Comparison of Unarmed Melee sets
By
Aether_Crash,
Posted on: 2011-10-05 10:16 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Kinetic melee is junk, Super strength is overpowered, Martial arts is very good for tanks, Stj is weak in aoe, very weak.
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From worst to best, imo:
Energy Melee < Kinetic Melee < Fiery Melee < Electric Melee < Martial Arts < Dark Melee < Street Justice < Super Strength
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Man, what's with all the Kinetic Melee hate? The set is blazingly fast (don't you give me that 'it's too sloooooow' garbage, it's been proven wrong before several times and I'll post a damn video if you don't believe me) and hits like a truck on every AT but Tanker.
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Here's how I'd rank them:
9. Kinetic Melee
8. Energy Melee
7. Electric Melee
6. Fiery Melee
5. Super Strength
4. Ice Melee
3. Dark Melee
2. Martial Arts
1. Street Justice
Sets rated on the "Damn, this is sexy" scale. Kinetic Melee would be higher, but I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttee the animation for Concentrated Strike.
I have nothing against Kinetic Melee but it doesn't strike me as being particularly noteworthy for tanks or brutes. Without the instant recharge on the Build Up, it doesn't seem to me like it's got anything to recommend it over the other options available, outside of concept. You'll do fine with it, but it doesn't really pull ahead in any area.
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Ah, I forgot about the elemental melee powers (Ice Melee, Fire Melee, etc).
I'm a little curious as to the "why" on a few instances. I'm seeing a lot of criticizm on Kinetic Melee. Why is that? How is Super Strength overpowered?
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Bingo. Kinetic Melee is good on Stalkers and okie on Scrappers. For Brutes and Tankers, there are far better options.
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Originally Posted by Mokalus
I have nothing against Kinetic Melee but it doesn't strike me as being particularly noteworthy for tanks or brutes. Without the instant recharge on the Build Up, it doesn't seem to me like it's got anything to recommend it over the other options available, outside of concept. You'll do fine with it, but it doesn't really pull ahead in any area.
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@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too
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Probably 'cause of the ability to double-stack Rage and the moon-sized Radius of Footstomp.|
Originally Posted by LordAethar
...How is Super Strength overpowered?
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That's why I have a Superstrength Brute
Just to clarify, nothing has changed on Street Justice since it was removed from beta in late August.
Kinetic melee is far above average, as is street justice. Martial arts is no slouch either since its most recent buffs, however.
Kinetic Melee has the best Assassin's Strike in the game in my opinion. Looks like a Hadouken.
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I LOVE my SS Brute. I always feel like the Hulk. |
Originally Posted by Socorro
Probably 'cause of the ability to double-stack Rage and the moon-sized Radius of Footstomp.
That's why I have a Superstrength Brute |
If the devs allow crits with rage and they don't take down rage's boost for damage then they do not think the set is overpowered when it goes to scrappers. But $100 says if stalkers get ss they will still give them build up.
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My KM scrapper certainly feels superior, and puts out awesome numbers, to my other scrappers. I love my KM scrapper, she's my fav scrapper!
SS is very hard to beat because Rage is OP, KO Blow is one of the highest DPCT attacks in any set, and Foot Stomp is pretty good. (And solid for mitigation)
I think fiery melee is being underrated, however. The extra damage of fire and the lower resists against it make it pretty attractive vs SS also. Incinerate is almost the same DPCT as KO blow, albeit a DoT, and fire sword circle is more DPCT and same recharge as foot stomp, albeit no mitigation and a smaller radius. But otherwise it's a very strong set.
I think StJ may well be the strongest single target set, but I'm not that familiar with the mechanics of Kin Melee.
I am playing the set as a Stalker and it is performing phenomenally well. They did discuss the AoE issue in the Ustreams today and stated to improve it they would need to decrease the effectiveness of damage and recharge. I, personally, prefer it as is.
I'm surprised at Elec Melee being ranked so low. I always found the set to be completely nuts with larger sized mobs and all the 'splash' damage. Played a Stalker and Brute to 50, and both are beasts that can roll though mobs like crazy..
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Originally Posted by Benchpresser
I'm surprised at Elec Melee being ranked so low. I always found the set to be completely nuts with larger sized mobs and all the 'splash' damage. Played a Stalker and Brute to 50, and both are beasts that can roll though mobs like crazy..
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I'd agree; I liked my Elec/Elec Brute!
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Looking at all these responses I think Shubbie is WRONG in thinking that most players think Stj is weak in any way shape or form.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Kinetic melee is junk, Super strength is overpowered, Martial arts is very good for tanks, Stj is weak in aoe, very weak.
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Just saying.
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I don't really consider Ice, Fire, or Stone to be unarmed sets what with all those swords and hammers. 
I'd say Energy Melee<Martial Arts<Street Justice<Super Strength...
I'm not certain where I'd fit Electric or Dark into that hierarchy.
I think I'd put Kinetic Melee about on par with Street Justice, but I need a fuller experience with the set to know for sure.
And if not for Footstomp, I think I'd consider Super Strength about on par with Street Justice.
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As to the first part of your post, I laughed, since all I could think was that you had absolutely disregarded the ol' pink energy pom-poms of doom as weapons when you hadn't done so for summoned fire ice and stone shaped as assorted types of true armament. I laughed because it seemed so very appropriate to me.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I don't really consider Ice, Fire, or Stone to be unarmed sets what with all those swords and hammers.
I'd say Energy Melee<Martial Arts<Street Justice<Super Strength... I'm not certain where I'd fit Electric or Dark into that hierarchy. I think I'd put Kinetic Melee about on par with Street Justice, but I need a fuller experience with the set to know for sure. And if not for Footstomp, I think I'd consider Super Strength about on par with Street Justice. |
As far as Street vs Strength, I really don't know if I can't put StJ on par with SS. I say this because at level 23 my StJ Energy brute is kicking far more butt than my SS Shield brute did. Like, a prodigous amount more. As that SS brute is now an incarnate it will be some time, a month or two, before I'll be likely able to compare them directly.
That said. I'll be curious to see the Pylon numbers for Street. There was some talk during the beta that the Pylon numbers for Street done there were seeming poor, but it was chalked up to not yet having cracked the code of a proper attack chain. Street was pulled before anyone figured one out, hence why I'll be watching closely for Pylon numbers to be posted.
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There are "weapon sets" (redraw weapon after using out-of-set powers) and "unarmed sets" (no redraw). That's what the OP is talking about.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I don't really consider Ice, Fire, or Stone to be unarmed sets what with all those swords and hammers.
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The "redraw" of the swords and hammers in elemental sets is actually baked into the animation -- unlike weapon sets which, quite a while back now, had their animations tweaked to remove the "redraw delay" (remember how you used to pause between one attack and another?) from the total animation time (reducing time between in-set powers) ... and given actual redraw (ended up being close to the same amount of time as before between in-set and out-of-set powers).
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Originally Posted by Dispari
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Kinetic Melee has -DMG, which synergises with Ice Armor's -DMG in Chilling Embrace. Tanker KM gets bigger debuff numbers. It also helps with survivability on /Regen Brutes.|
Originally Posted by Mokalus
I have nothing against Kinetic Melee but it doesn't strike me as being particularly noteworthy for tanks or brutes. Without the instant recharge on the Build Up, it doesn't seem to me like it's got anything to recommend it over the other options available, outside of concept. You'll do fine with it, but it doesn't really pull ahead in any area.
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Outside of those specific synergies I would tend to agree with you.
I really should do something about this signature.
So now that Street Justice has gone live (and apparently tweaked a bit since it last showed up in beta), I'm wondering how the different non-weapon Melee power sets all compare for Tank/Scrapper/Brute. SJ is said to be a power set "between Super Strength and Martial Arts" but how exactly. Also, how does Kinetic Melee fit in there? I'm not an expert an any of these power sets, so I'd like to hear from everybody else about this, before I make my new Tanker.
Edit: I forgot to mention the "Elemental" Melee sets - Ice Melee, Fiery Melee, Energy Melee, Dark Melee, and Electric melee