Discussion: When Do I Get My Paragon Points and Reward Tokens? (VIP)
By
Ael Rhiana,
Posted on: 2011-10-05 17:30 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
I'm not among those who got their tokens "early".
My account backs up Aggelakis'.
As of Sept. 13th, I had 14 (not a typo) months Vet time.
1 for 1 Year,
4 for 4 Vet Badges,
1 for a Box Code,
1 early for Sept.
That is 7. And yet I started Head Start with 8 tokens. On Oct. 23rd, I received my 9th.
I won't exclude the possibility that I have more than I should... But until that gets spelled out every account should start with one Token.
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In that case, Game Support is wrong about something and some of us are indeed short tokens or, as in my case, time accrued towards our next token.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
This is definitely the case. According to your list, I had the following at launch:
1 token for owning a box set 1 token for September 5 tokens for yearly sub 20 tokens for 20 badges = 27 tokens However, I had one more token than that. I actually had 28 tokens at Head Start. Having not bought points yet, it can't be that. Therefore, the only way for me to have had 28 tokens at Head Start is that *EVERY* account is granted a reward token. My second account, subbed for a few months a couple years ago, has three tokens: 1 for box set, 1 for 1 vet badge. My third account, started in August with the $1.99 sale, has three tokens: 1 for box set, 1 for September. Both of them mysteriously have an extra token, so the only way that would be possible is if every account is granted a reward token. I was granted token #29 sometime in the last three days (I haven't logged in in a few days; assuming yesterday the 23rd) on my main account, several days in advance of both the GM-stated grant day (28th) and my veteran award date (27th). |
If point (F) in my list above is indeed - as so many of us assumed - supposed to be "One token for every account" then I should have received my 39th token on my Vet Reward cycle date of Oct 1st and didn't get it until Oct 23rd. So in that case, not only did I fail to get my Sept token early, I've lost 22 days of Vet Time credit somehow.
Going back to what I was looking at when I opened my support ticket. If I do my accounting off the 87 months of Vet Time on Sept 1st, then I should have received 38 tokens at the beginning of Head Start on Sept 13th and been due the 39th Oct 1st. Which is what I did receive and what I was expecting to happen. When the points were delayed I assumed that was also the hold up with the token and didn't open a support ticket until the 17th. The possibilities that I felt could explain my 38 instead of expected 39 tokens as of that date were, in rough order of plausibility to me: (a) The token for my billing cycle starting in Sept hadn't yet been awarded, (b) they screwed up Vet Time credit somehow, (c) no token for the account, or (d) no token for the two boxed sets associated with the account.
Game Support crossed (a) and (b) off my list. You're crossing off (c). And (d) seems pretty doubtful given how straight-forward it should be to implement. So I'm back to believing (b). Time to contact Game Support again...
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
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Going by my original calculation, since my renewal was on the day Head Start went live and thus not active as it went up, I would definitely recieve mine around the targeted date, the 28th.|
Originally Posted by QuarriosSoul
I'm not among those who got their tokens "early".
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Provided nothing else extraordinary happens.
Zwill,
Seeing how everyone is confused (including you all!), I think that you need to have Sexy Jay write up a detailed description on everything that goes into the workings of the reward systems and the dates that they are awarded and what we can expect from this system in the future.
Sound good?
@Zethustra
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Update: Got my token, thanks for your time!
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I got my reward token, but not my points. Who do I take this up with?
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You don't get them at the same time. Which is why a dozen posts in this thread have said they need to simplify how the VIP perks are given to the players.|
Originally Posted by DarwinPrime
I got my reward token, but not my points. Who do I take this up with?
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To say it again:
You get the Transfer Token the first time you log in after the first of the month.
You get the Paragon Points on your billing date if that day is after the 12th of the month. If it is before the 12th, it will get closer each month until it actually is the billing day.
You are supposed to get a Paragon Token after a month of play, however when that month starts seems to be a closely guarded secret that the billing department feels the player (or anyone else in the company) doesn't need to know.
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Well my Reward Token showed up today finally. Nice and shiny and spent now. 
And I got mine at log in today as well. One more to T5...
I think I've figured out what is going on. First here's a link to the support article on their accounting method (courtesy of Game Support): How are Paragon Reward Tokens Calculated?
Here's what I'm currently thinking happened with my account:
- Sept was considered my 88th month before I21 launch despite the token for it not being due till October because I paid for the period before launch. This is a bit ironic, given that I think we should get credit when we pay and NCsoft/PS only rewards the tokens when the period has passed.
- Because you only get a token for every 3 full months of time prior to I21 launch, 88 months gets me the same 29 tokens as 87 months.
- Game Support stated we got our Sept tokens early. In this case, that was no favor, as it effectively converted Sept from giving credit for a full token to 1/3rd of a token.
- Therefore, I wasn't due another token till the end of my Oct period. I got that token 9 days early, relative to my previous Veteran Reward date, so perhaps that's from my 1/3rd token. Though, given that it's 9 days and not 10, I suspect it's merely a coincidence and that fractional tokens at launch counted for nothing.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
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Anyone telling you that they gave the September Tokens early is shoveling out a barn... They didn't hand out any "early" reward tokens.
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Originally Posted by Kosmos
Game Support stated we got our Sept tokens early. In this case, that was no favor, as it effectively converted Sept from giving credit for a full token to 1/3rd of a token.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
And now, confusion time!
1) I had not received any tokens since I-21 launched.
2) My billing date is the 8th.
3) My anniversary date is the 2nd
4) I recieved a token on Oct 25.
Does not compute.
There seems to be 4 separate dates functioning here.
Note: My billing date is the 22nd of the month according to my account page.
1. Server transfers - got mine at the beginning of the month as expected
2. Paragon Points - got mine early on the 12th when they seemed to dump them on most people
3. Paragon Rewards - got two reward tokens (one for the month, one for the year) a couple of days ago. Close enough to the billing date, ish.
4. Veteran Reward Badges - Even though I got the additional reward token for being subbed 6 years I still haven't got my 6 Year Vet badge.
Good job at making things overly complicated chaps. 
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The way they did this was remarkably opaque and inprecise, and justifiably engenders distrust. However, if you read up thread a bit a number of people reported receiving an "extra" token at the beginning of Head Start.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Anyone telling you that they gave the September Tokens early is shoveling out a barn... They didn't hand out any "early" reward tokens.
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I'll run through what I think happened again. I'd be curious to hear if others find that it explains their situation, or if theirs contradicts it.
First, here is their article on what tokens are rewarded for. Note that third line which reads "1 Reward Token for every 3 months the game account was active with billing prior to the Freedom launch". That might be read to suggest that at the beginning of Head Start they awarded tokens based on the date you were billed, not at the end of the period as they consider "normal", and explains how someone in support might honestly say we got our Sept reward early. Unfortunately, for approximately 2/3rds of the player base this sort of "early" award would be a disadvantage, not an advantage, as months counted for 1/3rd of a token before I21 and 1 token after. (Note that this "early" award would give no one an extra token, just award one a few days early to roughly 1/3rd of the players and take away a token from the remainder.)
I believe I was counted as having 88 instead of 87 months of time at Head Start due to this sort of "early" credit for Sept (my 88th month normally would have completed Oct 1st, after launch). And I think since I'd already been given credit for Sept that's why I thought I was missing a month after Head Start. My next month of credit coming would then be Oct, not Sept, which had already been counted. It just so happens that the extra month before head start would then gain me, and anyone else for whom Sept wasn't an integer multiple of 3 months of Vet time, nothing at all. While having that month credited at its end, after launch, would yielded another token.
Let me reiterate that I'm just making an educated guess here based upon the evidence available to me.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
As part of my most recent reply from Support about the whole token issue, I got some info about the year-veteran badges/tokens: they said that they aren't rewarding properly at the moment so they're trying to fix it. They also said that time from before the launch counted for the yearly tokens now, so you won't have to go through the entire year again to get them... from my reckoning.
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They either don't know how to calculate their rewards before Freedom launch, or they were awarded their token early due to some glitch in the system.|
Originally Posted by Kosmos
The way they did this was remarkably opaque and inprecise, and justifiably engenders distrust. However, if you read up thread a bit a number of people reported receiving an "extra" token at the beginning of Head Start.
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By my calculations I've been given the following Reward Tokens:
26 Token = Veteran Reward Conversion as of August 2011 (78 month Veteran Status as of August 12, 2011)
06 Token = 6 Years subscription
01 Token = Free token for everyone, including F2P players
01 Token = Retail Code Applied to the account.
01 Token = Reward for 1 month after Freedom Launch (September 28 -October).
35 Tokens. Which is exactly what I have.
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Originally Posted by Kosmos
I'll run through what I think happened again. I'd be curious to hear if others find that it explains their situation, or if theirs contradicts it.
First, here is their article on what tokens are rewarded for. Note that third line which reads "1 Reward Token for every 3 months the game account was active with billing prior to the Freedom launch". That might be read to suggest that at the beginning of Head Start they awarded tokens based on the date you were billed, not at the end of the period as they consider "normal", and explains how someone in support might honestly say we got our Sept reward early. |
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Originally Posted by Kosmos
Unfortunately, for approximately 2/3rds of the player base this sort of "early" award would be a disadvantage, not an advantage, as months counted for 1/3rd of a token before I21 and 1 token after. (Note that this "early" award would give no one an extra token, just award one a few days early to roughly 1/3rd of the players and take away a token from the remainder.)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kosmos
I believe I was counted as having 88 instead of 87 months of time at Head Start due to this sort of "early" credit for Sept (my 88th month normally would have completed Oct 1st, after launch). And I think since I'd already been given credit for Sept that's why I thought I was missing a month after Head Start. My next month of credit coming would then be Oct, not Sept, which had already been counted. It just so happens that the extra month before head start would then gain me, and anyone else for whom Sept wasn't an integer multiple of 3 months of Vet time, nothing at all. While having that month credited at its end, after launch, would yielded another token.
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29 Token = Veteran Reward Conversion as of September 1st, 2011 (87 month Veteran Status as of September 1st, 2011)
07 Token = 7 Years subscription
01 Token = Free token for everyone, including F2P players
01 Token = Retail Code Applied to the account.
01 Token = Reward for 1 month after Freedom Launch (September 28 -October).
38 Tokens + any tokens from purchases (1 for first purchase, 1 for every 1,200 Paragon Points bought).
I'm not guessing. I'm not reading anything into the numbers like you are.
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Originally Posted by Kosmos
Let me reiterate that I'm just making an educated guess here based upon the evidence available to me.
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I should have highlighted part I was referring to:|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
No, that means 1 token per Vet Reward badge.
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"1 Reward Token for every 3 months the game account was active with billing prior to the Freedom launch"
Here's an example of what I mean. 1 token for every Vet Reward badge right? One of my friends was due his 78 month badge on Sept 29th. He only had 25 Vet Reward badges at Head Start launch, so he should have had 25+6+1+1=33 tokens at launch right? But he says he received 34. Which is why I'm having to parse words to explain it. My conjecture is that they counted the full month from Aug 29 to Sept 29, because it was billed prior to launch, and he got his 78 month token 16 days early on the 13th.
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I'm not guessing. I'm not reading anything into the numbers like you are. I'm not making an educated guess. I'm using the numbers I have available, with the information we were told. The math is simple and doesn't need to have any guesses applied to it. |
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| They either don't know how to calculate their rewards before Freedom launch, or they were awarded their token early due to some glitch in the system. |
Game Support has stated explicitly to me (and at least one other person I know) that Sept tokens were awarded early. That makes it not a glitch in the system but a "feature". My guess is about the first half of yours: why players' calculations aren't correct from NCSoft/PS's point-of-view. And that is simply that some of us expected Vet periods ending within a month after launch to be awarded as post-launch and earn tokens per the end-of-the-period policy, while the devs considered those periods to be pre-launch due to a billed-before-launch policy and awarded tokens early to those who had an extra 3-month block as a result.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
Quote:
If he had 25 vet reward badges at head start, then:|
Originally Posted by Kosmos
I should have highlighted part I was referring to:
"1 Reward Token for every 3 months the game account was active with billing prior to the Freedom launch" Here's an example of what I mean. 1 token for every Vet Reward badge right? One of my friends was due his 78 month badge on Sept 29th. He only had 25 Vet Reward badges at Head Start launch, so he should have had 25+6+1+1=33 tokens at launch right? But he says he received 34. Which is why I'm having to parse words to explain it. My conjecture is that they counted the full month from Aug 29 to Sept 29, because it was billed prior to launch, and he got his 78 month token 16 days early on the 13th. |
25 vet badges
06 vet years
01 retail code
01 account
01 september
= 34 tokens.
He should have 1 for October either already or sometime in the next couple days.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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That's my point, he did indeed appear to get his Sept token early - which he was due because it was an integer multiple of 3 months. Snow Globe is saying he either can't count or his getting 34 was due to a "glitch". And yes, he got his 35th on the 23rd or 24th (he didn't log in on the 23rd).
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
If he had 25 vet reward badges at head start, then:
25 vet badges 06 vet years 01 retail code 01 account 01 september = 34 tokens. He should have 1 for October either already or sometime in the next couple days. |
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
My new secondary account went Premium and has 2 tokens when it should have 3 (account + 1 month VIP + GR code applied before Freedom went live). I'm hoping the AWOL token will show up on the 28th, the date when I was promised the Tokens for my other account, which actually showed up a few days ago. If they don't, I'm not even sure I can summon the enthusiasm to try to get CS to sort it out.
I'm cringing with second-hand embarassment for whoever was responsible for coding this mess.
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I was told explicity by CS (and I double checked for clarification) that September tokens would be awarded in October, and October tokens in November. CS seems to as confused about this as anyone.
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Originally Posted by Kosmos
Game Support has stated explicitly to me (and at least one other person I know) that Sept tokens were awarded early.
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Just to add to the confusion (hey, I'm here to help )...
Like most folks, I got my overdue Reward Token (and the Unshakeable badge) on the 25th. All cool with me - now I can use the /auctionhouse command. Nice.
Logged in this morning, and I've got another token - and the next badge (Diligent).
Not that I've any problems with that, but still, all a bit confusing.
And no, I've not purchased and Paragon Points either.
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Yup, I got this from Support.
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Originally Posted by Kosmos
Game Support has stated explicitly to me (and at least one other person I know) that Sept tokens were awarded early.
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| dave | onion | @davejb |
I got my token yesterday which is around the time of month (maybe a couple days early) when I would have gotten my vet reward in the past. I was also one of those that got an extra token when 21 went live so I definitely feel like I've gotten everything now.
I expect I'll get my paragon points around the 10th (sliding earlier toward my billing date as time goes on) and my reward tokens around the 26th every month from now on. I'm happy but feel sorry for those that didn't get an extra in September. That seems totally wrong to me.
1 token for owning a box set
1 token for September
5 tokens for yearly sub
20 tokens for 20 badges
= 27 tokens
However, I had one more token than that. I actually had 28 tokens at Head Start. Having not bought points yet, it can't be that. Therefore, the only way for me to have had 28 tokens at Head Start is that *EVERY* account is granted a reward token.
My second account, subbed for a few months a couple years ago, has three tokens: 1 for box set, 1 for 1 vet badge. My third account, started in August with the $1.99 sale, has three tokens: 1 for box set, 1 for September. Both of them mysteriously have an extra token, so the only way that would be possible is if every account is granted a reward token.
I was granted token #29 sometime in the last three days (I haven't logged in in a few days; assuming yesterday the 23rd) on my main account, several days in advance of both the GM-stated grant day (28th) and my veteran award date (27th).
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