Comparison of Unarmed Melee sets
By
Aether_Crash,
Posted on: 2011-10-05 10:16 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I did a few runs, but it was with /SD and I am an SD novice. I don't think the numbers were as good as they would be for someone who plays the set regularly. I also can't find the numbers I did get. | That said. I'll be curious to see the Pylon numbers for Street. There was some talk during the beta that the Pylon numbers for Street done there were seeming poor, but it was chalked up to not yet having cracked the code of a proper attack chain. Street was pulled before anyone figured one out, hence why I'll be watching closely for Pylon numbers to be posted. |
I am excited to see how they turn up too. From my playing I find KM to be a little bit stronger, but I think that may be because of the energy component in KM. As opposed to StJ's S/L damage that is so heavily resisted.
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poor EM...they changed one power and the whole set suffered.
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Any resist based tanker is going to do really well with KM's -DMG. Shouldn't really be looking at the DPS potentials, should be looking at how each set assists in tanking. KM is by far one of the better tanking sets. KM for resist sets, DM for defense sets.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Kinetic Melee has -DMG, which synergises with Ice Armor's -DMG in Chilling Embrace. Tanker KM gets bigger debuff numbers. It also helps with survivability on /Regen Brutes.
Outside of those specific synergies I would tend to agree with you. |
There's a lot of good thoughts here... it's gonna be harder than I thought to roll-up my new tank. I initially was leaning towards Martial Arts, as I was thinking of a kick-based character. Kinetic Melee was a second possibility for the enemy debuffs, and while an attractive set from an art/animation standpoint, doesn't quite mesh thematically with what's in my head atm. I probably won't do StJ, again mainly from a thematic standpoint, nor SS mainly because it's such a common power set (for good reason too).
The elemental powersets (which I didn't include originally in my OP) are something I may go visit in a future character. An old concept I had was a Elemental Melee/Shield character, but that's for another post 
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fix't|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Kinetic melee is junk, Foot Stomp from Super Strength is overpowered
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also, if someone could confirm this for me, doesn't Stone Melee just barely outperforms Super Strength?
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They changed several things. Total Focus used to be a guaranteed stun versus bosses (MAG 4). It was reduced. Given the glacial animation of that attack, it's now much less useful. The Energy Transfer change was necessary, but with the other powers in the set, it just makes it run too slow.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
poor EM...they changed one power and the whole set suffered.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I just noticed something while comparing the different power sets. Most of them have just a flat Accuracy rating of 1.0x to their attacks (some have an individual power here and there with a bonus) but only Martial Arts has a consistent 1.05x for all of its attack's accuracy. How much of a difference does that make in the grand scheme of things. Lower-levels I can see it being very handy, but what about higher levels?
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I have fun with my Fire/KM Tanker, just hitting the 40s now.
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Originally Posted by Zaion
Any resist based tanker is going to do really well with KM's -DMG. Shouldn't really be looking at the DPS potentials, should be looking at how each set assists in tanking. KM is by far one of the better tanking sets. KM for resist sets, DM for defense sets.
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My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
Kinetic melee may be a lousy set for tanks and brutes. But for scrappers (with criticals and a higher base damage coefficient) it can do really impressive single target damage. Definitely not an AOE set though.
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I dunno. With a decent amount of recharge, my KM scrapper can just about chain Burst, mixed with Concentrated Strike, with a good amount of Power Siphon due to crits on CS. She can definitely put a crowd onto the floor without a problem.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
Kinetic melee may be a lousy set for tanks and brutes. But for scrappers (with criticals and a higher base damage coefficient) it can do really impressive single target damage. Definitely not an AOE set though.
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Mine is the same way. Between Burst, Lightening Field, and Ion my KM/EleA is not so bad off on AoE attacks.
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Originally Posted by Feycat
I dunno. With a decent amount of recharge, my KM scrapper can just about chain Burst, mixed with Concentrated Strike, with a good amount of Power Siphon due to crits on CS. She can definitely put a crowd onto the floor without a problem.
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Yaknow, that actually didn't occur to me the whole time I was leveling up my Ice/KM Tank, though it makes a lot of sence in retrospect. I just knew I loved the set because I could get the AoE while still Hovering |
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Kinetic Melee has -DMG, which synergises with Ice Armor's -DMG in Chilling Embrace. Tanker KM gets bigger debuff numbers. It also helps with survivability on /Regen Brutes.
Outside of those specific synergies I would tend to agree with you. |
Having played the same character to 50 with Ice/SS and Ice/KM, I have to say I like the KM one better. Even taking out the having to land to do Foot Stomp aside, I just have more fun with the set.
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
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Just for a lark I decided to check that thread out after seeing this one, and then took out my KM/SR scrapper Kronaros to see how he would fare. Now he's fully IOed and has very rares in all his incarnate slots, but given all the KM hate I was seeing I doubted he would get much over 200 DPS.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Those of you who think KM stinks should take some time and read through the pylon results threads on the scrapper boards.
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My final DPS was 365.97. Holy crap.
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EM sucked before they changed ET. ET was the ONLY saving grace for EM.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
poor EM...they changed one power and the whole set suffered.
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Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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I don't think that number is accurate. I'd recheck your math. If that number is correct then I assume you had pets and outside help?
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Originally Posted by Mr_Squid
Just for a lark I decided to check that thread out after seeing this one, and then took out my KM/SR scrapper Kronaros to see how he would fare. Now he's fully IOed and has very rares in all his incarnate slots, but given all the KM hate I was seeing I doubted he would get much over 200 DPS.
My final DPS was 365.97. Holy crap. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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which is why the whole set suffered |
Originally Posted by Santorican
EM sucked before they changed ET. ET was the ONLY saving grace for EM.
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Ah, but they did give it some love. They changed several aspects, rebalanced the cast times, added some knockdown effects, and even came up with a new mechanic for EM to roll with.|
Originally Posted by Zortel
Energy Melee is the worst set for me, and I yearn for the day when it gets some love, including changing Stun in the same vein as Cobra Strike and Clobber got before it.
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...Then they realized how much work they did, shrugged, and put in some new animations, then called it Kinetic Melee.
^_~
(Honestly, Energy Melee does need a serious overhaul. I'm just not really seeing a way to fix it without breaking ye olde Cottage Rule.)
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
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Mine were close to that. KM is a beast. What isn't taken into account (because it is a hard variable to account for) is a series of lucky numbers with Power Siphon. I did one run where it was up and active for most of the run because of CS crits. I didn't even do the math on mine, I just posted my run time, and others did it for me. Shoot, even after my initial run I changed my build a bit and got even more DPS.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
I don't think that number is accurate. I'd recheck your math. If that number is correct then I assume you had pets and outside help?
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It's like the Psychic Shockwave change for Dominators. Except instead of extending a helping hand to the rest of the set they pushed it down the stairs.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
which is why the whole set suffered
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Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
Funny how Street Justice is rated so high. On the website it talks about how the set was never slated to be finished, but people had been asking for a "Street fighting" set... "for some time." Uhm, no... I seem to remember a bunch of us being really really vocal about it from pretty much day 1. It's about time we got it, and I'm glad to hear it's so good. Too bad it's weak on AoE. Still, I can finally make that speedster I always wanted since the theme finally fits.
Energy Melee does blow chunks. I have it on a tanker, and I wasn't sure if I even wanted to unlock that slot.
Martial Arts was on my first scrapper and remains my favorite. Love the animations. Awesome crowd control with the KD/KB and stuns.
Dark Melee rocks for sheer damage. It's cone attack is so awesome it inspired a vet reward power.
After that I've had the most fun with dual blades. Love the combos and nicely balanced.
Only had super strength on a tanker. Hate the animations. I wish I could swap the animations for the first two attacks from EM for those lame overhand clubs in SS. Then I might care. Don't know how effective it is on a scrap or brute because it looks so boring.
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dunno about that, yes PSW got nerfed, but the rest of the attacks were compensated.|
Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
It's like the Psychic Shockwave change for Dominators. Except instead of extending a helping hand to the rest of the set they pushed it down the stairs.
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TF and ET got nerfed, and their only compensation was a proctology exam with gloveless and really cold hands or a slight buff to Barrage.
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Katana and Broadsword have the same 5% accuracy bonus. However, at low levels (really: at all levels) that accuracy bonus has relatively small benefit. What has larger benefit are things like the pervasive defense debuffs in Katana and Broadsword, which are intrinsically stronger.|
Originally Posted by LordAethar
I just noticed something while comparing the different power sets. Most of them have just a flat Accuracy rating of 1.0x to their attacks (some have an individual power here and there with a bonus) but only Martial Arts has a consistent 1.05x for all of its attack's accuracy. How much of a difference does that make in the grand scheme of things. Lower-levels I can see it being very handy, but what about higher levels?
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That benefit usually gets diluted to the point of being impossible to notice at higher levels when players normally have lots of slotted accuracy.
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I miss the days of when Energy Melee was king 
Oh how the mighty have fallen
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Actually, Energy Punch was also 14% faster in arcanatime terms. People tend to focus on the ET change so much I think almost everyone's forgotten that energy punch was also better originally.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
EM sucked before they changed ET. ET was the ONLY saving grace for EM.
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It *wasn't* specifically changed to adjust Energy Melee. It was changed automatically when *all* attacks that used the high speed punch animation were slowed down slightly from 20 frame to 25 frames of animation. And yes, that did cause about a 14% reduction in speed: that's not a typo.
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Energy Melee is the worst set for me, and I yearn for the day when it gets some love, including changing Stun in the same vein as Cobra Strike and Clobber got before it.
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