Why Fighting Cole should not be a Trial
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2011-10-25 21:21 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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You made me "teehee"....I don't like making that sound.
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Originally Posted by Venture
Fixed.
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Sadly, I think we all know it WILL be a Trial. Because Trials are the big new shiny, and I've never seen a live Dev let go of a New Shiny without serious application of blunt trauma and/or broken fingers >_>
Because don't we all know how SUPER it should make people feel to be a grunt amongst 24 fighting wave after wave of faceless minions, and how AWESOME it is to get pimp slapped by some haxxed up AV with all these COOL gimmicks and-
Yeah. I'm still sick of Incarnate content. It could have been so great, and then they screwed up everything after the Alpha slot. /golfclap
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Ah, but remember, that was pre-retcon Tyrant from back when Praetoria was still the throwaway evil goatee-wearing mirror universe rather than the increasingly complex mess that is has become today.
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Originally Posted by Jagged
After all I have already kicked Tyrant's butt once before when I rescued that wimp Statesman from his clutches.
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Shoulder-pads! I believe the CoX version of evil goatee-beards are shoulder-pads. Remember kids, shoulder pads are badass!|
Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
Ah, but remember, that was pre-retcon Tyrant from back when Praetoria was still the throwaway evil goatee-wearing mirror universe rather than the increasingly complex mess that is has become today.
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Still not convinced I didn't interrupt something kinky between the two of them
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
bah! spad beat me to it...damn you job!
Is Tyrant no longer in that mission then?
If true that's naff.
I still kicked his butt though 
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Cole should defeat us all, and then the next pieces of content should be a "Days of Future Past" type world.
I agree that taking on Cole shouldn't be a trial, but I have nothing to contribute when it comes to how a Cole TF would work.
Instead, I say this: If it is a trial, it better be MASSIVE and EPIC. I'm not talking about the epic level we've seen before with the new story arcs. I want a new level of epic. Something that puts any players who go after Cole on the top, which also means it would have to be extremely difficult as well, so everyone has to contribute in some way.
Well, either that or you could add a few Goliaths doing the Robot. 
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Cole has essentially unlimited power because the Well is giving it to him directly, in exchange for him being it's puppet any time it sees fit. |
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
depending on the direction they go...Cole should not be soloable if the Well is giving him more power than we get.
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We, on the other hand, are basically stealing it, with the benefit of the Well not being able to take us over at will.
Personally, I would not be surprised in the slightest if it turns out the Well has been pulling Cole's puppet strings this whole time, and is the real enemy here, not Cole. Seems logical given that they made a point of having the Well do that during the Ramiel arc.
Mechanically, I expect 2 fights with Cole when we do fight him. Similar to Romulus/Nictus Romulus. One fight in which it's just Cole, and he's relatively easy, and a second fight in which the Well decides to inhabit Cole and take us on personally. The second one would be MUCH tougher.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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QFT|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Sadly, I think we all know it WILL be a Trial. Because Trials are the big new shiny, and I've never seen a live Dev let go of a New Shiny without serious application of blunt trauma and/or broken fingers >_>
Because don't we all know how SUPER it should make people feel to be a grunt amongst 24 fighting wave after wave of faceless minions, and how AWESOME it is to get pimp slapped by some haxxed up AV with all these COOL gimmicks and- Yeah. I'm still sick of Incarnate content. It could have been so great, and then they screwed up everything after the Alpha slot. /golfclap |
I acknowledge that Trials are the new shiny and they have their place. They are, however, the absolute worst tool for telling a story. Captions, NPC chatter, explanations... they all get drowned out in the screaming and spam of 24 people trying to do their best to deal with whatever gimmick is being thrown at them. Hence why we have Papa Smurf in Ouroboros to belittle us and throw walls of text at anyone who gives two hoots about the story.
As little as I care for it, the final showdown with Cole (which please, I hope to whatever god I have favour with, is the next and final Praetorian trial) needs to be epic to finish this chapter off. And I feel that the story and resolution cannot be told in the ham-fisted manner that Trials attempt to. I also agree that being one face in 24 wailing on a 54+3 AV is probably the most unheroic I can feel. I would prefer a TF too. An epic one, with +54 foes, sure, but one where we can feel like heroes and not just a face in the crowd.
Alas, I suspect it is already a done deal and the Trial is already being developed, tested and *shudder* 'written' as we speak.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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He's been replaced with one of his Olympian Guard clones.
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Originally Posted by Jagged
Is Tyrant no longer in that mission then?
If true that's naff. I still kicked his butt though |
@Golden Girl
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Nope. You've gone from "I've singlehandedly torn through all the big-bad Praetorians" in the old mission to "I've been told to sit back and watch like a good third-stringer as Statesman/Positron/Whoever else they've thrown in the mission to aggro on things a mile away and one shot them finishes the mission for me, and defeat not Tyrant but a guard who's been raiding his dress rack." |
Originally Posted by Jagged
Is Tyrant no longer in that mission then?
If true that's naff. I still kicked his butt though |
Yeah. The new version sucks.
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You know what would have been a clever way to do it? To have had Tyrant actually *do* the retcon by traveling back in time and striking his deal with the well so that the "new" Praetoria storyline comes into existence. It would also give further justification for Ouroboros to be involved and hosting the seemingly random assortment of Incarnate NPCs who keep turning up there.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Nope. You've gone from "I've singlehandedly torn through all the big-bad Praetorians" in the old mission to "I've been told to sit back and watch like a good third-stringer as Statesman/Positron/Whoever else they've thrown in the mission to aggro on things a mile away and one shot them finishes the mission for me, and defeat not Tyrant but a guard who's been raiding his dress rack."
Yeah. The new version sucks. |
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I agree with you but...we're NOT going to get that.|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Now it's likely we'll be fighting him in a trial, but I want to voice my opinion that I hope we do not. Rather I would prefer a sort of special TF/story arc, much like the Ouroboros and Signature story arcs where we CAN solo it but we can also team it, but this time as a good old eight man team. |
It's going to be a trial, you and 23 others against a crushing AV that it probably going to be at least a level 54+4. And you WILL have to run from colored patches on the ground. Of this I am nearly certain.
We may have started our quest to defeat Cole solo, and for level 1-20 you could go it alone.
But we're not going to get our grand climax and resolution.
We don't get to be Rocky Balboa fighting Drago, or Ripley versus the Alien Queen. No Optimus Prime vs Megatron throwdown. No Luke versus Darth Vader.
Instead, it's going to be Darth Vader versus Luke, Han, Chewie, Leia, Billy Dee Williams, C3P0, R2D2, Porkins, Admiral Ackbar, Jar Jar Binks, Kirk, Spock and half the the Rebel Alliance forces all crammed into one room, running from colored patches on the ground and obeying the red text.
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I finally got around to running the revised Maria Jenkins arc a few weeks ago, and I endorse this view completely. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Nope. You've gone from "I've singlehandedly torn through all the big-bad Praetorians" in the old mission to "I've been told to sit back and watch like a good third-stringer as Statesman/Positron/Whoever else they've thrown in the mission to aggro on things a mile away and one shot them finishes the mission for me, and defeat not Tyrant but a guard who's been raiding his dress rack."
Yeah. The new version sucks. |
My first character to hit 50 did so while fighting through Tyrant's throne room in the old version, and it genuinely felt special. It was a severe disappointment to finally return to that mission and find that, instead of fighting Tyrant himself, I was being fobbed off with some nameless mook. It looked to me as if they didn't even bother coming up with a new end-boss -- just changed the name on the old Tyrant model and called it a day.
I don't see why it has to be this way. Marauder may need a small army of alleged demigods to fight him in the trial, but doing Maria's missions, I've kicked his butt up one side and down the other three times, all by myself.
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Ewww. Glad I did the old version then.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Nope. You've gone from "I've singlehandedly torn through all the big-bad Praetorians" in the old mission to "I've been told to sit back and watch like a good third-stringer as Statesman/Positron/Whoever else they've thrown in the mission to aggro on things a mile away and one shot them finishes the mission for me, and defeat not Tyrant but a guard who's been raiding his dress rack."
Yeah. The new version sucks. |
They should put Tyrant back in and have some text about the Well denying him access. Or maybe because of his defeat at our hands, Tyrant submits to the Well to access more power.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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If you turn your difficulty up high enough your "helpers" tend to get themselves dead pretty quickly, although not until after they aggro half the map (Serpent Drummer is the worst for that; who decided to give a brainless NPC "helper" +perception again?) States is the only one I couldn't get killed, probably because he appears in the Battlemaiden missions. He's also the most annoying one, what with his hand-clap spam. What you are doing Statesman, it is the opposite of help. L2play, kthxbai, /kick Statesman.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Nope. You've gone from "I've singlehandedly torn through all the big-bad Praetorians" in the old mission to "I've been told to sit back and watch like a good third-stringer as Statesman/Positron/Whoever else they've thrown in the mission to aggro on things a mile away and one shot them finishes the mission for me, and defeat not Tyrant but a guard who's been raiding his dress rack."
Yeah. The new version sucks. |
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Hes not to difficult to get killed in the Jade Spider mission, since he's guarded by Ghost Widow and she turns his brain to jelly.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
States is the only one I couldn't get killed
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This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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It's still a throwaway evil goatee-wearing mirror universe. It's just one of those annoying pieces of trash that sticks to your hand when you try to throw it out and you have to shake your hand repeatedly to get it into the can....
| Ah, but remember, that was pre-retcon Tyrant from back when Praetoria was still the throwaway evil goatee-wearing mirror universe rather than the increasingly complex mess that is has become today. |
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Just an FYI, but apparently there's tech already used in the trials that not only ramps up the mob count based on the number of players in the mission, but also the stats of notable npcs that you encounter as well.
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
With the upcoming issue, we will have effectively run down the list of Praetorian AVs with the exception of Diabolique (who's pretty much thrown aside into the First Ward) and Infernal, leaving only Emperor Cole himself to throw down with.
Now it's likely we'll be fighting him in a trial, but I want to voice my opinion that I hope we do not. Rather I would prefer a sort of special TF/story arc, much like the Ouroboros and Signature story arcs where we CAN solo it but we can also team it, but this time as a good old eight man team. The reason is so that we have a better sense of just how far we've come as Incarnates and in our power. I can't help but feel the full effect of an Incarnate character's power gets drowned out in the sea of 18-24 other players, and at the same time still have a better measure than just turning regular stuff up to +4/x8. (Especially since in regular content, we can't use all of our level shifts) Plus, a by not having it be a trial, it could let players take the story and weight of the scenario in more, make it feel more personal. Make it feel like after wasting all of Cole's croonies, he decides to settle things with you face to face. This also would let the individual player feel like a greater contribution to the battle than just another small tick off of HP from an endless, eroding wash of damage. As far as trying to keep Cole from feeling like a pushover when you do invite seven other friends, a possible suggestion is to give Cole a special Self-buff aura that draws on players-characters only that boosts his max health and other stats per-player on the map. Edit: I realize only after I posted how condescending the title sounds, I probably should of worded it: "here's why I hope the fighting Cole will not be a trial" |
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Not quite, no |
Originally Posted by Venture
It's still a throwaway evil goatee-wearing mirror universe.
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@Golden Girl
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That made me laugh like a loon, thanks! |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
We don't get to be Rocky Balboa fighting Drago, or Ripley versus the Alien Queen. No Optimus Prime vs Megatron throwdown. No Luke versus Darth Vader.
Instead, it's going to be Darth Vader versus Luke, Han, Chewie, Leia, Billy Dee Williams, C3P0, R2D2, Porkins, Admiral Ackbar, Jar Jar Binks, Kirk, Spock and half the the Rebel Alliance forces all crammed into one room, running from colored patches on the ground and obeying the red text. |
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| It would also give further justification for Ouroboros to be involved and hosting the seemingly random assortment of Incarnate NPCs who keep turning up there. |
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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This gives me an idea: In the final trial where we fight Tyrant, have him be literally unbeatable and result in a dramatic escape sequence where you have to get the hell out of dodge before he pastes you across the walls. Then after THAT, have a suitably epic taskforce or trial involving the menders sending you back in time to stop Tyrant making that deal in the first place, thus setting history back how it should be.|
Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
You know what would have been a clever way to do it? To have had Tyrant actually *do* the retcon by traveling back in time and striking his deal with the well so that the "new" Praetoria storyline comes into existence. It would also give further justification for Ouroboros to be involved and hosting the seemingly random assortment of Incarnate NPCs who keep turning up there.
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Although that'd be a massive undertaking for the dev team cause it'd mean they'd have redevelop Praetoria entirely if they wanted to keep it in the game. So that'll probably never happen, regardless of how awesome it'd be.
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Yes, I add both these tabs to all my characters. Then I can see what I missed during the event/mission pandemonium.|
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
NPC chatter and "cutscene captions"; they are two separate channels.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Instead, it's going to be Darth Vader versus Luke, Han, Chewie, Leia, Billy Dee Williams, C3P0, R2D2, Porkins, Admiral Ackbar, Jar Jar Binks, Kirk, Spock and half the the Rebel Alliance forces all crammed into one room, running from colored patches on the ground and obeying the red text.
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--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
[QUOTE=Zombie Man;3957211]Just leave Cole alone. Maybe he'll go away. Or die of natural causes. (hamidon?)[/QUOTE]
Fixed?
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