Street Justice and general points refunds.
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-10-05 09:31 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Ive already dropped that argument.
Its irrelevant to the discussion. Why I dislike the set is not important. |
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Why you dislike the set is your own business: you can dislike it for any subjective reason or for no specific reason at all.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Why I dislike the set is not important.
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However, why you want a refund is a separate issue. Sure, in a restaurant you can say "I don't like it" and probably get a refund or a replacement, and sure you can shop at Zappos, but there are many businesses that will not give a refund for a purchase except under certain very specific circumstances, such as product defect or damage during delivery. Many if not most businesses require you to give a reason for requesting a refund, and that reason must fall within their parameters for offering refunds.
Why should NCSoft specifically be bound to the "refund whenever you want it no questions asked" policy. Its only one example of a wide range of successful business solutions to this issue. The notion that its "good business" to offer refunds at will implies this is a widespread and generally accepted business practice. Its not. Its one of many options, and not the most popular one.
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But they do need to come up with a clear and concise refund policy.
Not leave everyone hanging here clueless and chomping at each other lord of flies style.
Also make it easy to understand and read, not bury it 1000 pages deep in a eula.
Also, also Walmart has a no questions refund policy and I do believe they are the biggest retailer worldwide, best buy however sometimes hassles customers, sometimes not. Not nearly as succesful.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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did you not read what he said dude? he said they nerfed it from when it was on beta IE he played it on BETA and when it came OUT they nerfed it and did NOT say anything about the nerf.....
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Originally Posted by EU_Damz
There is a test/beta server for a reason. While im not sure if the street justice set is back on the test server, it was for quite a bit of time for people to test and play with it.
This should have been the timeframe for people to judge if they like it or not. Since you mentioned SS i presume you have used the set on either a tank or a brute, why not a scrapper? Plus dps on a SJ is indeed higher than a SS and well . . . . looks cool!  |
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Walmarts refund policy is a result of them being huge, not the cause. They do so much volume they can afford to eat the cost of returned non-defective items.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
But they do need to come up with a clear and concise refund policy.
Not leave everyone hanging here clueless and chomping at each other lord of flies style. Also make it easy to understand and read, not bury it 1000 pages deep in a eula. Also, also Walmart has a no questions refund policy and I do believe they are the biggest retailer worldwide, best buy however sometimes hassles customers, sometimes not. Not nearly as succesful. |
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Which is theft, you got what you paid, the Paragon Points. What you use the Paragon Points on is a separate matter.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
I think I will
If I really really was upset, I would charge back the point purchase, I know credit cards will back the customer on this over the game company, I did it before to another company that did tick me off to that point. But it does create a bit of a mess. |
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And that was false. People seriously need to read the thread before responding backing up someone with information that was proven to be absolutely false not only by several other players but also stated so by a red name.|
Originally Posted by CaptainBrawl
did you not read what he said dude? he said they nerfed it from when it was on beta IE he played it on BETA and when it came OUT they nerfed it and did NOT say anything about the nerf.....
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Paragon has a refund policy- Send a message to customer service and ask for a refund stating why you feel you deserve one. It works when reasonable people state reasonable claims. Wal-Mart is not Paragon Studios. Wal-Mart is in fact a general shopping chain full of stuff developed by other companies. Everything Paragon Studios is selling is created by their developers and used in their game. Not the same at all, so they can not share a refund policy.
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You know that there's no way to actually leave the game, now that Freedom is out, right? Your protest has less weight behind it if you can still log in and play as a Premium player. If they're willing to allow players to play for free, somehow I don't think you denying them 3 months of subs is gonna get their attention, especially when you've said you've done it in the past and have proven to them that you'll give them more money in the future.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Ive already decided this requires no further action on my part other than to leave the game for a few months because Im bitter about spending money on a poor set, and that paragon did not provide the proper amount of information, its not like there arent a few coming out this holiday season.
Though I will voice my concerns here for now. |
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Wal-Mart is a multi-billion dollar company that pays Chinese workers pocket change.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Also, also Walmart has a no questions refund policy and I do believe they are the biggest retailer worldwide, best buy however sometimes hassles customers, sometimes not. Not nearly as succesful.
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I'm really disappointed that no one mentioned that he could have waited until a new Mids came out including Street Justice and its (current) numbers. Mids has been pretty much the "de facto" character build tool for a number of years, and it's rare that they don't have the numbers correct. (Yes it does happen, but they're quick to fix them from what I've seen.) No, it's not an official source of information, but it's still a source like Paragonwiki or City of Data.
I'm not saying you should never be able to get a refund on a product that doesn't work, or that you don't like, but if the purchaser hasn't done their "due diligence" before their purchase, that's not the fault of the seller. (I.E. you should make sure you're not buying a house that's down wind of a pig farm during the summer months. 
)
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Ive brought this up|
Originally Posted by Cake
Which is theft, you got what you paid, the Paragon Points. What you use the Paragon Points on is a separate matter.
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Companies can not insulate themselves from poor product by just putting a buffer in there
If you went to a burger place and told you, you had to buy a gift card with points on it, then use the gift card to buy a burger.
you would sure as heck expect your money back if you found a rat;s tail in it.
Even though what you actually bought was the gift card and not the burger itself.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Ive brought this up
Companies can not insulate themselves from poor product by just putting a buffer in there If you went to a burger place and told you, you had to buy a gift card with points on it, then use the gift card to buy a burger. you would sure as heck expect your money back if you found a rat;s tail in it. Even though what you actually bought was the gift card and not the burger itself. |
And customers can't claim they were cheated when the information about the product in question was available before purchase.
You didn't bother to check out the changes to Street Justice when you had the chance, now you have to live with your disappointment.
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Again, I point out that many businesses in many industries have policies of no refunds. The only exception is if a product is defective. "I decided I don't like it" does not qualify.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
But again, not good business.
You never want to loose a customer for stupid reasons, and not offering a refund even if the customer is wrong is one of them. |
Personally, I feel a 'no refunds' policy in the in-game store is just fine. And I feel it is, in fact, 'good business'. Offering refunds in a system like this introduces all kinds of problems.
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It's not a poor product because they're selling what they are advertising. There is nothing missing, and they did not get your order wrong or break the powerset in any way, it was sold as advertised and there were ways to look into it to make damn sure it was what you wanted. Not the same at all.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Ive brought this up
Companies can not insulate themselves from poor product by just putting a buffer in there If you went to a burger place and told you, you had to buy a gift card with points on it, then use the gift card to buy a burger. you would sure as heck expect your money back if you found a rat;s tail in it. Even though what you actually bought was the gift card and not the burger itself. |
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The Android Market had a 24 hour refund policy, no questions asked. Then google screwed up and lowered it to 15 minutes (wth? If I buy a 300 meg game there goes 10 minutes if I'm home).|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
But they do need to come up with a clear and concise refund policy.
Not leave everyone hanging here clueless and chomping at each other lord of flies style. Also make it easy to understand and read, not bury it 1000 pages deep in a eula. Also, also Walmart has a no questions refund policy and I do believe they are the biggest retailer worldwide, best buy however sometimes hassles customers, sometimes not. Not nearly as succesful. |
A system of 6 or 12 hours refund would be nice imo but maybe they should limit it to some items like powersets - because one could make good use in 6-12 hours of the expensive 10 extra enhancement storage or the auction house thing in that time, while 6 hours is a good time to test a powerset or see how your toon would look ingame with new costumes imo.
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but its still costing them 45 for 10..|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
You know that there's no way to actually leave the game, now that Freedom is out, right? Your protest has less weight behind it if you can still log in and play as a Premium player. If they're willing to allow players to play for free, somehow I don't think you denying them 3 months of subs is gonna get their attention, especially when you've said you've done it in the past and have proven to them that you'll give them more money in the future.
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not a good deal...possibly 90 if force power is any good.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Or you can use the test server to try it out all you like before deciding to make the purchase.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
The Android Market had a 24 hour refund policy, no questions asked. Then google screwed up and lowered it to 15 minutes (wth? If I buy a 300 meg game there goes 10 minutes if I'm home).
A system of 6 or 12 hours refund would be nice imo but maybe they should limit it to some items like powersets - because one could make good use in 6-12 hours of the expensive 10 extra enhancement storage or the auction house thing in that time, while 6 hours is a good time to test a powerset or see how your toon would look ingame with new costumes imo. |
This came from another recent thread, but I thought it was rather pertinent to this discussion. At least the first 20 or so posts as I didn't read all of this thread.
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Originally Posted by Clockwork O1
Just to clarify, nothing has changed on Street Justice since it was removed from beta in late August.
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You REALLY think that's a good solution? Most players ingame don't even know about the test server, imagine the f2p ones. May work for you, for me, but we're regular forumites, most players aren't. And some people won't want to install another game instance, not all have fast internet and you have to search the forums to find out that you can 'shorten' the install process by copying files.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Or you can use the test server to try it out all you like before deciding to make the purchase.
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I mean, really?
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No, not really. Every one of those points is easily addressed by the player simply WAITING. The numbers are available in-game. Check them. If you want to see the animations, wait to see someone else using it. If you want to preview a power, check it out on Test AFTER it's released.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
While I agree with this, the developers do have the responsibility to do the following for this and any other power set that has to be purchased:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Really, why
Does it pay to loose that customer for the cost of a single purchase? Really |
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And he was wrong. |
Originally Posted by CaptainBrawl
did you not read what he said dude? he said they nerfed it from when it was on beta IE he played it on BETA and when it came OUT they nerfed it and did NOT say anything about the nerf.....
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Several people have already provided the quote by Clockwork 01 that the set was not changed since it was removed from Beta.
If he had played it on Beta, that would be even more of a knock against his claims that he didn't know what the set was like.
I believe you are misinformed in this regard, but if Shubbie wants to step up and say he played it on Beta, I'll accept that statement.
I don't think that's going to happen.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
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What was that line from Dr. Manhattan? Something like, "And the universe will not notice."|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Ive already decided what to do, i will write to customer service if they cant or wont help me, Ill just be suspending my account for 3-6 months till I get bored of a shortly coming out game that might include something with a little Force.
No harm no foul, Ill feel as if I cost them money they would have otherwise gotten, and feel satisfied without any of the fuss. |
And, of course, there is some fuss - the fuss you're creating. If it really was about personal satisfaction, you would take that action without all the drama. By announcing it here, you're grandstanding.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Do you honestly think creating a batch of disgruntled players, who act disgruntled and complain on chat and forum really helps there game in any way?
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
But they do need to come up with a clear and concise refund policy.
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Sorry, forgot the sarcasm tags around "revised".
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
Just want to reiterate that Clockwork 01 today said that Street Justice has not been changed since it's removal from beta in August.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Yeah, they have no way to bring up the power info in the game and adjust the a level slider to give them stats.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Player reported, not official channels and not in game before purchase. If it is on the test server, then that is ok for low levels, but doesn't show what would happen at higher levels unless a player is willing to spend a lot of time on a throw-away character.
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Nope. Wish they would.
{/Sarcasm}
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| When, before Issue 21, have they charged $10 for a single power set? |
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They had a beta test for a week before the Going Rogue Pre-sale where players could test Dual Pistols before release. Open beta for around 3 weeks before Going Rogue went live. |
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| The only official venues for the information are the test server and official announcements. |
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
So you are saying that Paragon Studios has no ethical responsibility to inform players what they are buying? I think that could be challenged in the courts or under any number of consumer protection acts.
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The distribution of those points by the player is entirely discretionary. If someone chooses to leap before they look...
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
I'm very pleased with the set, but I can agree with stating a refund policy. However, I do not think they should allow for testing a set. Instead, prompt the customer to go to the test server, where it is also live, to get e feel for the set for a limited time, maybe 24 hours.