An in-game conversation about tauntless Tankers
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2011-12-28 10:07 in Tankers
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Well, not really a good example. You can run that TF on a team with no tanks, brutes or scrappers and everyone using DO's.
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Originally Posted by Katie V
I teamed with a tauntless WP/Stone on a Posi 1 once. I wound up tanking the TF on my level 16 Shield scrapper because the WP/Stone simply couldn't hold aggro.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
I am experimenting around with ideas for a Tank Mage type character. It is tough to describe, but basically one of the uber type villains you will see in comics. Tough as nails, ranged attacks, cookies. He will be tauntless if I make him a tabk. Unless I think taunt is funny, then I'll grab it. What is important is that he is built far away from "Tanker specs" because I am not making a Tank. I am trying to write up a concept in my head using Tanker as a base. i would never inflict the design on a team without giving them fair warning of what they were getting.
What i am saying is, it is fine to be a tauntless Tanker, whatever your reason. Just give the team a heads up. I probably wouldnt say anything, but if I was blasting on a team with 2 Tanks and neither taunted I might get irritated, especially if i had no idea what was going on. If they said "Hey we the tauntless tank Bros" I would be cool. I would put them between me and mobs and snipe, cutting down on team speed. But if they aint gonna Tank normal I aint gonna Blast normal, kapish?
All of my Tanks take Taunt and 4-slot it with Perfect Zinger (for the chance for Psy dmg and the +Regen and +Recharge). None of my other characters do because I don't design them to tank. If they happen to be able to do it thats fine but it's not how I see them. I won't kick a Tanker for not having it but in my notes I put stuff like 'Yes, I have Taunt and I know how to use it." My Tankers are seldom lonely...
Taunt is great for saving team members. Is the Blaster getting beat up? Click on him and Taunt whatever he's attacking. You might buy him a few second's of breathing room.
Taunt is great solo. It's an auto-hit for 5 targets and with the Zinger Proc that averages to one per Taunt taking Psy damage (which few mobs have resistance to). I use it as an actual attack sometimes.
Taunt is great in open maps since the -Range will bring pesky shooters and fliers closer.
Taunt costs no End so it works even after the dual Sappers have their way with your End bar.
I don't do the 10 billion Inf builds so it's easy to come up with the 3 slots most of the time. If I can't I always use at lease 1 for the Zinger proc and Zinger Taunt/Range.
If you're spec-building a team and want 1 Tank then sure, you want him to have Taunt. Otherwise I see it as a small issue given how aggro works currently. However, if they change aggro to make Tankers more distinct then I might change my mind to the 'should take it' camp.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
As a tank I always take taunt as soon as it's available (ie lvl 10).
As a tank I always 6 slot taunt with Perfect Zinger by level 32 at the latest.
As a tank I always shake my head in disbelief at tanks that
1) haven't taken taunt,
2) don't want to take taunt,
3) say they don't "need" to take taunt,
4) don't "like" taunt, and/or
5) believe taunt is a waste of a power (for whatever reason they try to justify their belief with).
This is just my opinion, but the fact is, as a tank, I think less of you as a tank if you don't have taunt. It's the first power I check another tank for when teamed as it lets me know how much of their slack I'll need to pick up for the team/league.
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Meh. I might pick it up at 49.|
Originally Posted by UNB0UND_4_LIFE
As a tank I always take taunt as soon as it's available (ie lvl 10).
As a tank I always 6 slot taunt with Perfect Zinger by level 32 at the latest. As a tank I always shake my head in disbelief at tanks that 1) haven't taken taunt, 2) don't want to take taunt, 3) say they don't "need" to take taunt, 4) don't "like" taunt, and/or 5) believe taunt is a waste of a power (for whatever reason they try to justify their belief with). This is just my opinion, but the fact is, as a tank, I think less of you as a tank if you don't have taunt. It's the first power I check another tank for when teamed as it lets me know how much of their slack I'll need to pick up for the team/league. |
Sad to see the return of these kind of threads to be honest.
Any way I am going with Reggae Reggae Sauce
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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Where I find it particularly useful is not for a healer, who with the possible exception of some Emp/Fires don't pull that much aggro, as for debuffers, who often do. My Fire/Rad controller friend manages to faceplant fairly regularly even with me running a Fire/Fire tank, just because the radius of some of her powers (the AoE Immob in particular) is larger then my biggest PbAoE. On a fairly dispersed spawn, it at least gives me a chance to try to target any bosses lurking on the outskirts and drag them over before they beat him up. I can also reel in debuff anchors, who have a strong tendency to flee these days with the latest AI tweaks. |
Originally Posted by KnightofKhonsu
However, Taunt is a tool a tanker can use to pull enemies of his teammates when he cannot disengage from those he's fighting. Especially if said teammate is your primary healer who happened to gain aggro from some enemies in between he/she and the tanker.
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I was just on an ITF last night that ran with "who was available", and the only tanking available was 2 scrapper and 2 MMs. Lots of fun, and not many deaths at all, but the Rommy fight was a bit of a pain because with no Taunt to keep him in place he went running way off to the side and died out of LOS of a Nictus so we had to beat that down later. AVs, and critters in general, tend to run if they can't hit you, a common situation on high level teams these days. Similarly, in the Keyes trial Taunt is really handy to keep Positron where you want him without damaging him. In a Apex trial you can keep the AVs attention while she is in a Death Patch and you can't melee her. In a STF you can keep Lord Recluse's attention even when he is unhittable. The positioning and facing you can do with Taunt is just very handy, in my opinion, and particularly so in the situations where a team is likely to want to recruit a tank for their survivability and aggro control anyway.
Nice to know the Mito knockback is Mag 10, I had been trying to find out if the Mag 11 protection I have on my Fire tank would be enough to tank them but ran into that AT specific modifier problem that got fixed, thanks!
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Originally Posted by Blondeshell
Earlier this morning, someone on a global channel was asking about certain enhancements and whether they would be effective. This eventually devolved into a 45-minute argument about the role of a Tanker and the benefits of having taunt, which he was against. Coming to this forum to share the story, I was amused to find this thread already discussing the role of a Tanker. I suppose parts of this could be applicable for the Rude Tells thread, but it'll probably be better appreciated here.
(Note: I suppose we all should have been tipped off at the very beginning that this was not going to go well, when he thought that Gaussians was specifically for "fire" powers...) Cast of Characters Tanker? - Main antagonist CP X - Channel People 1-5 Me Tanker?: can i use this for energy mastery....focused accuracy [Power:Crafted Gaussians Synchronized FireControl E.Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control: To Hit Buff/Endurance Reduction.50] CP 1: no CP 1: wait yes sry tired Tanker?: no bs right...you are telling me straight CP 1: u can use it CP 1: u can use it Tanker?: im a tanker...with no fire powers..is it still good CP 1: yes, it is a huge end drain but it will bring the acc of ur attacks Tanker?: s--- ...endurance is something i need...maybe i shouldnt CP 1: i would use phyical perfection CP 1: and converse power Tanker?: what other to hit buff would you suggest...... CP 1: what attack set r u Tanker?: batle ax CP 1: put the guassin's in build up Tanker?: dont have build up or taunt CP 1: and u r a tank? Tanker?: they drain endurance Tanker?: yup CP 1: every tank should have taunt Tanker?: why...i just go in and smash them anyway CP 1: cause a tank inst always the dmg dealer on a team CP 1: tanks r made to take dmg and hold aggro CP 2: CP 1 is right. EVERY tank should have taunt. It's your job. Make sure everything is beating on you, and nobody else. Not damage dealing. Tanker?: but without taunt sloted i have room for another hit power CP 1: after u r fully slotted u will not need another accuarcy power to boost ur to hit CP 2: If you want to be a damage dealer, go brute or scrapper. CP 1: agreed CP 3: Dark Armor tanks though what about them CP 1: they r s--- CP 3: actually they're pretty fun and decent Tanker?: with the agro i have ...everyone does attack me CP 1: unless u r fighting psionic CP 3: or s/l or energy CP 1: but taunt is made to make sure that u have the aggro even with ppl who r dealing more dmg than u CP 3: [Gauntlet] CP 1: which helps CP 1: but i acan pull aggro from a tank than doesnt have taunt with a corr or a blaster Tanker?: im willpower battle ax....im pretty powerful...and i take care of the poeple i team with....for the most part... the focus does stay on me CP 1: wanna prove it? Tanker?: now im not fully enhanced yet big guy but we can go into a farm and i can show ya CP 1: let me switching Me: Playing a tank without taunt should only be done if you're trying to accomplish some specific concept. Tanker?: besides im on justice CP 3: my concept is griefing CP 1: i can come there Me: It'd be like a pet-less Mastermind or a "pure" Empathy healz0r. CP 1: back on justice Tanker?: look...i have a tank on triumph..who has taunt...i dont like the power...i feel it's a waste of space....what i have sloted works well for me and the teams i play on....there is no rule saying a tank needs taunt...it's a waste of a slot..in my own opinion CP 3: there is a rule though it's just understood CP 2: Going for a damage dealing tank is just doing no roles well. Crap damage, and no aggro focus. Tanker?: a slot that can be used for a nother hit power...or a defence power Me: Yes, it's going against what the AT is designed to do, which is gain and maintain aggro Me: But, you're welcome to play your character however you wish Tanker?: so what you are saying is a tank is a punching bag....f-that noise...i wanna bang stuff up CP 2: It's like trying to play a dominator as a blaster. CP 3: then play a brute CP 2: Or a scrapper. CP 2: Tanks are punching bags. Tanker?: i like tanks CP 3: they're tanks, really CP 1: but i can guarantee i can pull aggro from u with a different at not design to hold aggro and keep it from u Tanker?: who cares about agro...is there a badge for it...can you sell it...can you convert it...no... Me: It just helps keep your teammates alive... CP 2: ...It keeps your team alive, and successful... Tanker?: my teamates do stay alive CP 3: I can sell aggro CP 1: no but one day it will get u and ur teammates killed Tanker?: bulloks CP 4: There is a "Damage Taken" badge group so technically YES Tanker?: i have that one CP 2: Without taunt, that Cimeroran boss runs over to your empath which is keeping you alive, and 2 shots her, then you die. Aggro did that. Me: all seven of them? Tanker?: it's not for aggro..so no CP 4: then why did you ask such a silly question if you already knew the answer? Tanker?: lol CP 1: taunt is there for one reason and 1 reason only, to hold, maintain, and manipulate aggro, without u r nothing more than a scrapper thats a like harder to kill CP 1: little* CP 2: Well, I guess it's fine if you think that taunt is worthless...You're just on my list of tanks I won't run any TFs with. Tanker?: im not just gonna stand arround and call a mob to me and just do alittle damage......when they do gather i knock um on thier a----...if some slip away thats fine..but the majority of them stay on me Me: obviously, you won't like be taunting things if you solo all the time, but it's virtually indispensable in high level groups Me: *likely be CP 1: and the ones that slipp away could kill part of ur team cause u cant get their aggro Tanker?: i said only a few slip by...i always go for the strongest guys first CP 1: and u just dont stand there and call the mob to u, u go to the group and taunt and let the team kill most of the mob Tanker?: look...you got a toon on justice CP 3: I think it would be best if we made a big deal about it CP 1: it doesnt always take the strongest mo to kill someone CP 4: rather have you go for the most dangerous -- not always the same (Two minutes later) CP 3: are we done? Tanker?: look man f-taunt...it's a waste...ask anyone ive ever teamed with......i dont need it, dont want it, and dont care for the power....if im the only tank, i take care of my team CP 3: guess we're not done CP 1: its ur choice, i will just never team and believe a tank without taunt has a retarded player behind the wheel CP 1: i am tired of talking about this and so GN [Channel] CP 5: later Me: cya CP 4: and Tanks like you are the reason why I play my Corr, put Twilight Grasp on auto and stand next to Fluffy  CP 2: Goodnight CP 1 aka "voice of reason" Tanker?: you guys think just because i dont have taunt, im not a good player....f--- taunt and f--- you CP 1..im not retarded i have ceribal palsey...lol..... CP 3: This is gold Me: you mean "cerebral palsy"? Tanker?: knowone sayed i was gude spellar CP 3: is it ataxic? CP 5: well Tanker? that is a form of retardness Tanker?: bottom line is i take care of the team im on when i team...taunt is not needed by me CP 3: is your team ataxic? CP 5: and damn go smoke a fter CP 5: fatty Tanker?: besides without it ...it keeps my team on thier toes CP 4: "not needed by you" and "beneficial to the team" are two different things CP 3: or on their faces CP 4: The hospitals do have cute nurses now at least CP 5: if u dont want to tank play a brute Tanker?: belive what you want...ive never had a team fail a mission because we all died CP 3: never? Tanker?: never CP 3: ever run a UGT or TPN CP 5: lol CP 5: never say never Me: or STF or ITF Tanker?: teamates fall..as in every team..no i haven't yet like i said just started enhanceing this toon CP 3: how do you tank av's Tanker?: i go in and kick his a--... Me: lol CP 3: I bet ya do CP 2: Do you...Just run sewers...Like, all the time? CP 5: avs in ae dont count u know CP 4: poor indicator about tanking an AV -- I Tanked Romy in the last mission with a Stalker (the other 7 characters were all Corrs) Tanker?: no buddy...sewers are for wussies...i built this toon from the ground up Me: meaning you levelled him starting from one? Tanker?: play all the missions im given, kick all the a-- that is requiered of me Me: that's how I've done all of mine, too... CP 3: so you skipped sewers then Me: and AE? CP 3: from the ground up? Tanker?: did the sewr mission twice for the badges only...not to lev. and no...i take all my toons through the tutorial CP 3: I need the tutorial that many times too Me: yep, I start all of my characters from level one and go from there. it's the only way to go!!1 CP 3: so do you ever run any itrials where you tank Me: the tutorial only gets you to level 2... CP 3: or do you just not tank during itrials CP 4: you know that you get a free level if you press alt+f4? Tanker?: im not some free to play player...some noob...just one so far with this toon...and only twice on the other Tanker?: yeah ok...har, har, har, de har, har! CP 3:: so 3 itrials total Tanker?: yeup...nothing wrong woth that is there oh CoH god that you are Me: just as a point of reference, how long have you been playing, Tanker?? CP 3: at least a week Tanker?: since 2008 then i recently got an account myself CP 3: ever tank for the STF? Tanker?: yeah just started yesturday Tanker?: dont know what that is CP 3: good, good Me: then, no Me: you should try it sometime, the Statesman Task Force in Independence Port Tanker?: what is it..maybe i have CP 3: you can probably tank lord recluse with just your axe and your willpower, I'd go for it Tanker?: oh yeah ive done that with this toon...pieace of cake Me: fruit cake? Tanker?: funny..i gues tuant would make a HUGE difference there [Tell] CP 3: it's such a silly argument [Tell] CP 3: why would you not take taunt [Tell] CP 3: "It's okay I'm battle axe guys" |
What is amazing is this little thing you put together does opposite of what it intends to do. This Tanker is obviously a new player since he is asking general advice and skipped Build Up yet he correctly understands that generally Taunt is not needed to be a good Tank and that it is ok pick a power that helps you survive rather than picking a power like Taunt.
If you and the other players really had the brains to help him you would have told him to get Build Up, correctly informed him that Tankers do have decent damage and damage impacts taunt as well so they need to do good damage anyway. Also you should have informed him that while generally tankers do not necessarily need Taunt, his chosen set Will Power benefits most from it cause of the smaller Taunt in Rise to the Challenge in comparison to other sets which may have compelled him to change primarys but still play Tanks.
But no, instead you foolishly compared a Tauntless Tanker with a Petless Mastermind and a Heal Only Empathy Defender and at one time made fun of him because he misspelled something incorrectly. This young new player knows more about the game than you. He called you on your BS and now I am calling you on your BS.
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Something else that's worth learning: manners.
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Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
[rant]
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Ok as a fellow Tank and HAMI leader on few of the servers ( Justice, Freedom, Defiant) If i see a tank that has no taunt i put them on the yellow damage team, if they r a FA tank and dose have Taunt I ask them what there KB prot is if it is 9 or less I put them on the Yellow damage team, and to your question mauk dose not stack but have a KB of 10
Mitochondria Antibodies Hamidon Devouring Earth 50 - 50 Cytoplasmic Blast 10 I take Taunt on all my tanks no matter what it is for several reasons most which is mentioned already. Another reason depending on the tank I take it for Def purpose with the IOs 6 Perfic zingers gives me 3.13% def to my s/l if i have a tank that uses positional 4 mocking which gives me 1.25% on melee def. And yes I have Tanked HAMI plenty of times on my tanks, just last night I was HAMI bait on my FA/Fire tank with 12 KB prot and did not even used an EoE on it. HAMI is not the only thing I believe a Tank should have taunt there r so many other end game where Taunt is handy IE STF for example.
IMHO, I do not view tauntless tankers as being tankers. I look at them as someone who is playing a character with better defenses than a brute, but with worse damage output than other melee characters.
Now, while this game does offer tremendous flexibility in building characters, I don't think it is unreasonable to "want" a character to be able to fulfill its role. To me, that means a Tanker should want to have Taunt (the power) in the build and your defenses are adequate. I would think the vast majority of people would be able to look at it, say "ok we're good", and not have any reservations about that character.
Again, to me, I am one who enjoys the flexibility, but I also highly value not deviating too far from the central aspects of what my character is generally designed to do.
@ Dr Gemini
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| �If we would come together and be great role models, it would be amazing to see how the next generation turns out.� |
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Wait, you're saying Taunt is not required (which I agree with) but we should have "told" him to get Build Up? Are you suggesting that Build Up is a 'required power'? So.. um.. what was that comment about brains?
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Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
This Tanker is obviously a new player since he is asking general advice and skipped Build Up yet he correctly understands that generally Taunt is not needed to be a good Tank and that it is ok pick a power that helps you survive rather than picking a power like Taunt.
If you and the other players really had the brains to help him you would have told him to get Build Up, |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Assuming that their "role" is a rigid definition set up by whom? The devs? You?|
Originally Posted by DrGemini
Now, while this game does offer tremendous flexibility in building characters, I don't think it is unreasonable to "want" a character to be able to fulfill its role.
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If someone creates a tank for soloing, do they need taunt?
If someone normally teams with another tank and is designed to be the secondary tank, do they need taunt?
Maybe they're a little more into flexibility than you and a little less into rigid definitions of each AT's "role".
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Interesting conversation....
I personaly dont mind if someone doesnt have the taunt power as a tanker.
But you know thats just my opinion...there are bad players and there are good ones......
I have seen really good players with Tanks that have no taunt power....that sit there and fall asleep during a combat and no one notices. I have seen others with out a taunt power stand next to things and no matter what you do....you couldnt pull those targets off of them.
And i have seen players with taunt...either refuse to use it....use it stupidly....or even aggro way to much with it so that tons of enemies would attack their own team instead of them.
So if a Tank doesnt have the taunt power picked....oh well....that was their choice....
but they better be able to play their character.....and they best not complain if they cant hold the aggro while on a team....and they best not try to pin the blame for team deaths on others....becasue they for example decided to super speed into a room and aggro everything....but since their gauntlet only keeps aggro on 5 things....all the targets end up chasing the rest of the team.
By the way a few things gauntlet wont ever trump....anchor powers....blasters/scrappers/brutes using dual auras...and a stalker hitting with a Critical...those things will always take the aggro from someone trying to use gaunlet only.
Only way to try to combat that is have a large aura slotted with taunt enhancements... and that doesnt work very well in those specifc cases.
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First one I taunt even when soloing, I have been on many teams with more then 1 tank and most of us have taunt and it is funny watching the baddies keep bounceing back and forth being taunted and the bashed. And if u read up about tanks Gemini is right tanks are there to take the aggro off of the other team mates. Come to TT some time.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Assuming that their "role" is a rigid definition set up by whom? The devs? You?
If someone creates a tank for soloing, do they need taunt? If someone normally teams with another tank and is designed to be the secondary tank, do they need taunt? Maybe they're a little more into flexibility than you and a little less into rigid definitions of each AT's "role". |
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Tanker is just one more AT for people to play however they like. If they're trying to tank for a team, yeah, there are expectations. But if they're going to solo or be on a team without 'tanking', people need to be less uptight about build choices.
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Originally Posted by LSK
And if u read up about tanks Gemini is right tanks are there to take the aggro off of the other team mates. Come to TT some time.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
I don't mind tauntless tanks any more than I mind buffless defenders, because I don't believe in outsourcing my defense/damage to China.
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The problem with your statements is a pure lack of willingness on some people's part to accept the fact that, while there is amazing flexibility, each AT was designed with a role in mind.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Assuming that their "role" is a rigid definition set up by whom? The devs? You?
If someone creates a tank for soloing, do they need taunt? If someone normally teams with another tank and is designed to be the secondary tank, do they need taunt? Maybe they're a little more into flexibility than you and a little less into rigid definitions of each AT's "role". |
A tanker was designed to be the "meat shield" of the team. And, they were given Taunt as the means by which they can fill their role quite easily without having to sacrifice in other areas. And, on top of that, tankers were given Gauntlet so they can be right in there doing all the damage they want to do, claim all the aggro, and survive it. Taunt allows you to bring enemies into your "world of influence" without having to do a lot of excessive chasing. Thus, Taunt (a power that does quite well without any slotting) allows a Tanker to fulfill that role better.
Now, I am not against people playing the way they want to. However, when you consider how much of the game depends on the need for teaming with all the Task Forces, Trials, and other group content... You can enjoy soloing all you want, but the fact remains that you will have to engage in team play at some point if you want that character to be anything more than just a fun little side show.
In light of how much group content exists in the game, would it not be wise to make sure you have all the bases covered so that you can solo or team and have no trouble?
But, really, in all your choices, Taunt takes up 1 power choice and requires no additional slotting to be useful and ready when it is needed. Feel free to invest the rest of your build in entirely selfish pursuits, but have that 1 little Taunt power there to cover you role when it is time to join in a team.
@ Dr Gemini
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| �If we would come together and be great role models, it would be amazing to see how the next generation turns out.� |
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This, minus the reggae sauce and...|
Originally Posted by Jagged
Meh. I might pick it up at 49.
Sad to see the return of these kind of threads to be honest. |
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn
I don't mind tauntless tanks any more than I mind buffless defenders, because I don't believe in outsourcing my defense/damage to China.
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This whole thread is a gas. Just a bunch of Tankers circle-jerkin their perspective, trying to reaffirm what they do is 'the right path'.
Hah, the worse of it is, it's mainly doing so by affirming the fragility of everyone else as proof that is their role. That'd work if it was truth.
The truth is, I don't need a meatshield for my blasters to not die. I don't need a taunter to clump foes together for my doms. I don't need someone to take the alpha for me on my stalkers. And I'm not the only player that doesn't. That said, is it nice when there is a tanker to perform these things? Of course! I like it when everyone contributes! But 'taunting' and 'aggro' is so specialized, so niche, so trivialized, you're limiting your own damned self if you think that's all you can do, is all the AT is good for and should be the focus of your playstyle.
The OP is purely fail, and is only posting this BS so he and all the other little Tankies can pat eachother on the backs. It's funny, really.
That said, I have 4 Tankers of my own and every one of them took Taunt by lvl 30. I did so because I *know* I'm not the best Tanker in the world and that power is a decent crutch. But even saying that, I try to only use it when there is lots of foes and I don't have the aggro cap breathing down my neck.
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I accept the fact of the design intent.|
Originally Posted by DrGemini
The problem with your statements is a pure lack of willingness on some people's part to accept the fact that, while there is amazing flexibility, each AT was designed with a role in mind.
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And I applaud people who think outside that box.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Leo_G,
I was about to post something along the lines of what you beat me to.
I can not think of a time when, playing one of my non-tank characters, my thought was, "OMG! The Tanker doesn't have Taunt!" Heck, there isn't always even a tank on the teams I have been on.
Under construction
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
I accept the fact of the design intent.
And I applaud people who think outside that box. |
A tauntless tanker isn't someone thinking "outside the box".
It's someone who dislikes, doesn't understand or just disbelieves in the idea of a tanker as a combat controller. And since tanker damage is less than scrapper damage, they to to augment their attack chains with power choices to turn what could be a first-rate tank into a third-rate scrapper.
Then, when this blows up in their face, their teammates, who're expecting a modicum of aggro control, are the ones who pay the price.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Or someone who goes about doing so without that particular tool.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
A tauntless tanker isn't someone thinking "outside the box".
It's someone who dislikes, doesn't understand or just disbelieves in the idea of a tanker as a combat controller. |
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| And since tanker damage is less than scrapper damage, they to to augment their attack chains with power choices to turn what could be a first-rate tank into a third-rate scrapper. |
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| Then, when this blows up in their face, their teammates, who're expecting a modicum of aggro control, are the ones who pay the price. |
Under construction
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If you could define the best Tanker in the world what would it be capable of?|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
I did so because I *know* I'm not the best Tanker in the world and that power is a decent crutch
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Most powers are optional. They all add some form of flexibility. Not just to what a character can do but sometimes what teams can do.
A single scrapper with Confront can go into an STF and rule out the need for a Tanker, then rule out the need for a Defender, Corrupter, Mastermind, Controller, Kheldian, Dominator....other scrappers, you get the picture, all at the same time. Near enough see it Mo'd with the right players.
Then go and tank on a Hami raid and then go show Anti Matter around his trial.
Confront added a lot of flexibility and survivability. Not by itself, but used with other powers you can certainly say that team make ups are without need this and need that.
A scrapper like that can do alot for practically "any team make up" really despite most people not seeing a scrapper as something that has any regard for a team.
Tankers are atleast meant to Tank, I don't know why some people choose to solo them constantly but again powers are optional and just because some Tanker took taunt doesn't mean they're going to excel with it at every level since 10.
I think rather than shy away from things and talk BBQ lets just hit it head on.
A tauntless Tanker, will have chosen his/her limitations. People will either be happier with them or they will not. I for one do not care what people have or who people choose to team with and the best Tanker in the world is not going to care what he/she teams with.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I don't disagree with anything in your post but that I might address this bit.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Tankers are atleast meant to Tank, I don't know why some people choose to solo them constantly. . . .
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A person would solo with a Tanker constantly because the way the character handles fits their expectation of how a particular type of superhero would function.
I have been greatly enjoying wading my new Tanker at his lowish level by wading him into crowd sizes and compositions that would have downed any of my brutes or scrappers at similar level.
I may never have that, "Did I just hit that guy for 700 points of damage" moment on my Tanker, but I suspect I will have many, "Wow. . .I walked out of that" moments.
Under construction
I did an STF with a Tauntless Tanker on Justice.
It was a PUG, it went very well indeed. I was on a Blaster though, my only 50 on Justice (soon to be caught up by another Blaster).
Fortunately on Justice, there are good players to make a Tanker without taunt unnecessary, but in doing so they'll make the Tank unnecessary. That spot would be best replaced by someother Joe and despite the fact the team was capable, they would of preferred a Tanker with taunt, just to smoothen the edges, and boy there was edges.
What Tankers should be doing is offering efficiency. Tauntless Tankers have limits to how much efficiency they can offer any team make up. I expect Tankers to tank for any team make up. We all know there are limits versus X and quite frankly without taunt in a PuG it can mean you're allowing yourself to give an enemy everything he could possibly desire.
Darkest Night might be rather nice, it's certainly one of them alluring powers as it has a lot to offer and suffices to a point but meh as if I think that's an alternative. When I exemp I expect to exemp and still Tank for any team make up. There is not just redirection to handle its sometimes also about aoe placement. Sometimes you want to dictate to an AV what AoEs it can use, where and when. As a Tanker in general you can't save people from themselves when it comes to AoEs but sometimes you might actually have to.
If I was tanking Ghost Widow for a team of Blappers then as eggs will be eggs I'll be out to limit her pbaoes.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.