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/agree.. with this plus|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Um, no. All that isn't necessary. Giving nova attacks a direct damage increase in lieu of a buff and give dwarf form psionic and toxic resistance is all that's required to bring the forms in line with the human form at this point.
The LAST thing we need is to overcomplicate it. |
Increase dwarf hp cap to 3k or 3500.. So its more = to todays type of tank..
End drain protection in both form would be great..
Lastly if they could make toggles suppress while shifted instead of droped.. so you get a real feel of a shape shifting AT.. That change alone would make me go back to human dwarf.
Freedom:
Iron-Blade 50kat/invul Iron Ascension 50trifpb Cinder Reborn 50fire/kin Zaha'doom 50triws Cindered Stones 50fire/ston ColdFusion 35 ice/rad Iron Ash 50 Fir/WP
Iron Wind km/regen Iron Static elec/reg Psy Entity 50 psy/dev Iron-Assassin 50 nin/nin
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Be careful what you wish for, here. If I'm not mistaken suppressed toggles still consume endurance, do they not? Not really sure if I remember that correctly, though.
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Originally Posted by IronAlex
Lastly if they could make toggles suppress while shifted instead of droped.. so you get a real feel of a shape shifting AT.. That change alone would make me go back to human dwarf.
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The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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even if they do, i think that'd be a fair price to keep them going. with inherent stamina on top of the recov bonus that forms give I can't imagine it being all that much of a problem.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Be careful what you wish for, here. If I'm not mistaken suppressed toggles still consume endurance, do they not? Not really sure if I remember that correctly, though.
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Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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yeah especially if we get the raise in hp and dmg.. that would be worth it.. i would sing on to that..
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Originally Posted by PC_guy
even if they do, i think that'd be a fair price to keep them going. with inherent stamina on top of the recov bonus that forms give I can't imagine it being all that much of a problem.
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Freedom:
Iron-Blade 50kat/invul Iron Ascension 50trifpb Cinder Reborn 50fire/kin Zaha'doom 50triws Cindered Stones 50fire/ston ColdFusion 35 ice/rad Iron Ash 50 Fir/WP
Iron Wind km/regen Iron Static elec/reg Psy Entity 50 psy/dev Iron-Assassin 50 nin/nin
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Not to mention, you are only adding one toggle to the mix - dwarf form or nova form - which also comes with +rec to boot. It's a very nice QOL feature and if people are concerned about paying the cost of the suppressed toggles they can still be turned off.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Be careful what you wish for, here. If I'm not mistaken suppressed toggles still consume endurance, do they not? Not really sure if I remember that correctly, though.
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Asked Avatea about making a Feedback Thread for Kheldians in the Feedback Forum ... and she declined ... but offered the Feedback - City of Heroes - Updates to Powers thread in place of a dedicated thread since the Updates to Powers thread isn't really moving with other traffic at this time.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Also from the patch notes with the autohit taunt thing:
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Really impressed with the speed the devs are starting to pick up on these things.
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Warshades Umbral Aura/Shadow Cloak now provides its defense to all types of damage, with no suppression of defense on entering combat. |
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Why have the toggles suppress? If they just carried over into forms, it would make both the forms and the shields much more attractive and easier to use. That's all toggles too; assault, etc. And while we're at it, let my Dwarf click hasten. Integrate the forms into the AT.
If the AT mods cannot be altered on the fly (such that Nova gets less benefit from the shields for example), then a swap ammo trick can be used to swap the value with a reduced one. Nova would still be getting decent numbers from Tough and Weave, but whoopdie-do, Blasters get an Epic pool with superior armour powers.
I think our goal should be to make each form not just a plug for the holes in the Kheld's abilities, but a fully-fledged and useful way of fighting in their own right. Shouldn't require massive changes, just a difference in emphasis. With Taunt autohitting and Mez becoming less of an issue (so Dwarf isn't a glorified break free) I'd say we're making great strides to it.
OMG! How like, totally kewl are these characters?!1
One thing I'm going to keep repeating is that - even if these changes get balanced out so that the forms aren't obviated - Peacebringers are still going to be dealing subpar damage when compared to Warshades (and practically everyone else in the game). The new Inner Light helps, but - as I've been pointing out since I first heard the suggestion to turn build up into something like rage - it isn't enough. Photon Seekers have had their recharge adjusted, but they're still suffering from kludgy design and execution, not to mention that their potential for being overpowered is further mitigated by the addition of knockback. (you know I'm going to find a way to work that "knockback=limiting factor" schtick in somehow 
)
I could understand this if Peacebringers were the support archetype of the Kheldian race, but Warshades are superior mezzers, as well. Does one ally heal and a group fly that nobody takes make us support?
Ghost Falcon is on record stating that he's (paraphrasing, here) more or less fine with our damage numbers, so much so that he's afraid that fixing an admittedly underperforming power like Pulsar will overpower us.
O.o
So just what is the area in which we are supposed to excel? We could toss ideas and pet suggestions out all day long, but I'd rather have a direction, if for no other reason than to know the new proper way to respec my main character so he isn't mistaken by other players as my "B Team" (as it was so eloquently put the other night - kinda made me sad).
That, and I need to know what proc effect I can suggest be added to Photon Seekers.
.......
(If you can't laugh at yourself, right?)
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Which was part of why I suggested another single target attack a while back for Dwarf form. Sure, it's a band-aid, but increasing Dwarf single-target damage can't possibly hurt and gives a reason to take the form - a PBAoE that's only KD instead of KB without compromising all of your damage.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
One thing I'm going to keep repeating is that - even if these changes get balanced out so that the forms aren't obviated - Peacebringers are still going to be dealing subpar damage when compared to Warshades (and practically everyone else in the game).
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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yeah for reall.. all toggles should carry over into forms.. |
Originally Posted by oreso
Why have the toggles suppress? If they just carried over into forms, it would make both the forms and the shields much more attractive and easier to use. That's all toggles too; assault, etc. And while we're at it, let my Dwarf click hasten. Integrate the forms into the AT.
If the AT mods cannot be altered on the fly (such that Nova gets less benefit from the shields for example), then a swap ammo trick can be used to swap the value with a reduced one. Nova would still be getting decent numbers from Tough and Weave, but whoopdie-do, Blasters get an Epic pool with superior armour powers. I think our goal should be to make each form not just a plug for the holes in the Kheld's abilities, but a fully-fledged and useful way of fighting in their own right. Shouldn't require massive changes, just a difference in emphasis. With Taunt autohitting and Mez becoming less of an issue (so Dwarf isn't a glorified break free) I'd say we're making great strides to it. |
That would raise dwarf and nova resistance and make it somewhat like their counterparts..
Also it will make try form look appetizing as much as human form.. cause know you know you can have tactics on in nova.. or tough and weave on with dwarf.. You will still be locked out of the attacks but toggles would be on.. and you can switch between forms like no ones business..
Then it would be a fluid motion instead of transform to human and stop for 5 min to put on toggles.
Freedom:
Iron-Blade 50kat/invul Iron Ascension 50trifpb Cinder Reborn 50fire/kin Zaha'doom 50triws Cindered Stones 50fire/ston ColdFusion 35 ice/rad Iron Ash 50 Fir/WP
Iron Wind km/regen Iron Static elec/reg Psy Entity 50 psy/dev Iron-Assassin 50 nin/nin
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clearly the answer is standing around until everybody on your team dies and then you die too because it's been a minute and 30 seconds. that's why they buffed dwarf form taunt after all, you're supposed to be a pre-bruise tank who can't actually tank!|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
So just what is the area in which we are supposed to excel? We could toss ideas and pet suggestions out all day long, but I'd rather have a direction, if for no other reason than to know the new proper way to respec my main character so he isn't mistaken by other players as my "B Team" (as it was so eloquently put the other night - kinda made me sad).
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but really, i don't think at the moment it's possible to get the majority of players to accept peacebringers as anything but a joke archetype until they lose the knockback on their pbaoes/melee attacks at the very least. even then their numbers would still suck, but at least they wouldn't be an active detriment to the team if they wanted to use their primary area attack powers in a game that is mostly based around area attack damage..
also, i noticed something in your attack chains: you've got radiant strike and solar flare in them, which both do significant knockback. does the DPS account for the time you have to spend chasing the enemy to attack them again? i didn't see any specific parameter for that so i kinda assumed that wasn't the case, which means that the DPS values against almost everything that's not an AV is even lower than imagined. same goes for the aoe DPS, which doesn't seem to account for solar flare or photon seekers blowing everything away so you can't actually attack the enemies.
numbers are one thing, but actual gameplay is a whole other bag. the bad news is that peacebringers are horrible when it comes to both, and the latter will always make sure that no matter how good the former are they'll still be bad. that's just the knockback though.
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If all the toggles and clicks carried over to all the forms I will be the happiest player in the game. OMG a Bright Nova with 3 Shields, Inner Light, Light Form, 2 heals, etc..... That would be the best ever and I will not ever complain about KB on solar flare again. |
Originally Posted by IronAlex
yeah for reall.. all toggles should carry over into forms..
That would raise dwarf and nova resistance and make it somewhat like their counterparts.. Also it will make try form look appetizing as much as human form.. cause know you know you can have tactics on in nova.. or tough and weave on with dwarf.. You will still be locked out of the attacks but toggles would be on.. and you can switch between forms like no ones business.. Then it would be a fluid motion instead of transform to human and stop for 5 min to put on toggles. |
But IMO I dont think it will ever happen and I am still stuck with a crappy KB.
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
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Really, letting certain powers carry over would just be good in general.|
Originally Posted by Big_Soto
If all the toggles and clicks carried over to all the forms I will be the happiest player in the game. OMG a Bright Nova with 3 Shields, Inner Light, Light Form, 2 heals, etc..... That would be the best ever and I will not ever complain about KB on solar flare again.
But IMO I dont think it will ever happen and I am still stuck with a crappy KB. |
Dwarf has a slight lack of damage...Dwarf using radiant strike and Incandescent strike? No more slight lack.
Nova with even more AoE's? Whole attack chain of nothing but AoE's. It'd be hillarious...possibly overpowered, but hillarious...
The problem is I really doubt they can single powers out like that. Its either "useable in forms" or not. Theres no "useable in dwarf" or "useable in nova", just one "useable in forms" category. Which is unfortunate, because forms with the added utility of various clicks and the like would be a fairly large boost for us.
I'm really happy for all the changes.
OHHHHHH.. I JUST THOUGH OF THIS.. this can fix all the problems.. if someone mentioned this before excuse me , my search foo has always sucked..
k heres what they do.. Since human form has melee and ranged powers... Instead of us getting all new set of powers when we transform, we will just have the human form powers carry over..
So transform to dwarf..
We would still have dwarf heal and taunt.
Radiant strike
I-Strike.
Solar flare.
Pulsar..
Dawn strike.
Inner Light
All the shields and the two human form heals.
And any other pool powers and light form carry over.
Now we raise the dwarf hp cap to 3000 and lower the resistance on dwarf to about 30% to all including psi.. since we will have access to all the shields and tough.. plus we would have three heals in dwarf making it an really effective tank..
Nova:
G-BOLD
G-EYE
G-BLAST
P-SCATTER
LUMINOUS
AND SEEKERS.
Inner light..
all shields and heals
and pools..
So now instead of enhancing powers we already have in human in forms.. we can just enhance one set and have the slots effective..
Idk what the balancing factor would be.. maybe someone else who knows about numbers can chime in...
Freedom:
Iron-Blade 50kat/invul Iron Ascension 50trifpb Cinder Reborn 50fire/kin Zaha'doom 50triws Cindered Stones 50fire/ston ColdFusion 35 ice/rad Iron Ash 50 Fir/WP
Iron Wind km/regen Iron Static elec/reg Psy Entity 50 psy/dev Iron-Assassin 50 nin/nin
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I've suggested this a few times. This is how it should have been done from the beginning. Powers that a clear analogies of each other should simply be the same power. Luminous Blast becomes Bright Nova Blast when you switch to Nova, with same slotting, etc. |
Originally Posted by IronAlex
OHHHHHH.. I JUST THOUGH OF THIS.. this can fix all the problems.. if someone mentioned this before excuse me , my search foo has always sucked..
k heres what they do.. Since human form has melee and ranged powers... Instead of us getting all new set of powers when we transform, we will just have the human form powers carry over.. So transform to dwarf.. We would still have dwarf heal and taunt. Radiant strike I-Strike. Solar flare. Pulsar.. Dawn strike. Inner Light All the shields and the two human form heals. And any other pool powers and light form carry over. Now we raise the dwarf hp cap to 3000 and lower the resistance on dwarf to about 30% to all including psi.. since we will have access to all the shields and tough.. plus we would have three heals in dwarf making it an really effective tank.. Nova: G-BOLD G-EYE G-BLAST P-SCATTER LUMINOUS AND SEEKERS. Inner light.. all shields and heals and pools.. So now instead of enhancing powers we already have in human in forms.. we can just enhance one set and have the slots effective.. Idk what the balancing factor would be.. maybe someone else who knows about numbers can chime in... |
Now, purist won't like it because they'll say that the forms should give 4/6 automatic extra powers when you pick them, so you don't have to pick the same powers in Human Form, thus potentially making all the forms very different in play. They have a point, but your suggestion would've been the better way to go, imo.
But...we're too for along now - this is never going to happen.
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what about WSs then? they don't have the analogous powers that PBs do. would you just leave them as is while giving PBs this massive overhaul? i don't think that seems fair. and hardly necessary for that matter.
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Originally Posted by IronAlex
OHHHHHH.. I JUST THOUGH OF THIS.. this can fix all the problems.. if someone mentioned this before excuse me , my search foo has always sucked..
k heres what they do.. Since human form has melee and ranged powers... Instead of us getting all new set of powers when we transform, we will just have the human form powers carry over.. So transform to dwarf.. We would still have dwarf heal and taunt. Radiant strike I-Strike. Solar flare. Pulsar.. Dawn strike. Inner Light All the shields and the two human form heals. And any other pool powers and light form carry over. Now we raise the dwarf hp cap to 3000 and lower the resistance on dwarf to about 30% to all including psi.. since we will have access to all the shields and tough.. plus we would have three heals in dwarf making it an really effective tank.. Nova: G-BOLD G-EYE G-BLAST P-SCATTER LUMINOUS AND SEEKERS. Inner light.. all shields and heals and pools.. So now instead of enhancing powers we already have in human in forms.. we can just enhance one set and have the slots effective.. Idk what the balancing factor would be.. maybe someone else who knows about numbers can chime in... |
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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Do you mean Arbiter Hawk? Doubt I've ever seen Ghost Falcon comment on them, and I don't think powers is really his purview.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Ghost Falcon is on record stating that he's (paraphrasing, here) more or less fine with our damage numbers, so much so that he's afraid that fixing an admittedly underperforming power like Pulsar will overpower us.
O.o So just what is the area in which we are supposed to excel? We could toss ideas and pet suggestions out all day long, but I'd rather have a direction, if for no other reason than to know the new proper way to respec my main character so he isn't mistaken by other players as my "B Team" (as it was so eloquently put the other night - kinda made me sad). |
I think the problem is that we don't really excel anywhere, with the current setup. I guess Warshades can excel at AOE damage, but I'm not sure how well their numbers compare with other such groups like Blasters. Still, I think Nova form should be more on par (for both Kheldian types) with Blasters. Same thing for Dwarf with Tanks. The autohit taunt is nice, but some status resists would round things out more, since Dwarf WILL be hit. I guess I can understand not having psi resists, since not all Tank sets do, but the status resists would be helpful.
Human form is still the sticky wicket in all this. However, I think if the above happens, Human form can safely be made to be more like a Scrapper or Dominator (and more competitive with those two ATs: at the moment, both blow away what a Peacebringer can do, and probably a Warshade). This is because each is significantly different, with its own pros and cons. There is also reason for a Kheldian to want all three forms, or to choose one or the other in a given situation. Each would also work as a single form focus as well.
I'm sure this cannot be done for I21, but I think it is something that should be done in the near future. Until the form's are adjusted to work and work well (both just for Kheldians and how they compare to ATs), we're still going to have issues. The current changes are good and getting better, but they're still not all the way there.
*added*
I should add what I mean by competitive. I think human form could be competitive with dominators if the KB was reduced more to KD (not necessarily in all powers) and Pulsar was made a guaranteed Mag 3. Probably also an ability for WS and PB players to stack with their AOE mez and ST mez as well (since both of their STs are hold). Damage would also need to be looked at there as well, because Dominator sets do more damage and more mez, from what I can see. However, even if all of the above were done, Doms would still be better at their jobs as they will have more crowd control tools. Kheldians would just be similar and at least on a level to compete.
Scrappers would be a different direction, but again, I'm not thinking Kheldians have to be better than those respective ATs in their form. Just competitive. Human form certainly does not compete for damage with Scrappers as it currently stands.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
I would say Warshades are already competitive in terms of crowd control. Inky Aspect, Gravitic Emanation, and Unchain Essence can stun entire groups... That's on top of the single target hold. I really don't think Warshade's Human form needs any more damage added on since it's already very proficient with utility.
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That's why I said *maybe* to the stacking. But it's also why I have always said Pulsar needs a guaranteed Mag 3. If you want to look at it that way, Solar Flare as KD would help round those things out as well. I dunno, Warshades may once again be the thing to target for, at least for mezzing capabilities (but Doms can definitely beat a Warshade at crowd control... between domination and all their powers, it's far easier and constant for them to do it). Not sure if Warshades in human can match up with Dominators for ST damage (probably for AOE) from the numbers Smiling Joe gave. I just don't have the analysis to know exactly with the DPS. I can just see how much Energy Assault outdoes PBs, and I think Energy is generally a middle of the road set.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I would say Warshades are already competitive in terms of crowd control. Inky Aspect, Gravitic Emanation, and Unchain Essence can stun entire groups... That's on top of the single target hold. I really don't think Warshade's Human form needs any more damage added on since it's already very proficient with utility.
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Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Comparing my WS to my fire/fire/fire dominator, I would say they are fairly close in damage but I would give the edge to the dominator. The Dom has more single target, control and Mez protection but the Warshade is much tougher. Its a fairly reasonable tradeoff.
I certainly appreciate Smiling_Joe and Grey Pilgrim keeping this topic alive for PBs 
My first fix for PBs would be to change KB to KD. I don't see why that is so hard to change.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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Do that Dom and Warshade have similar levels of IO slotting?|
Originally Posted by newchemicals
Comparing my WS to my fire/fire/fire dominator, I would say they are fairly close in damage but I would give the edge to the dominator. The Dom has more single target, control and Mez protection but the Warshade is much tougher. Its a fairly reasonable tradeoff.
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How well would they compare on SOs or pre50?
Cheers!
OMG! How like, totally kewl are these characters?!1
I think the basic flaw of Arbiter Hawk's analysis of KB vs KD for Peacebringers is trying to compare the PB powerset to Super Strength. This is a badly matched comparison from the get-go, simply because Super Strength is a Melee powerset with very limited AoE designed into the set ... Hand Clap and Foot Stomp only. Compare and contrast that to a Peacebringer's AoE powers ...
- Proton Scatter (human)
- Luminous Detonation (human)
- Pulsar (human)
- Solar Flare (human)
- Photon Seekers (human)
- Dawn Strike (human)
- Bright Nova Scatter (nova)
- Bright Nova Detonation (nova)
- White Dwarf Flare (dwarf)
The problem with this "back of the napkin" analysis/comparison of Peacebringer AoE potential vs Super Strength is that there is a ... significant reaction speed penalty to Form Shifting, due to excessively long animation times ... which dramatically reduces the "effectiveness" of adding the Nova/Dwarf AoE powers to the spreadsheet analysis of Human form AoE potential. There's also the issue of Form Shifting dropping Toggles. In analyzing just the Human Only PB powers vs Super Strength, it has to be admitted that Photon Seekers is *still* on a punitively long Recharge when compared to comparable powers in other powersets (I'm looking at you, Rain of Arrows!) ... while Dawn Strike is a NUKE attack with a debilitating Crash, which has absolutely no counterpart in the Super Strength powerset (because Super Strength is a Melee powerset and not a Blaster Primary).
What does that leave then, for "regular attack chain" AoE in Human Form? Proton Scatter and Luminous Detonation ... which are essentially "Blaster" styled powers, with training wheel restrictions on them ... and Pulsar and Solar Flare ... which are direct counterparts to Hand Clap and Foot Stomp (but with differences).
The real problem is that Peacebringers in Human (and Light) Form bring both Melee (ala Super Strength) and Ranged (ala Blaster Energy Blast) powers into the same Primary powerset. This makes any sort of "comparison" of the Melee/PBAoE/Cone/AoE powers for Peacebringers feel skewed whenever contrasting them with their parent/origin powersets (such as Super Strength and Energy Blast). Essentially, Peacebringers get penalized in both directions for having "too much AoE" as well as "too much Melee" when compared and contrasted with the "donor" powersets that the Peacebringer powers are cobbled together from (and yes, I mean that in the "kludged together" sense of cobbled together). As a result, Peacebringer Human form powers are woefully underpowered and BADLY SYNERGIZED with each other, where the Whole winds up being Less Than the sum of its parts because the Peacebringer attack powers are deliberately designed to be SELF LIMITING and SELF DENYING ... rather than SELF REINFORCING.
This is why, when Arbiter Hawk says things like "Peacebringers have too much AoE Potential to get KnockDOWN (or KnockUP), rather than KnockBACK" ... people who actually *play* Peacebringers are left aghast and apoplectic. It's basically the equivalent of throwing a bucket of water at someone who's drowning and asking for help. It shows a fundamental disconnect between what the players perceive, and what the Devs perceive, to be at issue with an entire *EPIC* Archetype ... which people are going to have to "pay for" in CoH: Freedom.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Big up to the Devs here. I know it's a bit of a kick in the teeth, I mean, you start making some changes and then a hundred players see something and come out of the woodwork to cry 'moar!'. But ya know, it -is- appreciated; we'd all just love to see the AT become a welcome addition to a team, rather than just an underdamaging scrapper that brings Cysts and PBAoE Knockback.
Yeah, the caps are fine as they are (maybe a bit more max HP), but the AT should be designed to work within them, rather than butt-heads against them constantly. It means we benefit -less- from teaming because we can't be buffed by outside sources (and this is a problem for PB and WS alike).
Proposal:
Renormalise the powers so that the AT functions well -without- being buffed to the cap at all times, and to balance, also curtail our ability to get to that cap without outside sources.
Implications:
This means our inherent will only provide a smaller buff (maybe up to +20% resistance or damage), but we'd still be capable while solo.
This means that Warshade's mire/eclipse wouldn't be as strong, but you wouldn't -need- perma-eclipse or whatever to do the damage you're doing already.
This means that the forms can provide buffs that will actually be beneficial, rather than wasted against the caps.
Cheers!
OMG! How like, totally kewl are these characters?!1