Details on Dark Astoria Makeover?

i admit i am utterly dumbfounded by people caring that much for the fog, it was cute gimmick, once or twice, after that you quickly realized it was a bandage over a zone with a great concept and nothing else going for it(even the "giant monster" was simply an upscaled bp minion. I mean yes, it was a neat trick but this is in answer to our requests for a incarnate path that is solo-small team capable AND its not the lazy cop out people were saying would happen with simply a tip missions setup AND it doesn't deal with praetoria which some players are tired of and we still are getting push back because of two gimmicks? You mention liking first ward, if anything first ward is one reason i'm confident they can make the zone more than an empty two trick pony, because they did good things with first ward, or the haunted house. So what im saying is, lets actually wait till we see what they do with the new zone in terms of atmosphere, because they have done some good stuff very recently with a death-focused supernatural zone. and the old zone will still exist in all its barren wonder for people in oroboros, so you can still enjoy fighting there to your heart's content witht he effect you like, but now we actually see a story that seemed to have been forgotten be developed.

as for the circle of thorns, i do wonder some times if that was not the start of a problematic trend in the forums. people snapped to judgement and made a fuss, even though they worked with incomplete information, but they got a win, so i have noticed the community now snaps to judgement and screams very quickly these days. It does make me feel worse for having been a part of the cot thing, as it seems to have taught the community to be unreasonable and to not wait till it has actual information to make a judgement.

This is pure speculation of course since unlike some I never try to assume I know exactly what the devs are planning but I would say when the new coop Dark Astoria arrives a new system for entry will be introduced that will accomodate both hero and villains. ... Similar to either the RWZ or Cimerora. My best guess would be something like Cimerora and this would become the only means to access the zone. The old DA teleport beacon your sg now has will become a means to access the ghost DA in the same manner as what happened with Galaxy City. It just doesnt make sense to do this any other way with causing confusion.. the other way we now find ourselves with two seperate beacons to two different Dark Astorias hero side.

Now there is another option... unlike what they did with Galaxy completely remove the use of the old teleport beacon in bases and the only available means to go there after plaques and badges would be directly through Ouroborus. At that point in addition to establishing entrances in a few zone on both red and blue sides a whole new set of exploration badges could be set for the new DA and acquiring them would also allow SG members to teleport into the zone from their bases.

I dont see a problem with either solution .. villains never had access to the old, soon to be ghost, DA prior to this switch so they lose nothing either way. Unlike Galaxy Dark Astoria has no contacts so there is very little that needs to be done to make this switch.. a few contacts and even TFs occasionally send teams there but those missions can easily be fixed to send players elsewhere to accomlish the same things. While it was great that the old SG beacon allowed members to access ghost galaxy without going through Ouro.. The biggest advantage being that now players dont need to ask anyone to lay down a ortal for them to get into Ouroborus and collect the exp badge along with Keeper of the secret. Now if you belong to a suer group at level 14 just head into ghost galaxy, make your way to the train station and ick Ouroborus as you destination..pretty easy since it is your only choice. Once there grab the exp badge and earn your own ouro portal summoner. Well since we already have that advantage through the old galaxy beacon we really dont need to clutter upthe base and use up more power and control having another telepad dedicated to a ghost zone. Heck if you are badge and plaque hunting and belong to an SG.. just hit Galaxy and use the train to get to Ouro and then go back through the portal on Ouroborus and grab the badges and plaques in DA.

Shadow Shard. First Ward. Both are incredibly aesthetically awesome zones.

Guess which one I've actually spent any amount of time in?
Yeah, First Ward. Because it has content.

There is nothing at all wrong with the look of Dark Astoria. But it could fart rainbows every ten minutes and it would still have nothing to DO there.

Sadly, the Devs seem hellbent on their 'Redo ALL the EVERYTHING!' rather than leaving the bits that aren't broke and instead swiping everything away to do it all over.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Overcast Astoria?

If that could be done using the phasing tech that would be brilliant!

;thumbsup

I sort of agree with this sentiment BUT in this case I think they are progressing the story of the zone. If that is the case then I am more than happy with the change.

I'd like the fog kept to be honest, but I have technical issues with it aside from the whole "flying into buildings" thing

No, it doesn't need to "stop being what it is." That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've heard yet.

If I have a book full of blank pages (but with a nice photo on the cover) and put it in the library, nobody's going to read it. They might look at it and wonder why it's there, but they're not going to read it. Why? There's nothing there to read. That doesn't mean it needs to stop "being what it is." It doesn't need to be torn out, burned and replaced with geraniums. It needs to be written in so people have something to read, reason to do more than just go "Huh. ok," and go to a different book.

Similarly, DA does not need to stop "being what it is." The zone can be left looking as it does NOW - fog, ghosts and all. Those are part of what DEFINES DA and makes it stand out from a boring everyday city zone. They're what get people wondering about it. All it needed were contacts and arcs going into its specific storyline. Period. Suggestions for this have been made for YEARS. And yet the devs have decided to tear it down and do... *this* to it.

I put in links to multiple suggestions - one of which would have you KEEP going back, and ended up with Incarnate "stuff" to do that (FINALLY!) would have nothing at all to do with the Wading Pool of Irritation OR Praetoria.

But apparently the devs would rather tear everything down and screw it up, destroying what made it stand out and made people interested, wondering what happened in the zone - a question that would be addressed by *adding contacts and arcs,* not bulldozing it.

No, I have no faith in them at this point, if they think this is a "good idea."

/this, exactly.

If this is how they're going, I'd hate to think what else they have in mind. It's like "restoring" the washington monument by replacing it with a shopping mall.

While I agree the Shadow Shard would be a good Incarnate zone I think it works less well as a solo zone. So I am glad and surprised they picked DA for this instead.

For me, this is very similar to the Circle of Thorns revamp which has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Both the CoT and DA needed updating. They both needed new textures and DA needed some actual content. But their core concept, the things that made them great, be it long robes or fog didn't need touching. So it's one thing to update the look or add some content but another thing to rip up the group or zone by its roots and change everything.

The fact that the fog is gone leads me to believe that the Devs are heading more in the latter direction and I feel that when we see the new DA, it won't have any of the things in it that made it so great. I'm happy to be proved wrong (hat still on standby).

However, you are correct in that we should wait before passing judgement. The new Faultline is excellent compared to its predecessor and if the Devs can make DA look as good as First Ward but still keep with DA's dark, oppressive feel, then I will be content. But as I said, the fact that the fog is gone does not fill me with hope.

Keep in mind, the CoT weren't the only thing updated recently. Mercy Island had it's contacts, starting points, and what not revamped while AP was graphically redone. And I'd consider both to be large successes.

And to be honest, if DA is nothing without the fog, then maybe the zone does need a total revamp.

It's nothing without the fog and ghosts and mysterious backstory and atmosphere because that is all they put in there.

In any case, this is a computer game, and with resources, anything can be programmed. It is possible to completely revamp the zone into Death Metal Hell, and at the same time keep our creepy expy of Silent Hill.

And that is what I am asking for.

Just one neighborhood-sized area with fog, vanishing ghosts, empty playgrounds, the unstaffed yet functional hospital, and fog. At the hero-side entrance. That will make the rest of the zone aesthetic even more dramatic by comparison.

All I've seen mention of toning down is the fog. According more thorough posts that aren't the OP, the lore and ghosts aren't being removed. Just because it's Incarnate doesn't mean it's all about the Well of Furies.

In reference to the removal of ghosts and fog.

I like this idea.

Make DA a solo friendly incarnate zone.

Make the entire Shadow Shard a group friendly incarnate area.

Good comments. I exerpted parts, but I could have easily quoted the entire posts.

I have postulated that CoH was apparently DESIGNED as a STREET-SWEEPING game, with some missions thrown in. Thus we have so many zones in which THERE IS NOTHING TO DO BUT STREET-SWEEP.

That is not what the game has become-- it is now MISSION-CENTRIC. With that, there is "nothing to do" in DA.

So add contacts and missions Dark Astoria. Voila, something to do. Resolve the possibly conflicting lore and give the missions the spooky feel that the zone invokes.

I remember when they added the Zone Guide Person near the gate way back when, and thinking, "Dang, that is pretty brave to stand with your back to a zone filled with all those zombies." That is the effect that the creepiness of the zone has on many, many folks.

Not me. I have wanted contacts and arcs in keeping with the atmosphere that resolved the conflicts in the lore. There have been threads through the years in which a lot of folks have asked for that. I recall virtually no sentiment for "DA is great as it is. Don't do or add anything."

There are a good number of folks who do not like the fog. There have been some suggestions as to how to keep the effect but make it easier to navigate. That would be the ideal, I think.

I think you have set up an either/or that really is not either/or.

"Tied to DA lore" means nothing if the Devs shoehorn in the very silly sentient, insane, etc. Well of Furies business. It is like saying that it is "tied in to classic Superman lore" only to find out that Jor-El is now the leader of a men's glee club and his son is shot into orbit due to a ghastly error by the high school rocketry club. What??

Bring on the 50+ Incarnate content; lots of folks want that, just do it elsewhere; bring on the Well of Furies lore, but please do not taint DA with it is my premise.

As far as "waiting 'til we see more of what the new DA has to offer" this sounds very much like "those screenshots of the New Circle of Thorns were not official. Wait until the official announcement." At which time, of course, it is then too late to have any hope of affecting the final product, and the Buns of Steel Mages would now be part of the official lore in Jor-El's Glee Club in Paragon City. If the Well of Furies is bad lore in my opinion, I cannot see how it does not work out that Well of Furies+Dark Astoria=More Bad Lore.

To your point, it is NOT NECESSARY to an "update" of the zone to completely eliminate the atmospheric elements and bring in the silly Well of Furies lore. It is NOT an either/or, unless you are taking the approach that the way to "update" the Malaise pants is to eliminate them. That is certainly "A" way to go about it, but not necessarily "THE" way to do it.

The major problems with Dark Astoria were 1) street-sweeping was all there was to do there unless you had the stray mission or Adamastor was out and 2) the lore was confusing and possibly contradictory. It had a unique story and a unique atmosphere. Updating the graphics, as I understand it, would not necessarily mean having to eliminate the story and the atmosphere, and could make it easier for travel. So to uproot and chuck everything, ie, fog, ghosts and current story, seems to be overkill. The zone could be "fixed" with contacts, arcs and better graphics. Bringing in the Well of Furies and a "new look" causes all sorts of concern given the Circle of Thorns experience.

was mentioned, but they don't have the tools to do it right

I would be just as fine with the developers scattering groups of empty skulls around the zone, with empty eye-orbits holding bits of decaying phosphorus casting an eerie light.... I don't think we're going to GET that, but it would be cool.

We are also not getting jackolanterns in DA because they're Halloween-specific. They don't frighten me, they are nostalgic. However I like such bits of ambient fluff, and there you have it.

I would also be fine with actual ghosts such as those seen in the Ghost aura, loose in the zone, floating in groups around the cemetary, here and there all over the place. Keep the vanishing people-ghosts and add some traditional ghosts.

You know what else I would like? Remember those awesome red eyes looking in through the windows of the Haunted Mansion? Put 'em in the zone. Scary eyes should peer at you from underneath bushes and from dense patches of shadow.

I like it scary.

Alas, posts on a forum are a horrible way to have a conversation. It is very easy to come off in an unintended manner. While it is easy to say "No offense intended," hopefully none is actually being given. It is not my desire for my end of this to come off as snarky, but I am leery that the printed medium has limitations, so bear that in mind.

Now, you may have a point there.

Conceivably, it could work out that there could be Incarnate content that does not involve the Well of Furies. Given that Incarnate status derives from the Well of Furies, I do not see that as being possible. It would be like having Superman content that does not involve Krypton. Still, it could turn out to be Not So Bad.

Let me reiterate that you may also have a point that we know very little about what things will actually look like or the storyline will be, other than Noble Savage verifying that fog and ghosts will be gone. Having been a participant over the years in a good number of threads asking for specific things to be done to Dark Astoria and discussing its aspects, I find the announced plans to be dismaying in the extreme. It is as though we described a Big Mac on our wish list and the Devs have announced a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken is on the way. I may end up liking it, even REALLY liking it--- but it is not what we ordered, if you will. *heavy sigh*

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk