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It wouldn't make us overamped since every other AT can already do that and the forms simply are not uber enough to match the performance of those regular AT's.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Do you think allowing all pool powers to function while transformed would be a good thing or would PB/WS become overamped?
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But it also wouldn't solve the problem for PB's... which is their forms' utterly anemic damage output and a lack of a true role for their human form.
In terms of damage output I think the simplest of solutions would be to just change the -Defense of their attacks (which is mostly wasted) with a noticable amount of stackable -Resistance instead.
Not only would that allow the PB to do more damage directly (as the -Resist builds up on your target), it also allows everyone on the team to do more damage each time you fire off an attack (your AoE's turn into useful spawn-wide debuffs)... thereby starting to give back to the team in a meaningful way.
If it needed a bit more then I'd also add a -To Hit component to it (your targets are blinded by the bright light of your attacks) to reduce the damage your target's are able to inflict you and your team (much like how the WS's slow component reduces the number of attacks a target will be able to get off before it is dropped).
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Beg to differ, merely adding Fighting Pool's Boxing to the White Dwarf's attack chain would make things much, much smoother, and I'd trade that one change for all the others about to go live.|
Originally Posted by Titan_III
It wouldn't make us overamped since every other AT can already do that and the forms simply are not uber enough to match the performance of those regular AT's.
But it also wouldn't solve the problem for PB's... which is their forms' utterly anemic damage output and a lack of a true role for their human form. |
The lack of a true role for their human form part... well, that's true. As far as I can tell it's a blaster/scrapper/defender hydrid like the VEATs, only without the VEATs' damage, team buffs or inherent mez protection. But keep in mind that Kheldians are a relic of old, they were (poorly) designed back in issue 3 and have barely been looked at since.
Well, after having shelved her for a year, I've taken out my PB and have been Incarnatin' her in preparation for I21. Did Trials for a while yesterday - 3 separate times I was on Adds team.
1) "Ease up on the KB please..."
2) "We've got way too much KB going on here."
3) (direct tell) "PB, please control your KB"
I've been playing PBs for a long time, so I generally know how to control KB, meaning when I Solar Flare I'll go the edge of the Spawn and marvel when I maybe get 3 Targets in my Radius (but at least I'm knocking them back toward the middle right). I suspect there was just some PB bias going on, but I'm not blind, perception and realithy sometimes do go hand in hand. When I don't line things up just right (or just get tired of having to do it all the time) I can clearly see those bodies flying
Finally I gave up using Solar Flare completely if I was fighting Adds. So Arbiter Hawk, if our KB is designed to keep us from being overpowered, it's a gigantic success.
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Fixed it for you.|
Originally Posted by Socorro
So Arbiter Hawk, if our KB is designed to keep us from being sought after for team play, it's a gigantic success.
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Kind of ironic that an entire AT which is designed around the notion of "team play" is purposefully designed to deliver MAXIMUM AGGRAVATION to Team Players. It's almost as if the design intent *is* to be Self Defeating.
"Once again, I knockBACK a worthless object." - PB Goemon
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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It is rather sad how PBs look in new Light Form at the moment. I'm curious if it is possible to just borrow the FX from Eclipse and change the color to bright white or to alternatively just use one of the auras we already have in the costume designer, only changed so that it only activates with Light Form? Personally I'd love it if the Atomic aura set to white and body or maybe a combination of the Atomic and Alpha or Atomic and Glow auras, also set to white and body, could be used as that would look awesome.
| Arbiter Hawk said they are looking into FX changes (to the new Light Form) for this so it is more noticeable, but that is for the future. The FX and artist types are swamped. |
Originally Posted by Socorro 
So Arbiter Hawk, if our KB is designed to keep us from being sought after for team play, it's a gigantic success.
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
Fixed it for you.
Kind of ironic that an entire AT which is designed around the notion of "team play" is purposefully designed to deliver MAXIMUM AGGRAVATION to Team Players. It's almost as if the design intent *is* to be Self Defeating. "Once again, I knockBACK a worthless object." - PB Goemon |
This is so true.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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I haven't seen the new Light Form, but what I've gathered is that you can pretty much see your character all the time, there's just an extra aura-effect on her. If so, I'm all for that. I hated the Ball of Light - I like seeing my costumes, thank you. (also the main reason I never went for the forms, nor a stone tanker)
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Originally Posted by Irresponsible
It is rather sad how PBs look in new Light Form at the moment. I'm curious if it is possible to just borrow the FX from Eclipse and change the color to bright white or to alternatively just use one of the auras we already have in the costume designer, only changed so that it only activates with Light Form? Personally I'd love it if the Atomic aura set to white and body or maybe a combination of the Atomic and Alpha or Atomic and Glow auras, also set to white and body, could be used as that would look awesome.
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Yes, you're right on the money. The ball of light animation is gone. It has been replaced with (what looks like) three small balls of light hovering around you in an oval pattern. Reminds me a bit of an aura.
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Originally Posted by Socorro
I haven't seen the new Light Form, but what I've gathered is that you can pretty much see your character all the time, there's just an extra aura-effect on her. If so, I'm all for that. I hated the Ball of Light - I like seeing my costumes, thank you. (also the main reason I never went for the forms, nor a stone tanker)
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Agreed. Agreed so much it's not even funny.
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Originally Posted by newchemicals
Originally Posted by Socorro
So Arbiter Hawk, if our KB is designed to keep us from being sought after for team play, it's a gigantic success. This is so true. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I don't care about seeing the costume so much in LF, if I did I wouldn't be playing a Kheldian. One of the best things for me about PBs is that fact that LF is a form unto itself and I loved the glowing swirling globe. As it looks right now it's just kind of blah.
I've had exactly one person ever complain about my PB doing knockback and that was one of those bossy blaster types who was obviously just jealous that my attacks were killing all the mobs before he could trigger his nuke. When I stopped using doing my "annoying" knockback the team slowed to a crawl and started racking up the debt so that didn't last long.
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Any change apparently requires FX or animation time that they just do not have. I would think there are some options that would be better than they have now and not too much work, but we just don't know how much work they would take, or how much time FX and animation does have.|
Originally Posted by Irresponsible
It is rather sad how PBs look in new Light Form at the moment. I'm curious if it is possible to just borrow the FX from Eclipse and change the color to bright white or to alternatively just use one of the auras we already have in the costume designer, only changed so that it only activates with Light Form? Personally I'd love it if the Atomic aura set to white and body or maybe a combination of the Atomic and Alpha or Atomic and Glow auras, also set to white and body, could be used as that would look awesome.
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I do hope it is high on the priority list, as it is hard to tell Light Form is going when your other shields are on... and the shortened form shifting would make a huge difference in how well Kheldians play, at least in a QoL way.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Light Form as a ball of light was okay when it was an emergency power used every once in a while, but the new design seems to be with the intent that it will be used a lot more, and that what's I plan on doing. My new strategy come I21 will count on using Light Form pretty much perma; if I was constantly a ball of light - all - the - time - that's a strategy I wouldn't bother with.|
Originally Posted by Irresponsible
I don't care about seeing the costume so much in LF, if I did I wouldn't be playing a Kheldian. One of the best things for me about PBs is that fact that LF is a form unto itself and I loved the glowing swirling globe. As it looks right now it's just kind of blah.
I've had exactly one person ever complain about my PB doing knockback and that was one of those bossy blaster types who was obviously just jealous that my attacks were killing all the mobs before he could trigger his nova. When I stopped using doing my "annoying" knockback the team slowed to a crawl and started racking up the debt so that didn't last long. |
As far noone complaining about your KB, well aren't you lucky *clap clap*. I've had complaints at least a dozen times (incl. 3 times on trials this weekend), and I've literally not been invited to a team because I was a PB.
I know, I know...lrn2play right. Well I have. I know quite well how to Solar Flare on the edge of a mob (reducing my hits from 10+ to 3-4 in the process) or just not use it at all to keep a team happy.
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I wasn't talking about a ball of light. Have you seen the Atomic and Glow body auras? They look so cool.|
Originally Posted by Socorro
Light Form as a ball of light was okay when it was an emergency power used every once in a while, but the new design seems to be with the intent that it will be used a lot more, and that what's I plan on doing. My new strategy come I21 will count on using Light Form pretty much perma; if I was constantly a ball of light - all - the - time - that's a strategy I wouldn't bother with.
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As far noone complaining about your KB, well aren't you lucky *clap clap*. I've had complaints at least a dozen times (incl. 3 times on trials this weekend), and I've literally not been invited to a team because I was a PB. I know, I know...lrn2play right. Well I have. I know quite well how to Solar Flare on the edge of a mob (reducing my hits from 10+ to 3-4 in the process) or just not use it at all to keep a team happy. |
However, what if they instead reworked the nearly useless power of Group Energy Flight to something, perhaps called Gravity Pulse, which would cast an aura on a target that would change all knockback to knockdown on mobs within the radius of the power for a limited time? This would solve the problem of making PBs too overpowered in the Devs' eyes as it would require the selection, slotting, and use of another power in order to get the benefit of reduced knockback and would also depend on hitting a given target and that target staying alive and nearby other mobs in order to be effective, not to mention that it would be set on a timer and have to recharge and cost endurance to run. Maybe the Gravity Pulse aura could even do a little DoT damage to the target and nearby mobs to make up for PBs' still huge gap in damage output compared to Warshades?
Might it even be possible that if they did choose to rework the power thusly it could still provide a form of Group Flight when cast on allies?
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I'd get it and slot it the second it hit live |
Originally Posted by Irresponsible
...what if they did something like reworked the nearly useless power of Group Energy Flight to something, perhaps called Gravity Pulse, which would cast an aura around a target that would change all knockback to knockdown on mobs within the radius of the power for a limited time? This would solve the problem of making PBs too overpowerd in the Devs' eyes as it would require the selection, slotting, and use of another power in order to get the benefit of reduced knockback and would also depend on hiting a given target and that target staying alive and nearby other mobs in order to be effective, not to mention that it would be set on a timer. Maybe the Gravity Pulse aura could even do a little DoT damage to the target and nearby mobs to make up for PBs' still noticable lack of damage compared to Warshades?
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It's a sweet delicacy that involves cinnamon, Granny Smith apples, dark brown sugar, nutmeg and just a hint of cloves amongst other undisclosed ingredients.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
As per this thread. A wise Pilgrim told us to be expecting something, but my download is at like, 1% and I must know now.
Please do tell! |
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
I remember being on a Team with two PB's who would nuke or...use this huge PBaoe KD power on every new mob(Sorry, I only play warshades) I was playing my Archery/ Energy Blaster so I found myself either A) going to a mob ahead of everyone else just so I can use RoA and then get Taken out or B) Just not use RoA or Fistfull of Arrows. I didn't mind having to adapt and change my normal play style because of the KB I just hated having to Stop using those two powers 
because the mobs would be all over the place.
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| So Arbiter Hawk, if our KB is designed to keep us from being sought after for team play, it's a gigantic success. |
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
Fixed it for you.
Kind of ironic that an entire AT which is designed around the notion of "team play" is purposefully designed to deliver MAXIMUM AGGRAVATION to Team Players. It's almost as if the design intent *is* to be Self Defeating. "Once again, I knockBACK a worthless object." - PB Goemon |
Is this still the most popular thread on the beta board besides the Level Bump requests? Should be a sign that these issues are very important to the community.
edit: Looks like it's been surpassed. Still though.
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
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Kind of ironic that an entire AT which is designed around the notion of "team play" is purposefully designed to deliver MAXIMUM AGGRAVATION to Team Players. It's almost as if the design intent *is* to be Self Defeating. |
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Originally Posted by newchemicals
This is so true.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Agreed. Agreed so much it's not even funny.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Painfully true.
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- Me ... In Real Life
And to be honest, I hadn't been expecting (but I guess I should have...) the level of ... support? ... agreement? ... sadness? ... this turn of events, and failure to take the opportunities presented (in no uncertain terms!), has brought us.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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Honestly, the Peacebringers already do some of the least amount of damage in the game. Changing Knockback to Knockdown is going to make them OP? Highly doubtful. The above is only a testament to how much the PB's need that change.|
Originally Posted by Socorro
Well, after having shelved her for a year, I've taken out my PB and have been Incarnatin' her in preparation for I21. Did Trials for a while yesterday - 3 separate times I was on Adds team.
1) "Ease up on the KB please..." 2) "We've got way too much KB going on here." 3) (direct tell) "PB, please control your KB" I've been playing PBs for a long time, so I generally know how to control KB, meaning when I Solar Flare I'll go the edge of the Spawn and marvel when I maybe get 3 Targets in my Radius (but at least I'm knocking them back toward the middle right). I suspect there was just some PB bias going on, but I'm not blind, perception and realithy sometimes do go hand in hand. When I don't line things up just right (or just get tired of having to do it all the time) I can clearly see those bodies flying Finally I gave up using Solar Flare completely if I was fighting Adds. So Arbiter Hawk, if our KB is designed to keep us from being overpowered, it's a gigantic success. |
And also, here is why human form should get mez protection; Not everyone wants to play a triform playstyle. I, myself, am triform, but I do not believe it is fair to punish others for playing a character the way they want to play them. Without mez protection, human form is as good as useless half the time when soloing. It takes some extreme skill to be successful as a human form kheldian as it is now.
Counter: Just bring break frees!
Counter to Counter: You can only care so many of them. And you might want to hold onto other inspirations. Eventually, you'll be using more than you get.
Counter: It's their own choice to hinder themselves by choosing not to take Dwarf for mez protect!
Counter to Counter: Here's how it is balanced; Mez protection is the fair trade off for lower damage in human form. Come on, we all know human form's damage is on the lower end of the spectrum.
Anyone else have any Counters to my arguement? I'll attempt to counter your counter
(None of the above is intended to be snarky at all. Seriously.)
Templar of Truth Level 50+++ Triform Peacebringer - Server Freedom
Templar of Judgement Level 50+++ Triform Warshade - Server Freedom
Gaze into the Abyss... OR ...Walk in the LightTemplar of Judgement Level 50+++ Triform Warshade - Server Freedom
And you thought eight Kheldians were awesome...
I think the problem is that since you can have LF up so much now and its crash is much easier to deal with that if LF had higher than the 3.1 mezz protection available now then there would be a lot less reason to use Dwarf form.
As it is I've yet to be mezzed by anything while in LF and I've been going up against Rikti at +2 level.
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That's lvl 38+, does lvl 1-37 not deserve mez protection like the VEATs, scrappers, brutes and stalkers, who get it no later than lvl 16? Pure human form plays a similar role to those ATs, and yet it receives differential treatment regarding both damage, defenses and mez protection. On that note, it's the same with warshades but, since there's a very good end-game Tri-form combo for them, it's like they don't deserve a buff...|
Originally Posted by Irresponsible
I think the problem is that since you can have LF up so much now and its crash is much easier to deal with that if LF had higher than the 3.1 mezz protection available now then there would be a lot less reason to use Dwarf form.
As it is I've yet to be mezzed by anything while in LF and I've been going up against Rikti at +2 level. |
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Originally Posted by Diggaroo
Anyone else have any Counters to my arguement? I'll attempt to counter your counter
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There's your counter. A weak one, I know, but enough to keep the buffs away for the moment. IMO, until that inherent is looked at, there's never going to be any serious buffs coming this way.
To be fair Incandescent Strike and Pulsar, available at levels 18 and 22 respectively, do help some since the best mezz protection is still to mezz the mezzers before they can mezz you. And if you are soloing then you can knockback to your heart's content and that's another useful way to neutralize a mezzer. But yeah, you are gonna be dependent on Break Frees a lot if you go solo and Human Form only prior to level 38.
a st attack that takes 3 seconds to animate and a mag 2 stun will save you from holds
got it
also the problem with the inherent is that they all buff things you'd find in the power attributes window. the two power buffs we got right now follow the same kind of idea, with global numbers being focused on more than the numbers of the actual powers... which is the real problem when it comes to peacebringer damage.
even when i'm riding at a constant 100% damage buff because the team decided to have 5 defenders/tanks for some reason i still do less damage than a scrapper without that constant buff. the global number is really high, especially with it being boosted to 200% with build up but since the actual numbers on the attacks are middling the output doesn't necessarily match up with the competition a majority of the time.
oh yeah also the attack strings have significant pauses in them so you do even less damage than indicated on DPS charts because you usually have to run after a dude because lol knockback on radiant strike, gleaming blast and solar flare.
Do you think allowing all pool powers to function while transformed would be a good thing or would PB/WS become overamped?
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