Comparison of Unarmed Melee sets


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
dunno about that, yes PSW got nerfed, but the rest of the attacks were compensated.

TF and ET got nerfed, and their only compensation was a proctology exam with gloveless and really cold hands or a slight buff to Barrage.
That's what I said. Psionic Assault was buffed while Energy Melee was shat upon.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphoid View Post
Mine were close to that. KM is a beast. What isn't taken into account (because it is a hard variable to account for) is a series of lucky numbers with Power Siphon. I did one run where it was up and active for most of the run because of CS crits. I didn't even do the math on mine, I just posted my run time, and others did it for me. Shoot, even after my initial run I changed my build a bit and got even more DPS.
I have a kin/EnA brute which is awesome now with the changes to Energy Aura. I absolutely hate Power Siphon. Soloing it is OK, but in steam roll teams... it just cant keep up. Maybe it would be different on a scrapper, but I find it lacking on a brute.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socorro View Post
Probably 'cause of the ability to double-stack Rage and the moon-sized Radius of Footstomp.

That's why I have a Superstrength Brute

Not to mention the fact that, while Rage is stacked, you don't suffer the -Defense penalty.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Ember View Post
I have a kin/EnA brute which is awesome now with the changes to Energy Aura. I absolutely hate Power Siphon. Soloing it is OK, but in steam roll teams... it just cant keep up. Maybe it would be different on a scrapper, but I find it lacking on a brute.
I have been told several times that there reason I like it so much is because I am playing it on a scrapper. For concept reasons, I almost wish he was a brute any way.


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Posted

I love EM on my solo EM/EA stalker, he is stuck a bit unloved at level 34 due to altitis issues of mine! But I can almost one shot minions wth three different attacks (one hiddden As, and transfer and ficus with build up up out of hidden). He works better solo though. I can imagine he doesn't do so well in large groups, but as a solo stalker Em is fine in my very humble opinion.

I like the concept of street justice and i find the combo's easier to use than the combo's of Dual Blades. I do have some issues with Kinetic Melee and electric melee for some reasons. Just cannot put my finger on the problem why that is. They just play a bit weak to me. Love Superstrength and dark. And martial arts improved with the latest change. I also like fire melee on my Fire tanker. Some powersets just work better with a certain Archetype i guess.


 

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Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer View Post
That's what I said. Psionic Assault was buffed while Energy Melee was shat upon.
your odd gesture of pushing down the stairs was sort of hard to understand


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
The Energy Transfer change was necessary
It absolutely in no way was necessary, the game survived and thrived fine with ET as is for around -FOUR- years.

The only place it was problematic was stalkers in PVP, and that wasn't because of ET, that was because of how the Stalker AT operated.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
dunno about that, yes PSW got nerfed, but the rest of the attacks were compensated.

TF and ET got nerfed, and their only compensation was a proctology exam with gloveless and really cold hands or a slight buff to Barrage.
Eh, just make PSW wide again... Psionic attacks shouldn't have any range, it's mental it can reach the farthest opponent!!! There are no limits! >:-)


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Originally Posted by Clockwork O1 View Post
Just to clarify, nothing has changed on Street Justice since it was removed from beta in late August.
Really? I'd swear the sounds were made louder (which is a good thing).


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Actually, Energy Punch was also 14% faster in arcanatime terms. People tend to focus on the ET change so much I think almost everyone's forgotten that energy punch was also better originally.

It *wasn't* specifically changed to adjust Energy Melee. It was changed automatically when *all* attacks that used the high speed punch animation were slowed down slightly from 20 frame to 25 frames of animation. And yes, that did cause about a 14% reduction in speed: that's not a typo.
That change also hit my DM Scrapper that skips Midnight Grasp due to concept pretty hard, since it affected Shadow Punch as well. The difference was very noticeable.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
They changed several things. Total Focus used to be a guaranteed stun versus bosses (MAG 4). It was reduced. Given the glacial animation of that attack, it's now much less useful. The Energy Transfer change was necessary, but with the other powers in the set, it just makes it run too slow.
The loss of the MAG 4 Stun didn't bother me. But I will have to say, the change to ET was never necessary and wasn't needed.

I played WP/EM, INV/EM, EM/SR (Stalker before the changes), EM/Nin (again before the changes)...in no way was the ET overpowered in PvE.

People say such things as "AOE is king now" well let me tell you, AOE has always been king And nothing showed you that more than hitting corpse after corpse on an AOE heavy team.

Everything about the change to EM screamed "PVP REASONS"

I don't even want the whole set sped up. Barrage? I love it's animation! Total Focus? Love it's animation! ET? Hate the new animation and I already had one slow animating single target attack that was awesome!

Whirling Hands? Love the animation, didn't care if it was the weakest PBAOE for melee.

Yes, I love that standard PBAOE animation.

However, I do know of another way to fix all this.

A new aura!

Give me the aura "Energy Melee Pink Pom Poms of Death + Glowing Eyes Combat Aura" and I'm all set to just go with StJ.


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Posted

Street justice is going to be good. On brutes it should be the top DPS set, and a Stj/Fire should deal more single target damage than a SS/Fire. It's AoEs are powerful, but tiny. I'm sure some farmers will actually like it if they can get the two AoEs to hit their max targets every time, because they actually deal better damage than equivalent powers.

Oh, and KM can be good as well. It is so-so on tankers, decent on brutes, and fairly good on stalkers/scrappers. I actually think a KM/Fire scrapper can deal VERY high DPS, combining power siphon with FE.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkRavingMad2 View Post
Dark Melee.........'s cone attack is so awesome it inspired a vet reward power.

Had to chuckle at that one.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
They changed several things. Total Focus used to be a guaranteed stun versus bosses (MAG 4). It was reduced. Given the glacial animation of that attack, it's now much less useful. The Energy Transfer change was necessary, but with the other powers in the set, it just makes it run too slow.
I seem to remember them promising us to come back and revisit EM later. I guess that is another broken promise. I parked my EM tank and have never looked back.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgehog_NA View Post
I seem to remember them promising us to come back and revisit EM later. I guess that is another broken promise. I parked my EM tank and have never looked back.
I would say you can expect they Will give it another look when they finally import EM to scrappers.


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Posted

I don't know what you guys are all talking about. I've got Energy Melee on a rather enjoyable Brute, and the only complaint I have is that I wish it looked more like a boxing powerset instead of all the crazy jumping and pushing attacks.

Energy Transfer, before the change, was simply monstrous. I could clear an entire map of Freakshow with just that power. It was like a damn sucker punch that could rip heads off! Here's the kicker: That wasn't a good thing. Everybody's acting like because it was balanced with similar hard-hitting powers in other sets, it's been completely gutted. It's still hard-hitting. It and Total Focus are still monstrously devastating when paired together. You hit just about ANYTHING with both of those powers, and they are very likely to be sore in the morning.

Each powerset has its strengths and its drawbacks. Not a one of them is meant to be "THE MOST AWESOMESAUCE POWER! ROFLOLZ!"

If you've found that you disliked the powerset, then perhaps that style really isn't for you! It's that simple!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey View Post
I don't know what you guys are all talking about. I've got Energy Melee on a rather enjoyable Brute, and the only complaint I have is that I wish it looked more like a boxing powerset instead of all the crazy jumping and pushing attacks.

Energy Transfer, before the change, was simply monstrous. I could clear an entire map of Freakshow with just that power. It was like a damn sucker punch that could rip heads off! Here's the kicker: That wasn't a good thing. Everybody's acting like because it was balanced with similar hard-hitting powers in other sets, it's been completely gutted. It's still hard-hitting. It and Total Focus are still monstrously devastating when paired together. You hit just about ANYTHING with both of those powers, and they are very likely to be sore in the morning.

Each powerset has its strengths and its drawbacks. Not a one of them is meant to be "THE MOST AWESOMESAUCE POWER! ROFLOLZ!"

If you've found that you disliked the powerset, then perhaps that style really isn't for you! It's that simple!
Been trying to stay away from this discussion, but I can't let this go.

Clear an entire map of Freaks with just Energy transfer? No, well you probably could but that would make it even more tedius than it already would have been. The heavy hitters available every 20s minus whatever recharge enhancements you have. For reference, every time you could use Energy Transfer or Total Focus to hit that one guy, someone else could use Footstomp to hit ten. With stone, you get to keep a 1.5s animation And the Mag4 Hold with the same damage as Total Focus.

The thing that was unique about EM was Energy transfer, and it managed to give the set something the others didn't have, and it -DIDN'T- make the set overpowered. I love hearing people say it was because that just reinforced my perspective of the set, where two very nice powers that are so strangely and uniquely powerful can make a set feel so "ZOMG! teh ubr". But big hitters Spread out, at least, 6ish seconds and 8ish seconds (ET and TF) does not an overpowered set make.

Doesn't mean it cant be enjoyable now, or that you arn't allowed to enjoy yours, but it really does need love.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey View Post
I don't know what you guys are all talking about. I've got Energy Melee on a rather enjoyable Brute, and the only complaint I have is that I wish it looked more like a boxing powerset instead of all the crazy jumping and pushing attacks.

Energy Transfer, before the change, was simply monstrous. I could clear an entire map of Freakshow with just that power. It was like a damn sucker punch that could rip heads off! Here's the kicker: That wasn't a good thing. Everybody's acting like because it was balanced with similar hard-hitting powers in other sets, it's been completely gutted. It's still hard-hitting. It and Total Focus are still monstrously devastating when paired together. You hit just about ANYTHING with both of those powers, and they are very likely to be sore in the morning.

Each powerset has its strengths and its drawbacks. Not a one of them is meant to be "THE MOST AWESOMESAUCE POWER! ROFLOLZ!"

If you've found that you disliked the powerset, then perhaps that style really isn't for you! It's that simple!
The set plays different with the changes. I was hitting corpses a plenty before the changes, the change made it happen even more, and on a Tanker, ET and TF where the go to powers for feeling like delivering damage (imo anyways).

On the Stalker...I now had THREE long animating attacks...AS, TF, and ET. :/


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Posted

i wasnt around for old ET, but i will say one thing, from my own perspective. the power as it is now, specifically the sight/sound of it, helps my stalker feel "super", and thats what i really like about it. as long as new animation isnt touched, i'll be personally happy with whatever they do to help the set, if it happens.


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Posted

ET change was PvP driven, then Castle destroyed PvP and made the change even more irrelevent. It hit hard, and took away 10% of your life and defined the set, as indeed many individual powers define many sets, Castle, the number nerd then made up formulas after the event and started to factor in animation times, (something that was never done originally) and retro fitted it to ET, the upshot is a set that WAS at the top is now firmly sat at the bottom of the heap. Oh Im sure it looks average on a spreadsheet but there is no flow to the set, 6 seconds of animation for 2 attacks just destroys it. The only place ET was overpowered was in PvP and we all know how much Castle seemed to hate that, how can anyone be so stupid as to think people would like to have their characters play in a completely different manner would be a good thing, and ignoring primary attacks and going for pool power attacks was the way to go....


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Posted

For Stalker, the two worst unarmed are Energy Melee and Martial Arts because both sets have ZERO aoe. Between EM and MA, I say MA is better.

Dark Melee can compete with them for ST damage especially having good utilities and DM at least has Shadow Maul.

PS: Oh, Kinetic Melee is VERY GOOD on Stalker and Scrapper.


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalk_obot_EU View Post
ET change was PvP driven
If it was *only* a PvP issue it likely wouldn't have been changed. It was not just a PvP issue that energy melee had a power with twice the DPA of its closest competitor.


Quote:
Castle, the number nerd then made up formulas after the event and started to factor in animation times, (something that was never done originally)
But definitely should have been, and at least now new sets tend to acknowledge. My primary disagreement with the activation-time based changes was that I do not believe they should have literally flattened DPA to nearly a constant and they shouldn't have so radically departed PvP performance from PvE performance. But the notion that hey, its ok if the best single target attack has six times the DPA of the worst one is fine because the game is all about AoE anyway is one of the few things that makes me want to literally strangle someone.


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Originally Posted by Stalk_obot_EU View Post
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Posted

ET was overpowered, deal with it.

They really should go make a numbers pass at the old sets. Need to change Rage, lower Foot Stomp's damage, take a hard look at Lightning Rod (probably doesn't need to deal quite that much damage), buff Electric Blast, and a host of smaller things to affect general set balance, so that player A isn't mocked by his peers for taking set A or B.

Won't happen, though; no money in it.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakeeb View Post
ET was overpowered, deal with it.
Interrestingly enough, as a WP/EM Tanker, outside of PvP, I never felt overpowered at all in PvE. In fact, I had other character that felt like the did was more damage.


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