An in-game conversation about tauntless Tankers
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2011-12-28 10:07 in Tankers
*Facepalm*
This is what happens when newbies read the description of a tanker. It makes them out to be insanely strong melee and defense. Rather than a shield for the team... >.<
Quote:
I love the Chance for Psi damage proc in that set, especially when using Taunt on a large group in areas like Perez Park. |
Originally Posted by KnightofKhonsu
This is why I always make it a point to slot the entire set of a Taunt set like 'Perfect Zinger' in my taunt power. Range is included in two of the 6 enhancements, and every little bit helps.
 |
>Go Hunt. Kill Skuls.
>Walk up to group.
>Fire off Taunt
>Psi Damage kicks in defeating part of the mob
>Laughing hysterically as the taunt was so intimidating that they just fell over.
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Quote:
Try World of Confusion with Reactive Interface. <.<
|
Originally Posted by SolarSentai
I love the Chance for Psi damage proc in that set, especially when using Taunt on a large group in areas like Perez Park.
>Go Hunt. Kill Skuls. >Walk up to group. >Fire off Taunt >Psi Damage kicks in defeating part of the mob >Laughing hysterically as the taunt was so intimidating that they just fell over. |
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Quote:
So confused that they spontaneously combust? I approve!
|
Originally Posted by Aneko
Try World of Confusion with Reactive Interface. <.<
|
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Quote:
Agreed.|
Originally Posted by KillerShrike
It's a generally held belief that a Tanker's role on teams is to manage the aggro of enemies, keeping attention off of less durable teammates so that the team as a whole can move forward more efficiently.
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Quote:
| Personally, I'm fond of Perfect Zinger w/ Chance for Psi in Taunt, but Mocking Beratement is decent too. |
Me: *BURP*POINT*
Enemy: Oh! What he's said has traumatized me so! OW my poor widdle head!
And I miss being able to put it in my aggro aura!
Enemy: His very PRESENCE is so offensive it's causing me physical pain!
Quote:
| And even if you want to play an aggressive tanker, if you want a more aggressive build without taunt, you can use two builds, one for tanking (with taunt), and one for smashing (without taunt). |
And on an Inv tank, you WANT to be pulling as many enemies in as you can handle.
Just set up monitors for your defense numbers and watch them doing this:
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Some of my characters need it, some don't.
-My Dark/Dark/Soul Brute doesn't need it; he has Dark Obliteration, Soul Drain, a damage aura, Dark Consumption, and Darkest Night.
-My Shield/Axe Tanker has it; it helps grab stragglers who somehow didn't feel like paying attention after getting hit with Shield Charge and Whirling Axe and Against All Odds.
-My Fire/Fire Brute doesn't need it because Fire and AoE and Burn.
-My Elec/Invul Brute doesn't need it; Invincibility, Lightning Rod and Spring Attack.
-My Titan/Willpower Brute will be getting it at 47/49 because Willpower is a little weak in the taunt aura and the TW Taunt animation is AWESOME.
-My SS/Elec Brute doesn't need it; Foot Stomp, Power Sink, and Lightning Field do the job.
-My Dark/Kin Tanker doesn't have it; Burst, Death Shroud, Dark Regen, Oppressive Gloom and Darkest Night do the job.
Taunt is subjective per player/AT/Powerset. Both sides of the argument are fail. Some players can manage aggro without Taunt better than players who have it, and that's to their credit. Other players have Taunt for it's purpose and that's to their credit. You can't denounce either one.
This game is about options and what works best for you as a player. Neither side has any place in saying what's best for an AT.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Quote:
I have 1 Tank, 17 Bill build, made to be lead Tank.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Words of wisdom.
I've got tanks with taunt, and I've got tanks without. They both work just fine if you know what you're doing. |
Pre inherent fitness: I had no taunt, my RttC made up for it. I told everyone i didn't have taunt, so when u get in over your head, come to me with your problem. Never an issue, not even on CoP runs. Till a SG wanted to run a CoP, and stated to me, without ever knowing or seeing my tank, that they wouldn't take it cause i have no taunt. I was told i was an idiot and more.
To that point, i had several Mo badges, Pain Killer badge and more. People who had tanks taught me to tank, taught me to herd, taught me about bottle necking and anything useful, they also taught me that a solid build Tank who pays attention, doesn't need taunt if he has other powers that auto taunt, like RttC.
When the fitness pool became inherent, i picked up taunt cause i didn't have to rearrange any slots. Having taunt didn't make me a better Tank, didn't make me weaker either, it was just useful at times.
That said... what i quoted is the 100% truth!
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Quote:
I take it for the -range. It makes the mobs come to me and my taunt aura, instead of standing there and shooting at me from afar. It also delays their response attack because of the need to close the distance before they can retaliate.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Taunt is one of the only -Range powers in the game. I even use it solo. YMMV but I'd personally never skip it.
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Quality of life with some utility.
Quote:
See, that's where debate can pop up - on tankers, I think one should sacrifice for survivability, and I totally agree with you. Others might say they give up too much to get to mag 12 kb prot, since 8 pts is worthless.
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Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
Then there are all the Fiery Aura Tankers with either no knockback protection or only 4 points worth...
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Quote:
It's amusing though to see the mitos bounce them around like a damn ping pong ball.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
See, that's where debate can pop up - on tankers, I think one should sacrifice for survivability, and I totally agree with you. Others might say they give up too much to get to mag 12 kb prot, since 8 pts is worthless.
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@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too
Quote:
Since it was the only thing going on at 4:30am, it wasn't hard to do. |
Originally Posted by Aneko
I would never have followed that conversation for that long, though.
|
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Quote:
Personally I've found that 12pts protection is barely different from 8, but 8 is a huge leap from 4 and 16 is another huge leap from 8. So, when on something like a Fire or Dark Amour I'm either going for 8 or 16pts of protection, and with the great assortment of KB IOs available it's generally not difficult.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
See, that's where debate can pop up - on tankers, I think one should sacrifice for survivability, and I totally agree with you. Others might say they give up too much to get to mag 12 kb prot, since 8 pts is worthless.
|
On a meleer I especially despise KB and do my best to negate as much as I can. YMMV in what is enough.
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I teamed with a tauntless WP/Stone on a Posi 1 once. I wound up tanking the TF on my level 16 Shield scrapper because the WP/Stone simply couldn't hold aggro.
Quote:
Wow, 16? On my fire tanks I use 4 points. Yes, I occasionally get bounced around, but I just deal with it. |
Originally Posted by syrusb
Personally I've found that 12pts protection is barely different from 8, but 8 is a huge leap from 4 and 16 is another huge leap from 8. So, when on something like a Fire or Dark Amour I'm either going for 8 or 16pts of protection, and with the great assortment of KB IOs available it's generally not difficult.
On a meleer I especially despise KB and do my best to negate as much as I can. YMMV in what is enough. |
If you look at the knockback powers that baddies get, it is apparent that the huge majority of knockback comes in 4 'strengths'. Most bad guys get mag 2 or Mag 3. Most AV's gets Mag10.
And then there's a few 'specialists' that get Mag5. Things like Imperial explodey bots, Ruin mages, Council bosses, those sorts. I find on high defense builds the Mag5 stuff rarely hits me, as well.
So, Mag4 protection will cover you against most common stuff, Mag8 will stop the few 'specialist knockers' and Mag12 will stop the huge majority of knockback.
Off the top of my head I can't think of anything higher than a Mag10.... I'd be happy to get schooled, though.
Quote:
The subject came up because of Hamidon raids. 10 is not enough if you're taunting mitos.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Off the top of my head I can't think of anything higher than a Mag10.... I'd be happy to get schooled, though.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Quote:
Now, see, you made me go look. |
Originally Posted by Aneko
The subject came up because of Hamidon raids. 10 is not enough if you're taunting mitos.
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First, this page is MUCH bigger than it used to be. You don't realize how much work the Dev's have done lately until you look at a list like this: WOW. They have added a LOT of new stuff.
Second, it's a lot more diverse than it used to be. But still the huge majority if things falls within Mag4 protection. There's quite a lot that's under Mag8 now, though. Hmmm....
Well, if it gets to be an issue, I'll look at a second IO. For now, it's still fine.
Oh, and Mito's do Mag5 according to that page. Is that information wrong? Or do they stack or something?
Oh, and the link:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Knockbac...ockback_Powers
Was just about to post a link to that article on KB, you beat me to it. 
And Taunt is worth taking just for the -range debuff, to help keep things (purple con bosses I'm looking at you) from running away.
Quote:
Cytoplasmic Blast and Burst each have 12.98 magnitude as used by a level 50 Tanker, according to in-game information. Make of that what you will. <.<
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Oh, and Mito's do Mag5 according to that page. Is that information wrong? Or do they stack or something?
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
It's mag 10, the script used to generate that list for the wiki page failed to take into account AT modifiers... So ignore what's there for now please.
We were doing the 'Take down Diabolique' mish in Imperial City. One thing I found out last night, the hard way, that Diabolique can somehow bypass my Elect Armor tanker's Grounded power with her attacks knocking me back or down every time she attacked me. That and she nearly drained me of my endurance or slowed me down every third attempt. To top it off, she alpha'd me face planting me like I was a lvl 1 tanker. It was as if I had no defenses at all. The only thing that protects me in some way was I loaded up on luck inspirations! I don't know if they changed her in anyway, I don't remember her being able to knockdown any of my brutes or tankers equipped with protections against that. Talk about frustrating!
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
Quote:
My Fire/Kin has 20pts of Knockback protection >_>|
Originally Posted by syrusb
Personally I've found that 12pts protection is barely different from 8, but 8 is a huge leap from 4 and 16 is another huge leap from 8. So, when on something like a Fire or Dark Amour I'm either going for 8 or 16pts of protection, and with the great assortment of KB IOs available it's generally not difficult.
On a meleer I especially despise KB and do my best to negate as much as I can. YMMV in what is enough. |
Overkill? Perhaps... >
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| Home Server: Virtue |
Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
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Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Knockbac...ockback_Powers
is updated!
Some powers were higher than they should be, some were lower, but all should be correct now. For ones where the kb magnitude increases with level, the number for the top of the level range is shown.
So check your favorite enemy groups and see if you have enough -KB!
And don't forget to check: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Purple_Patch
Enemies that are a higher level than you get a boost to KB magnitude (among other things).
Quote:
She wasn't bypassing anything, she was just plain-ole cheatin'. |
Originally Posted by KnightofKhonsu
We were doing the 'Take down Diabolique' mish in Imperial City. One thing I found out last night, the hard way, that Diabolique can somehow bypass my Elect Armor tanker's Grounded power with her attacks knocking me back or down every time she attacked me. That and she nearly drained me of my endurance or slowed me down every third attempt. To top it off, she alpha'd me face planting me like I was a lvl 1 tanker. It was as if I had no defenses at all. The only thing that protects me in some way was I loaded up on luck inspirations! I don't know if they changed her in anyway, I don't remember her being able to knockdown any of my brutes or tankers equipped with protections against that. Talk about frustrating!
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According to the ParagonWiki page that Codewalker updated (Thanks mang, yu guys rawk), Diabolique does Mag36 knockback. At +3 to you, that'd go up to Mag48-ish.
That'll knock around anybody. No shame in it.
Although as a Tanker, it's annoying as the dickens.... Get moar buffs?
Quote:
Well that just plain sucks. I can't get anymore buffs than I had, including those given by our Defender & Troller...my tanker is a lvl 32 that was parading around like a plain ole lvl 50 without incarnate abilities. She was a true lvl 54. Although she is high as she is, I was able to keep her attention from the others until she face planted on 3 different occasions. When she alpha'd me the first time, I pissed her off! lol Oh and every time I taunted her she suffered psi damage! |
Originally Posted by mauk2
She wasn't bypassing anything, she was just plain-ole cheatin'.
According to the ParagonWiki page that Codewalker updated (Thanks mang, yu guys rawk), Diabolique does Mag36 knockback. At +3 to you, that'd go up to Mag48-ish. That'll knock around anybody. No shame in it. Although as a Tanker, it's annoying as the dickens.... Get moar buffs? |
Got to love Perfect Zinger.
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.