and a very simple cure for that range problem is Taunt. I smack the npc and send him for a ride buy my teammates time and then taunt them back to me. If your having a kb/kd issue call a Tank who taunts problem solve.
Okay so before this thread was hijacked into the big debate who watched the live broadcast and is there a link to view it after the fact?
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Rather disappointing, that video. I mean, all we saw was the theater lobby map really! Where's my 1:23 of my life? I demand a refund!
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Y'know this IO is optional that you don't have to slot it. As for the "BUT PEOPLE MIGHT GET KICKED FROM THE TEAM FOR NOT USING THIS IO!" crying, would you even want to team with someone like that anyways? If they're gonna gripe about that I'm sure they're all sorts of well jerk, is the word I'll use, any other word would probably get mod smacked. Long story short, nothing will change, we're getting an option, not having an option taken away.
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Never said it wasn't. Just said it's not as useful as KD. Still not heard anyone tackle that.
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Knockdown keeps high ranking enemies in melee range and they can hit me quickly with heavy attacks.
Knockback moves them farther away so that they either use weaker ranged attacks or take the time to run into melee.
There are times they'll have to cross caltrops or time-bombs to get back into melee and if they are only slowed by the 'trops I have time for my power with KB to recharge.
You've not refuted that point at all. You've pointedly ignored it.
Knockback is more advantageous to my ranged characters (most of what I enjoy playing) especially those without high defense or resistance or simply lower hit points.
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KB+Slow is just too good of a mitigation strategy to not use while soloing.
I suspect the people who hate knockback don't tend to play energy blasters. Which makes your last statement highly suspect.
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I even tried to level a PB...keyword tried lol.
Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying that I'm part of the vast coh gamer majority BUT I do know quite a few players who really want to play certain sets but shy away from it because they are not a fan of KB.
I personally wouldn't mind playes having the option of a few powers losing their mitigation of KB in favor of KD because my playstyle seems almost incapable of adapting to the KB method of playing. I don't want everyone else to sway to my selfish wants or needs. I just would just like the option between the two and I don't mind one bit being penalized heavily for it.
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For me, it's not a matter of "is KB good" or "is KB bad". It's different in different situations, and depending on playstyle preferences, it may be overwhelmingly good, overwhelmingly bad, or somewhere in between.
I personally love single target ranged attacks with any kind of KB. The KB is usually more beneficial than it is detrimental, in my experience, especially when solo.
I also love single target melee attacks with 100% chance to KB (I guess that's just Power Thrust, right?), particularly on non-melee characters (I probably wouldn't use it much on a melee character, but it would still be both fun and useful on occasion with one).
I love ranged cones and AoEs with 100% chance to KB at small magnitudes when solo, or on a small team with limited AoE powers. I think that's pretty much just Shockwave. It's awesome solo and on small teams (like 2-3).
I like ranged cones and AoEs with less than 100% chance to KB when solo, or on a small team with limited AoE powers. The lower than 100% chance causes more scatter than usual, but if I don't need to worry about keeping enemies in range of Radiation Infection or something similar in order to survive, it's no big deal, and generally beneficial.
I feel guilty using ranged and AoEs cones with 100% chance to KB at small magnitudes when solo, or on a small team with limited AoE powers. Again, that's pretty much just Shockwave, but I've had it knock people away from where a teammate was about to place a patch, or slide foes close enough to the next spawn to be unable to engage them in melee without adds, that I've just dropped it from my Claws Scrapper and picked up Spin instead. I love Shockwave, so this was disappointing, and I plan to pick it up again when this IO comes out.
I tolerate single target melee attacks with less than 100% KB, as long as it's only on one attack in my chain. I've got a character that has Crane Kick, and if I didn't absolutely love the animation, I'd drop it for a different attack. But I deal with it KBing stuff I don't want to KB and (this is important as well) it not KBing stuff I do want to KB.
I strongly dislike ranged cones and AoEs on large teams, or teams that need AoE buff/debuffs/damage/control/taunts to survive or make progress at a decent speed. The KB is more disruptive than beneficial due to the scatter in most of these cases, and I don't enjoy the moments when I fire off Energy Torrent or Explosive Blast only to see my teammate drop Freezing Rain where half the group just was, or I knock the guy with Darkest Night on him out of range of a Boss or two that then whack me or someone else much harder than they otherwise would have (if they'd have even hit in the first place). I really hate wanting to use Wormhole as much as my Fire Controller teammate can use Flashfire, and having to hold it for when we're near a corner.
I hate PBAoE KB unless I'm solo or on a small team where nobody has any meaningful AoE powers. It's one of the most disruptive things in the game. Jumping in to a spawn and using Hand Clap right off the start on every spawn (like I used to do when the game first came out) when you're on a team with Fulcrum Shift or other fantastic AoE powers that everyone benefits from is about the worst thing a teammate can do. It's also a stupid thing to do if you have Foot Stomp, and you just negated your ability to hit everyone with it. Obviously, this can be mitigated somewhat, by standing on the edge of the group and trying to use it like a cone. It's usually not very successful, and that's not really the fun in using a power like Hand Clap. For the record, I'm very disappointed in this situation, because I think Hand Clap is a fantastically epic power that belongs in any superhero game. I just think this game is designed in a way that makes large amounts of scatter a detriment in most teaming situations.
I mostly dislike uncontrolled pets with AoE KB unless I'm solo or on a small team where nobody has any meaningful AoE powers. There's no way you're going to "control" this KB with skill. You're not even in control of it. That being said, Phantom Army makes up for its KB because of the aggro control and damage it also provides. The Thug with Hand Clap KB (it's KD now, right?) was often infuriating.
So, over the 8 years I've been playing this game, I've found myself caring more about the teaming situations, and because of that, I would like a way to convert AoE KB into KD. I have an Energy/Energy Blaster that I love, but she does not have Energy Torrent or Explosive Blast, because I found them to be disruptive enough on teams that I would have to hold them back for certain circumstances. Eventually I realized that I'd enjoy myself more if I simply dropped them for two other powers. Now I'll be able to pick one up again.
I think the pro- and anti-KB people are both right. The pro-KB people just likely prefer different situations than I do, and the anti-KB people probably prefer situations similar to the ones I do.
So, yeah, I think it's mostly just playstyle preferences, so I'm happy we're getting this IO, and I hope we'll get a couple more types so I can slot one in Wormhole and Hand Clap.
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Actually, either you are saying exactly that, or your "not really" statement is false. Because if you are not in the majority of players who hate knockback but play energy blasters, my original statement that people who hate knockback tend not to play energy blasters would be true by reasonable inference.
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Actually, either you are saying exactly that, or your "not really" statement is false. Because if you are not in the majority of players who hate knockback but play energy blasters, my original statement that people who hate knockback tend not to play energy blasters would be true by reasonable inference.
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I know I try to bring up the possibility of an Ice/Ice Brute (or Scrapper) up any chance I can get but I doubt that Ice/Ice is wanted or requested anywhere near as much as a Claws Brute was.
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That IO seems amazing, screw the rest of the set. It could give +25% recharge 10% HP 50% acc and I'd still be more excited about the prospect of getting rid of KB in powers like Tornado, Solar Flare, Explosive blast, Shockwave, KM's KB cone that I'm drawing a blank on atm, and other such powers. Its sad that the proc itself is unique, I'd happily slot it in every single power that I wanted to get rid of KB on.
I like KB and my favorite ice cream is mint chocolate chip. Are you saying that since you hate KB and you play characters with a lot of KB that you believe most people who hate KB play characters with lots of KB anyway, or are you saying most don't but you're an exception, or are you saying you believe that somewhere among the words I've typed I said that there exist no players that hate KB and play any character that has a lot of knockback, and you are attempting to provide a counter-example?
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Well I see it as this. Most of the players who like KB or can deal with it are far less vocal than the people who hate it. I think that's normally always the case. For Example the change with Null the Gull being able to turn off the graphics of certain powers. I don't think that many players cared or wanted that feature but the small group of players who did loudly voiced their opinion. This may not be the best example but I think you understand what I'm trying to say.
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My guess is that most players don't have strong feelings either way, so the statement "energy blasters would rejoice" is already on thin ice, but even if most people did have strong opinions energy blast itself would seem to self-select players that like knockback.
*Some* energy blasters might rejoice (and the number is certainly non-zero) but saying "energy blasters would rejoice" when the number is almost certainly a minority seems highly misrepresenting.
So setting aside the general discussion of knockback, the statement that if the IO was global energy blasters would rejoice seems unlikely. Its likely that whether the number of players that like knockback is high or low, they would be concentrated in the sets that actually have it. Its likely the many of them would not use it at all. And of the ones that do, there is no reason to believe that they would not want to do so specifically for a select power rather than all of them simultaneously.
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That's likely to be true, but I'm not sure how to connect it to the statement "most of the people who hate knockback don't tend to play energy blasters." I still don't see how its at all likely that most people who play energy blast could possibly hate knockback when knockback is its signature secondary effect. Every single attack deals knockback: it can't be avoided by selecting attacks that don't have it.
My guess is that most players don't have strong feelings either way, so the statement "energy blasters would rejoice" is already on thin ice, but even if most people did have strong opinions energy blast itself would seem to self-select players that like knockback. *Some* energy blasters might rejoice (and the number is certainly non-zero) but saying "energy blasters would rejoice" when the number is almost certainly a minority seems highly misrepresenting. So setting aside the general discussion of knockback, the statement that if the IO was global energy blasters would rejoice seems unlikely. Its likely that whether the number of players that like knockback is high or low, they would be concentrated in the sets that actually have it. Its likely the many of them would not use it at all. And of the ones that do, there is no reason to believe that they would not want to do so specifically for a select power rather than all of them simultaneously. |
Some people like the look and feel of the set but they are not crazy about the secondary KB that comes with it. I also find myself disliking certain powers in the set but if I exclude them from my build it leaves a hole in my offense...so for me to properly enjoy the set in it's entirety I am forced to learn how to leverage my KB. Well since I personally am unable to adapt to that style of play no matter how hard I try I end up I dropping the ball and I either delete or move on to another toon. Many players feel this way about many other sets no matter if it's about KB, the clunky look of ice armor or something else like "lack of mitigation (Fire Blast)". Maybe some players have tried out sets like Energy Blast or powers like Energy Torrent and fell in love with the look, feel or damage of the power/sets BUT they did not like the KB so they either scrapped the power from their build or stop leveling the toon altogether...meanwhile they are torn because they love the set/power but they just can't get over the KB :/ (points to self). This proc will allow that individual to personally enjoy that toon that they always wanted to play but couldn't and it will maybe open their minds up to actually appreciating KB more and even better yet a small chance of them maybe learning how to utilize KB to their advantage.
I love Illusion but Phantsam drives me UP THE WALL sometimes. I love Shockwave but the KB makes me nervous lol. Repulsing Torrent was a big hit with me until they added KB. I have personally tried out almost all the powers I can think of or find a combo for on mids and I have tested them but there are a few sets that are a No-go for me just because of the KB nature of the set. I've been itching to play a PB and a Energy Blaster for years I've just been waiting or hoping for a day when I can have the option to either nullify or greatly reduce the secondary effect of Knockback.
I think that the other posters mean to say.."I know a lot of people who want to play Energy Blast (and have tried it out) but refuse to due to KB. These people will go ape**** if this was Global. There will be a fresh batch of Energy Blasters spilling out on the servers...clouding the skies with their numbers and eagerness to finally try out a set that they have always been curious about for years."
That IO seems amazing, screw the rest of the set. It could give +25% recharge 10% HP 50% acc and I'd still be more excited about the prospect of getting rid of KB in powers like Tornado, Solar Flare, Explosive blast, Shockwave, KM's KB cone that I'm drawing a blank on atm, and other such powers. Its sad that the proc itself is unique, I'd happily slot it in every single power that I wanted to get rid of KB on.
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What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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