[SPOILERS] Issue 23-New iTrial!
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2012-04-04 16:04 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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And? To me, released at the same time indicates a parallel existence. Just because it's 50+ doesn't mean it happens in the future, otherwise too much in the game would make zero sense to many characters just starting out, especially when sidekicking with higher level characters.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Night Ward is 30-35 - the Trials are 50+.
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PS is not going to devote the vast resources they did to making this whole new world just to nuke it from existence. There will be more to the Praetoria story.
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Of course, we don't know much about the Night Ward story line yet, and it does take place well before the Incarnate content. For all we know, the Night Ward story arcs could take care of everyone in First Ward well before Cole gets a chance to!
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Originally Posted by Kheprera
May I point out that First Ward will still exist.
Since it's linked to the new Praetorian zone Night Ward. By conclusion we can assume more of Praetoria survives Cole's temper tantrum. |
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Well, it wasn't a nuclear weapon so the damage isn't safe to assume. It was Cole calling the combined incarnate power of Zeus and Tartarus which may have had a very localized effect.
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Originally Posted by Zortel
I'm upset that Nova Praetoria is getting nuked. Given proximity, blastwaves, heat, radiation and fallout, Imperial City's pretty much done for, and likely a huge swathe of Neutropolis at the very least.
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Now we don't ignore the Incarnate trials...we just explain away the Incarnate abilities as something else, some use the old school Incarnate lore (you are an Incarnate of a God or concept) or for tech/science based characters they've given themselves upgrades, there's quite a few ways of explaining Incarnate powers without using the frankly poor Incarnate lore that was introduced.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Are you nuts? These are the same RPers who have to ignore incarnate content and powers because 'WE DO NOT LIKE IT SO WE HAVE NOT INCARNATE POWERS!'. Granted this isn't a BAD idea, but roleplayers in CoX will refuse to adapt. And have in the past. Pretty sure a lot of 'canonical' stuff is thrown out the window.
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So no..we don't ignore them completely.
I'm assuming we'll just do like we're currently doing with Statesman until Issue 23, the Apex Taskforce and the Admiral Sutter taskforce...that is until the zone changes are applied then it is considered non-canon (Skyway and Kings Row haven't been blown up etc.)
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Content levels generally follow a timeline - and there's a pretty strong possiblility that even though Night Ward and the Tyrant Trial are bieng released together in I23, Night Ward will have some references to Tyrant still ruling Praetoria.
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Originally Posted by Kheprera
And? To me, released at the same time indicates a parallel existence. Just because it's 50+ doesn't mean it happens in the future, otherwise too much in the game would make zero sense to many characters just starting out, especially when sidekicking with higher level characters.
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@Golden Girl
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'We' is not the term I use, really. I accept everything that happens, right then and there, as canon. When it hits live, it's canon. I just have a decent suspension of disbelief when it comes to Statesman still being present in content, because that's just how an MMO works. So... yeah. You do it your way, I do it my way.|
Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
Now we don't ignore the Incarnate trials...we just explain away the Incarnate abilities as something else, some use the old school Incarnate lore (you are an Incarnate of a God or concept) or for tech/science based characters they've given themselves upgrades, there's quite a few ways of explaining Incarnate powers without using the frankly poor Incarnate lore that was introduced.
So no..we don't ignore them completely. I'm assuming we'll just do like we're currently doing with Statesman until Issue 23, the Apex Taskforce and the Admiral Sutter taskforce...that is until the zone changes are applied then it is considered non-canon (Skyway and Kings Row haven't been blown up etc.) |
If it's live, it's canon. End of story.
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I'm sure many people wanted to go back home to Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the bombs, as well. In most cases, they probably did, and helped to rebuild those cities to what they are today.
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Originally Posted by Zortel
I'm upset that Nova Praetoria is getting nuked. Given proximity, blastwaves, heat, radiation and fallout, Imperial City's pretty much done for, and likely a huge swathe of Neutropolis at the very least.
My characters left Praetoria always hoping to go back home one day *snip* |
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That is how the lore works, full stop. Ouroboros has characters locked at different power levels based on different historical events. Zwillinger himself has stated that the timeline in City of Heroes (a comic book game) does not work the way you are attempting to imply.|
Originally Posted by Night_Watcher
That is not how RP should work.
... There is no back-at-lvl-15 timeline and lvl 50 timeline, they're one and the same for both players. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
As has been pointed out several times, story telling works in many ways within the structures of City of Heroes, as do timelines.
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Now apparently the Trial had now ending cutscene (probably not implemented yet).
All they need to do is show people climbing out of the rubble and one of the signature heroes along with whats left of the Resistance agreeing to help rebuild Praetoria.
There..Praetoria is still there it's just being rebuilt.
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You can still watch it. I just found its recorded. I missed the second half. Had to leave just after tyrants "nuke". |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I knew I should have skipped that design meeting to watch the stream. I always miss the fun threads.
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http://www.twitch.tv/mmorpgcom/b/313935925
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You know, I have no idea how to put across in words something that makes sense. Something that has and does make sense to the vast majority of roleplayers that have been, gone and still are on Union as part of the RP community since the server launched confounds people.|
Originally Posted by El__D
That is how the lore works, full stop. Ouroboros has characters locked at different power levels based on different historical events. Zwillinger himself has stated that the timeline in City of Heroes (a comic book game) does not work the way you are attempting to imply.
I get that you and some of the other European RPers see it differently, but attempting to argue that it doesn't work that way because that's not how you play the game, when the majority of the other players and the Red Names have spelled out that it does, in fact, work that way, is a battle you have already lost (and not just in this timeline, either). |
The Unionverse is a timeline of events and people. It began in March 2005 with the first Galaxy Girl meeting, called by the hero 'The Prize' to draw attention to events conspiring on Striga Island and lead a call to arms against the Council. Characters existed as beings before that point in the timeline as dictated by players. Since then, supergroups have risen, fallen and endured. Great heroes have passed, villains have committed evil deeds, and people have changed in countless ways from their interactions with other player characters and the plots created by, as well as occurances in the game world.
The Second Rikti War, the Praetorian War, the destruction of Galaxy City, and more. Including most recently, the events that transpired in Dark Astoria that took place over a 28 day period that culminated on Tuesday with a task force of heroes and villains fighting in Astoria to buy the time needed for the NPC's to bind Mot.
Just because Atlas Park's new storyarcs happen at level one does not warp time back and change seven years of the past in the Unionverse. They are recent developments. The change to the tram system does not invalidate previous in character grumbles about having to change at Skyway North to Skyway South for Talos Island.
The result is something where players, characters and stories are remembered for a long time. A fluid timeline where level 15 is the past and level 50 is the present, maybe, except when it's not, and what happens when a level 15 and a level 45 interact at a level 30 point in time? That's a tangled ball of yarn, and that's why it's been how it's been for longer than some of the devs and community people have worked for at the company and long before the servers or even the forums were united.
It just annoys me immensely when people get a sniff of this notion and think it's some abhorrent concept that must be altered and changed because hell knows what reason cited, as if a rich shared history set to a consistent timeline is a terrible thing. My brain just can't try and make things clearer though, so sorry about that.
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By We I was not refering to all RPers but Union RPers.
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Originally Posted by Reppu
'We' is not the term I use, really. I accept everything that happens, right then and there, as canon. When it hits live, it's canon. I just have a decent suspension of disbelief when it comes to Statesman still being present in content, because that's just how an MMO works. So... yeah. You do it your way, I do it my way.
If it's live, it's canon. End of story. |
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Maybe you can't, but I'm creative enough to find a way.
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Originally Posted by Night_Watcher
Oh, they won't do that since the game's alla bout replayability. But from the RP standpoint, you you can't make a new Praetorian because the place is gone. You can't RP in there anything new, any character progress you had if you kept the character there for IC reasons. Maybe your character never aimed to elave Praetoria? Well, now they're dead, have fun. -_-
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If you are just going to ignore it anyway, and you admit you've been doing it for years, what's the point of all the rage?
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Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
I'm assuming we'll just do like we're currently doing with Statesman until Issue 23, the Apex Taskforce and the Admiral Sutter taskforce...that is until the zone changes are applied then it is considered non-canon (Skyway and Kings Row haven't been blown up etc.) |
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That's the Omega slot.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Then re-create the entire universe in your image.
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Was there anywhere in the Ustream or anywhere said that, after the trial, that Praetoria is completely nuked? Destroyed? That total genocide took place because of what Cole did?|
Originally Posted by Night_Watcher
Oh, they won't do that since the game's alla bout replayability. But from the RP standpoint, you you can't make a new Praetorian because the place is gone. You can't RP in there anything new, any character progress you had if you kept the character there for IC reasons. Maybe your character never aimed to elave Praetoria? Well, now they're dead, have fun. -_-
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I'm more willing to agree with whoever said that what Cole did was just localized and just affecting Nova as a whole. Sucks to be the people who do live there, but hey. It's Cole, what can we expect?
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Not really.|
Originally Posted by Zortel
I'm upset that Nova Praetoria is getting nuked. Given proximity, blastwaves, heat, radiation and fallout, Imperial City's pretty much done for, and likely a huge swathe of Neutropolis at the very least.
My characters left Praetoria always hoping to go back home one day. In Maxi Pound's case, she -liked- her job there, liked protecting people from terrorists and nutters, and her parents lived in the city. Circumstances forced her to leave with her colleague, but she always hoped she'd be able to go home at one point, when saner minds liked Marchand, Washington and Kang could help change things for the better. Zahir Rolando has plenty of painful memories of Praetoria after the restaurant he and his partner were in was bombed by Resistance terrorists. But it also held a lot of great memories for him, and the chance to maybe make some new ones. Constance Svanhildr deserted the IDF. She joined to fight the Devouring Earth years ago, and Primal Earth was a stupid target in her view, one that distracted them from their main fight in her opinion. So she left, but she was never disloyal to Praetoria, not in her heart. Now, yet another mistake from the past will ruin thousands of lives. It presents a problem for the Union RP community because of how RP developed on Union from its beginning back in 2005. The IC timeline for the vast majority of roleplayers that I know, is that a day in our reality is a day in theirs. Characters have aged over the past 7 years, and we've tried our hardest to incorporate things into our characters lives as they come up. Someone mentioned Galaxy City earlier. The difference is that Galaxy City, when the meteors hit, was destroyed. Characters were caught up in it. Some lived, some died, some were changed forever. We had a fiction thread about it, there was roleplay, new ideas were born out of it. This presents a different problem, in that if the three Praetorian starter zones don't change, then there's quite a gulf of disconnect, especially for people new to the Unionverse. You get people coming from non-nuked Praetoria when others think it is nuked, so on and so forth. As such, it seems like it will have to be as it is with Statesman now. Until he's no longer in IP, he's still alive. Until Nova Praetoria and other areas show the effects of Tyrant's madness, it hasn't occurred. That'll lead to problems in the long run more than likely, but that's how it'll have to be. There's no chance of the devs changing what happens in the iTrial, so we just have to deal. We already were able to thrash things out regarding Mot and the storyline updates in Dark Astoria (A large coalition of heroes and villains did interfering action on Tuesday in Astoria, to buy the NPC's time to do what they had to.) It may seem crazy to some people, but the Unionverse has been alive and breathing for years now, with characters and player plots and incidents from seven years ago and onwards still coming up, being referenced, and having shaped out characters to how they are this day. I apologies for the ramble, but it's been a long day that seems to have ended with a bit of a kick.  |
What this does is this...
Maxi left always hoped to return when saner minds were in charge. Well, looks like what she wanted and what happened are two different things.
Zahir just found out that he can infact create a new resturant as property just became cheap!
Constance has no one to blame but Cole. Let that fuel her rage!
As for the new characters coming from none nuked Praetoria and others coming from it...that sounds like a typical closed RP community issue, and thusly shouldn't be a problem.
In open RP community, you have to make adaptions to different characters.
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We already have one ignorable RP fanatic getting uppity about how lore is handled.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Are you nuts? These are the same RPers who have to ignore incarnate content and powers because 'WE DO NOT LIKE IT SO WE HAVE NOT INCARNATE POWERS!'. Granted this isn't a BAD idea, but roleplayers in CoX will refuse to adapt. And have in the past. Pretty sure a lot of 'canonical' stuff is thrown out the window.
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We don't need two. Take it elsewhere.
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Sheesh. I make an off-hand and largely facetious remark about eliminating the Praetorian tutorial in another thread, and then I discover that in this thread there's actual rage going on? Whoa, I need to be more careful about where I post...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
This is not the case.
I would strongly recommend that you not put a lot of stock in rumors. Wait for official confirmation from a Red Name or for an official article, such as an Issue overview or an Intrepid Informer article. I promise, there is much more information to come. |
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Roleplaying in an MMO has always dealt with this.|
Originally Posted by Night_Watcher
That is not how RP should work. If you have a lvl 50 incarnated character and say you RP it daily in Pocket D. You go there, meet with some Praetorians among other people they know on a daily basis. You and the other palyers follow one timeline, you're in the -now-. There is no back-at-lvl-15 timeline and lvl 50 timeline, they're one and the same for both players. So once the new trial is canon with I23, suddenly all your Praetorian friends, associates and accomplices are gone because they live in Praetoria, but that place is no more.
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Many MMO's imply a constantly-progressing story as you level up. Your character may have encountered the RWZ when it came out 3 or 4 years ago when it first came out. To my newly-rolled fresh enlistee for Vanguard, he just did those events this week.
Great roleplaying is at its core a form of collaborative storytelling. We express our part and react to the part that others provide. Sometimes the story doesn't go where we expect it to or particulary want it to go. Sometimes you have stellar nights that really inspire you to take your character a direction you hadn't thought of before and sometimes you need to hand wave it all away to salvage what made your character interesting to you in the first place. Sometimes real life makes you miss an event that you'd really wish to write your character into. Flexibility is key- "conflicting" moments appear in roleplay all the time. if you're too rigid, you waste more time wrangling over these barriers instead of enjoying each other's contributions to the story.
The same goes for reacting to dev-provided content. Perhaps doubly so.
Question...how did Union RP go about starting up in NP, meeting Maruader, when he was defeated in BAF?
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Okay, my brain is utterly fried from a culminative 8 hours of sorting through documents at work for shredding or recycling so I know things are jumbled.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Not really.
What this does is this... Maxi left always hoped to return when saner minds were in charge. Well, looks like what she wanted and what happened are two different things. Zahir just found out that he can infact create a new resturant as property just became cheap! Constance has no one to blame but Cole. Let that fuel her rage! As for the new characters coming from none nuked Praetoria and others coming from it...that sounds like a typical closed RP community issue, and thusly shouldn't be a problem. In open RP community, you have to make adaptions to different characters. |
What I was talking about with those characters are what I -hoped- for them to be able to do. I -know- that will have to change now, and once the thing is on Test and we get more concrete information I can begin to get an idea. But! it's...
Huh. It's all just like what happened with Galaxy City getting destroyed. People started going 'You're all crazy for doing this, it works this way, you guys suck as roleplayers, noobs, learn to play like how we do.'
We get hit with this news, like news before it, brains get blasted, then we calm down, work out how it goes into the Unionverse, get a general consensus, and work within that.
Gah, I'm just going to throw in the towel. This never does any good, and I should learn to keep my mouth shut and fingers away from the keyboard.
It's the price we pay for having a living and breathing player created timeline that takes into account a lot of the lore in the game and has let players leave their marks in player run plots and actions in server-wide events for seven years.
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