Tabcef
-
Posts
36 -
Joined
-
a st attack that takes 3 seconds to animate and a mag 2 stun will save you from holds
got it
also the problem with the inherent is that they all buff things you'd find in the power attributes window. the two power buffs we got right now follow the same kind of idea, with global numbers being focused on more than the numbers of the actual powers... which is the real problem when it comes to peacebringer damage.
even when i'm riding at a constant 100% damage buff because the team decided to have 5 defenders/tanks for some reason i still do less damage than a scrapper without that constant buff. the global number is really high, especially with it being boosted to 200% with build up but since the actual numbers on the attacks are middling the output doesn't necessarily match up with the competition a majority of the time.
oh yeah also the attack strings have significant pauses in them so you do even less damage than indicated on DPS charts because you usually have to run after a dude because lol knockback on radiant strike, gleaming blast and solar flare. -
arbiter hawk reading the kheldian forums on "how peacebringers should be changed" kind of scares me because while there's lots of reasonable folks like in this thread i got the feeling there's more than a fair share of folks who will defend peacebringers as they are to the death, or state that they don't need significant buffs. i think a consistent feedback thread would be nice, even just for the existence of a place to discuss the ideas going on. hell i think this thread is a pretty good one for that, and if it could be changed into the kheldian feedback thread and moved or something that'd be pretty baller since it's got a good collection of ideas, hard numbers an analysis and whatnot.
edit: really just more communication out of "hey pm me ya'll!" would be nice. simply having an intermediary seems kinda pointless, but then again the last time he posted was that golden gem so i guess i could see the reason for some hesitation with that even though the best way to dispel that is just talkin' more so we can get a discussion going on between players and devs.
i'm not actually sure of what function light form is supposed to have without high-end IOing/high recharge builds since it doesn't really act as a panic button or AV fighting button, and popping it every couple of groups seems.. inconsistent? someone in the thread earlier mentioned that it helps at lower levels of enhancement because it lets them use it more but thinking about it i guess i don't find the idea of having such an inconsistent semi-godmode (barrier?) appealing -
honestly i'm just hoping i22 holds some bigger changes, since i21 is already pretty busy as is. but really it's best not to hope for much 'cause lol peacebringers
-
Quote:i'd tell them to unlock a soldier or fortunata since those two don't require extreme IO slotting (which they won't have access to as a free/premium player) to be effective.Originally Posted by Leese
Little, hypothetical question for the thread.
A new player comes up to you. They're interested in buying access to Peacebringers and/or Warshades in the Store, and want to know if you think it's worth it.
Would you advise them to spend their money on unlocking Peacebringers and/or Warshades?
If this question were about Controllers, or Masterminds I would say yes, no question. Warshades and VEATs, I don't have enough experience on, but I wouldn't advise against it.
Peacebringers... I don't know. I wouldn't want to say "don't bother," I like my PB, but any answer I give would have to be heavily qualified.
warshades need IO slotting to be really good instead of middling, and peacebringers need IO slotting to be middling instead of a horrible joke.
i'm sure this will eventually happen: a person who just on a whim decides to unlock one of the epic archetypes, and is trying to decide between a soldier or a peacebringer.. and ends up picking the peacebringer
boy i'mma feel sorry for that dude.
yeah i actually originally typed out "melee damage" but then i realized peacebringers aren't in the melee damage section. yep..Quote:Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
What's really sad is that Kheldians have three forms and only merited placement in two categories. What about human form? -
seriously are we back at the point of discussion where we're going "no ya'll it's ok!! just be happy we got ANY buffs it's ok, stop asking for things!"
the light form discussion is great, but the constant derails of "hush up you fool, what if they nerf x!!", or "stop complaining or else they'll never buff us!" does nothing for the discussion and contributes nothing for the devs to read other than i guess something for a good laugh (shoutouts to the folks going "ugh peacebringers too good, NERF PEACEBRINGERS" in this thread..)
to make it clear, again:
the buffs are good.
obviously.
but they don't address the issues peacebringers have.
they bring the pure numbers up without doing anything about the problems with peacebringers, whether it's the knockback, the severe underperformance of the forms, or the overall lack of damage and utility of peacebringers in comparison to the archetypes that they're supposed to be imitating.
tell me what role other than "space filler/damage filler" that a peacebringer occupies even with these new buffs.
a tank? the crash on light form makes it so consistent tanking isn't achievable without severe workarounds and even then the ability to tank requires high-end slotting in the first place.
a scrapper, blaster, or blapper? the damage output isn't comparable in the slightest when working on even levels.
the categories peacebringers fall under in the new power selection screen are ranged damage and tanking. they don't do any of these effectively. in fact i'm pretty sure these placements are based entirely on the existence of the now mostly worthless forms (in terms of hassle and effectiveness vs. staying in humanform) so that's pretty funny in it's own right too.
the discussion on how peacebringers should be improved always ends up centering itself around "peacebringers vs. warshades", when it really should be "peacebringers vs. the respective archetypes they are imitating".
so far from this thread once that line gets brought up, it always ends up stalling the discussion with pissing contests of "but oh no you see, peacebringers are actually better at X than warshades!" when that shouldn't even be the primary concern or focus of the discussion.
it would help a lot if the devs posted what they expect peacebringers to function as, and how they fulfill that role. otherwise we end up running into the wall of playstyle differences when it comes to suggesting improvements. -
hey ya'll i just wanted to say
buff peacebringers they're still a joke
ok thanks
p.s. the new light form is great and all but the crash sucks and also more importantly everything else about peacebringers still sucks -
just remove peacebringers from all categories and put them into their own category with the ???? stats as to trick people into playing them
that's pretty much the only way i can see them any new players
at all -
Quote:peacebringersOriginally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
The same philosophy is true for any AT or character. Once you get an IO build and a firm understanding of what you can do, you can shine in almost any situation. Given the fact that Kheldians are the focus of this thread, I don't feel it should be opened up to that extent... But the post I quoted implied that only Warshades shine with IO builds. News flash: Everything shines with IO builds! The sky is blue, also!
-
some defenders can really hurt, especially if they're slotted out hard. i know for a fact that cold/sonic can hurt way more than a peacebringer thanks to the magic of sleet, and i guarantee you that my traps/sonic is better at taking on groups of enemies than my peacebringer (though that might more be a function of utility rather than pure damage, which defenders have over peacebringers in spades.)
that's why i'd really like for peacebringers to gain some kind of overall team utility, because giving them a dinky heal and group fly (ahahahahahahaha) aren't really truly effective non-direct damage contribution to a team. the teamwide cosmic balance would be a pretty good start on that, i think!
being a jack of all trades in this game is meaningless if you suck at everything worse than almost everybody. -
Quote:the breakneck pace of most of the game in teams has it so that clumped groups of enemies are the best as aoe damage is king in most scenarios.Originally Posted by Siolfir
There. This is quoting out of context.
KB can be good or bad. In most of my experience, when something requires forethought and attention to be good, but requires no thought and button mashing to be bad, you assume it's bad.
I've had too many mobs knocked into walls - and thus unattackable, occasionally requiring a petition to finish missions - to be shown otherwise. If you assume other people you team with are idiots, you don't want them to have KB and you can be happy to be proven wrong.
think about it this way: in a team you don't spend time carefully positioning yourself on the edge of each enemy group, perfectly trying to get that ~golden angle~ where you knock them back into a corner for massive damage and clumping.
instead the general plan is very much bum rushing everything to death, just hopping into the next group one after the other. in the 10 seconds of positioning and 10 seconds of recharge for your next mega-special solar flare a competent team will have already have reamed the mob and moved on to the next one. well i guess maybe not since you probably slowed them down by knocking the enemies away and leaving them unsaturated for the pain train (read: not your character)
knockback can be useful, but if in the large majority of cases it's detrimental to your character's specifically designed playstyle (melee with significant knockback..?) or the team then it's kinda bad.
cmon dude the thread's been talking about melee/pbaoe knockback not ranged. nobody's been asking for the ranged knockback to be removed, or saying that it's a mitigating force in damage for those attacks. they're saying it's a mitigating force for melee, which is a given considering it forces the player to run after a dude to hit them again with the same power. kick-the-can style melee and whatnot.Quote:Originally Posted by Gilia
Find a post where the developers said ranged knockbacks rein in damage, or for Pete's sake stop taking what they say so far out of context. You might as well flat out lie about what they said.
Just to expound, lest the ignorance has lent itself to lysis:
The devs didn't say knockback would rein in damage, one dev said turning a melee power's KB to KD would increase damage.
you're ignoring the real part of contention in the quote and what everyone is taking a serious facepalm to:
Quote:Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk-Solar Flare - Not going to change knockback into knockdown at this time. While many of you are saying It should do what Foot Stomp does!,Peacebringers have more AoE damage potential than Super Strength characters. When looking at the PBs whole toolkit as a unit, rather than at individual powers, we think theyre in pretty good shape after the changes that have already been made. -
people who are saying light form is a more dependable power:
have you actually tried using the new version of it in perma/close to perma?
i don't understand how someone could say this if they had experienced the crash firsthand. avoiding the crash and ending up with little endurance after fighting in tf or x8 situations where you actually have to contribute to a fight is nigh impossible, and recovering from it so you can maintain light form without being completely disabled requires you to give up one of your incarnate slots to do so for extended periods of time. and that's only if you have it significantly perma'd in. without that it's even worse.
please don't forget about the crash because it really is that significant. -
Quote:clearly the answer is standing around until everybody on your team dies and then you die too because it's been a minute and 30 seconds. that's why they buffed dwarf form taunt after all, you're supposed to be a pre-bruise tank who can't actually tank!Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
So just what is the area in which we are supposed to excel? We could toss ideas and pet suggestions out all day long, but I'd rather have a direction, if for no other reason than to know the new proper way to respec my main character so he isn't mistaken by other players as my "B Team" (as it was so eloquently put the other night - kinda made me sad).
but really, i don't think at the moment it's possible to get the majority of players to accept peacebringers as anything but a joke archetype until they lose the knockback on their pbaoes/melee attacks at the very least. even then their numbers would still suck, but at least they wouldn't be an active detriment to the team if they wanted to use their primary area attack powers in a game that is mostly based around area attack damage..
also, i noticed something in your attack chains: you've got radiant strike and solar flare in them, which both do significant knockback. does the DPS account for the time you have to spend chasing the enemy to attack them again? i didn't see any specific parameter for that so i kinda assumed that wasn't the case, which means that the DPS values against almost everything that's not an AV is even lower than imagined. same goes for the aoe DPS, which doesn't seem to account for solar flare or photon seekers blowing everything away so you can't actually attack the enemies.
numbers are one thing, but actual gameplay is a whole other bag. the bad news is that peacebringers are horrible when it comes to both, and the latter will always make sure that no matter how good the former are they'll still be bad. that's just the knockback though. -
Quote:you're viewing white dwarf as a mez protection form, when instead of attempting to nerf new strengths given to humanform there should be proposals to buff dwarf form so it doesn't only function as a mez protection tool but instead as an actual tanking form, which means... more resists, more defense, actual damage instead of the really awful damage they have right now.Originally Posted by Redlynne
*IF* Light Form is being given -3 Mag Protection vs All Mez, I would (strongly) recommend to Arbiter Hawk (et al.) that instead of doing that the Three Shield Powers for Peacebringers should be given -1 Mag Protection vs All Mez *each* and Light Form grant no Mez Protection.
Now ... what would be really interesting is if Light Form were synergized with Cosmic Balance such that a Peacebringer, with Light Form up, gains an additional -0.5 Mag Protection vs All Mez for each Teammate, regardless of AT, within Cosmic Balance's radius of effect, from Cosmic Balance, while Light Form is in effect. This would require the addition of only a single additional "buff line" to Cosmic Balance with a conditional of (when in Light Form) in order to achieve substantially the same effect in Teams as the -3 Mag Protection vs All Mez that has been coded into Light Form for Beta. The major difference is that if the Mez Protect of Light Form is "keyed" through Cosmic Balance (and thus, Teaming), it won't overshadow the Mez Protection aspect of White Dwarf to the same extent in Solo Play, and thus Light Form will be "less" of an obsoleting factor for Dwarf Form than as currently proposed for Issue 21.
we need to take the "nerf" mindset out of the discussion and focus on buffs, things that would increase the functions of each of the forms not only in relation to the other forms, but -other archetypes-, which is the more important aspect of proposing changes.
umm, stuff that has been suggested that i really like that i think would vastly improve peacebringers outside of hard number increases would be:
- knockback to knockdown on melee attacks. pretty sure this has been gone over more times than anyone can bare to stand so yeah...
- -res on attacks instead of -def (or both?), but has to be a significant amount or else it's just another dumb pointless thing. this increases team functionality, damage output and gives peacebringers team functionality in their forms in different manners while still retaining effectiveness regardless of position. more on this later in the list in regards to improved functionality (and variability)
- cosmic balance buffs being two way, with team members recieving the buffs they give the peacebringer or whatever variation of that. it's something that would take away the "leech" image of peacebringers while obviously allowing them to actually be beneficial to a team in a direct buff manner. (still find it comedic villain epics are better teammates than their hero counterparts)
- dwarf form vastly improved. i'm humanform only but from what i can tell they suffer in every single aspect, so they need to function better as a tank period. to not affect the other forms while still remaining effective i think would require a pretty major buffing to them with things like:
resist against end drain/recharge slow/status effects that aren't mezzes basically
a natural defense component to the form, as without it humanform will straight up be more survivable regardless of what other changes there are due to the lack of toggles for dwarf form.
improved numbers on their attacks period. this isn't something you can work around, because even if the -res got implemented into peacebringer attacks i don't believe dwarfs would be able to output significant enough amounts of damage to mitigate enemies by death (an actual important aspect of tankers!)
i think with these kinda changes they can function as an actual tanker more or less, by having significantly more survivability than humanform while providing more to a team than simply surviving through the above -res (better than bruising as to make up for lack of attacks?)
- nova form's changes i think would be very numbers based, with tweaks on their attacks recharge time, damage and whatnot.. like dwarf i don't know the specifics of nova form but it always seemed like they lost steam because their damage wasn't enough in both numbers and speed... with the -res aspect they'd be able to do a persistent amount of AOE damage that would ideally outperform humanform AOE damage by a significant amount.
i guess overall i believe a -res component to peacebringer attacks would open up a very wide avenue of team functionality across all three forms.. i don't think humanform needs much more outside of some numbers tweaks.
edit: actually overall i think it would open up a larger variability of playstyles for peacebringers, since the powers taken would supplement the squid/dwarf forms in a very direct manner while still remaining effective in humanform. i think it'd even allow for a different humanform style of play to work, with a kind of defender-like debuff playstyle by taking only the blasts (including aoe, which would obviously still do significantly less damage than the nova ones) but also having the survivability aspects of the humanform.
i'm sure a lot of these have been suggested several times but i think in conjunction they'd allow for peacebringers to be a very flexible playstyle archetype. the hard numbers would obviously determine if it were "overpowered or underpowered" or whatever, but i think the changes suggested would be good at establishing peacebringers as an interesting and unique AT that people would actually want to play. - knockback to knockdown on melee attacks. pretty sure this has been gone over more times than anyone can bare to stand so yeah...
-
if you plan to slot out your PB then it's fine to drop all the powers you really needed before for "survivability" in the loosest sense.
by frankenslotting light form with the 4 high level resist/recharge IOs from sets you can get 81.97% resists to everything and a 2m33s recharge time so there's no major point in taking any of the resist or anti-knockback sets (though acrobatics might still be needed since you only get 3 points of mez protection...)
as of now my current build on the beta server has 76.25% recharge from 5 lotgs plus set bonuses, 40% s/l defense with toggles on and near capped resists. the selection of powers humanform peacebringers get lets them slot things out really decently and achieve seemingly great numbers but the problem is their actual powers suck so the output isn't even close to equaling what other powersets capable of such slotting can do (and even powersets that don't have as much slotting capability)
instead of taking tough you should probably take boxing/kick as to allow for more kinetic combats to be slotted in if you're running a pure humanform PB.
also the crash really messes with the idea of 'tanking' with the PB seeing as you lose your effectiveness every 1m30s... -
Quote:with good slotting you could probably bring perma inner light + io bonus + nova form damage bonus to a constant 90% (30~+15+45) with the occasional boost to 200% every now and then.Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Whoa, there, cowboy! I'm sick of spreadsheets, not Peacebringers! I'm not abandoning the archetype or anything so dramatic as all that. The most dramatic thing I intend to do when these changes go live - and I believe they will go live as is - will be respeccing out of my two non-human forms and rocking a human form build.
....which is saddening in it's own way, since I've long been a tri-form enthusiast. There's just not enough of a reason to take the forms now.
This. AT FIRST GLANCE, that IO is the most poorly designed piece of faldercarp I've seen come down the pike since I started playing this game six years ago.
Like Zenyth says, Essence Boost + Dwarf Form puts a Peacebringer at the hit point cap, and they want to give dwarf form more Hit Points?
Nova can't cap damage quite so easily (With effective slotting, it still takes Inner light in conjunction with six tankers, defenders or masterminds on the team for an SO'd Nova to cap its damage outside of external damage buffs) but even that is ridiculously underwhelming.
the real comedy is that it'd still be less effective than every other ranged attack archetype DPS wise (and probably humanform, too). -
Quote:don't the other sets that are archetype specific give defense instead of resistance...?Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
between the brilliant "peacebringers do more AOE damage than SS" and this it's just...
what the heck are they thinking when designing anything with peacebringers?
also, fun thing to note:
at the damage cap of 300%, peacebringer human form single target damage is only 229~ DPS according to smiling joe's spreadsheet.
just.. lol
very cool to include the damage cap as part of the calculations though. -
something interesting to note with the new light form:
i'm not sure if this happens in other godmode crashes, but apparently the crash for light form will always leave you at 50% health regardless of what your current health is. meaning that if you're about to die and light form crashes, you'll be restored to 50% health (though most likely without endurance and definitely without mez protection)
however, because it always restores you to 50% health it means that an emergency dwarf shift at the end of every crash mostly negates negate the "WHOOPS I DIED" part of it as you maintain the mez protection and lets you pop ageless destiny to restore your endurance and heal yourself (and then pop light form if you're teetering on the edge of keeping it permanent)
if you're a humanform only peacebringer it might be wise to take dwarf form as your very last power if they don't change how the crash on light form functions from now to live.
it's a really strange design phenomenon, and i very much wonder if it's on purpose. -
actually that reminds me.
what the heck is the purpose of the humanform ranged aoes?
i thought they were there for peacebringers who wanted to primarily work as blasters, but thinking about the numbers and their knockback it really seems like they're just kinda useless. even if they were buffed to like, high damage it seems like the combined knockback between the two would always work against one another. i guess on a nova they make more sense as your strongest attacks don't require you to run up to them, but for humanform they seem kinda.. strange? especially in conjunction with the fact that nova form exists with better(?) versions of them.
like if you were to use the form and human versions one after another it'd require the knockback component to not be there, but that would be a strange change on the ranged attacks, not to mention the shifting times between human and nova is too large to really make that kinda viable.
what would be the general suggestion to 'fix' those powers? i can't really think of any that wouldn't make humanform end up being a better blaster than nova which is dumb. i mostly want them replaced with other powers but i can definitely see that messing with the playstyles of folks who for some reason really like to use them. -
yeaaaaaap, that's why i have absolutely no hope whatsoever of peacebringers getting buffed out of their joke status.
the reasoning behind 'more aoe damage potential than super strength' is probably factoring in the nuke, photon seekers etc. without thinking that foot stomp can be buffed significantly while also having less cooldown, and more function since it does knockdown (allowing for chained footstomps).
of course that's almost as dumb as "peacebringers does more damage than super strength" so i guess it's not really a difference either way.
like almost nothing in there really addresses actual issues with peacebringers, and as the past three or four pages of the thread have shown the insane disconnect has been really harmful to the discussion for peacebringer buffs. -
Quote:your argument is literally "oh no, what if they make peacebringers TOO strong"Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
It is wrong if they go ahead and make the buffs then later on down the line NERF it.
I'd rather they get it right the first time.
Trying to base anything on +4/x8 is NOT getting it right the first time.
seriously read that again
"what if they make peacebringers too strong?"
god forbid peacebringers are OP for whatever amount of time.
(peacebringer and OP in the same sentence? clearly this is bizzaro world)
stop saying "basing it on +4x8 is wrong!!", when that's obviously not the only vector they're going to use. however, it is a vector they have to consider because it exists in mass quantities within the game and is an accepted part of the system.
the fact that they haven't nerfed the several powerset combinations AND archetypes that can handle that level of play at various levels of enhancement should be telling enough that it's not something that the devs will nerf on a whim. hell, for a recent example look at the new fire armor: it's one of the powersets that can now do +4x8 without difficulty on the high-end AND it got a buff recently. you don't see fire armor people crying out for nerfs after the changes nor did you see people who were advocates for fire armor changes being scared that they would nerf fire armor for the trillionth time.
you're still ignoring the high-end in prayer that the devs bring about a buff if you stick to peacebringers continuing to be awful as your line of discussion and using the hyperbole of +4x8 of shut down the existence of high-end gameplay rather than attempting to say that the devs should consider all ends of gameplay in the low, standard AND high sections.
edit: like i said earlier it's really obvious they already are too, or else the current power properties for light form or inner light wouldn't have the specific recharge times and tweaks they have. unless you believe that perma inner light/light form are completely accidental and unintended by the devs.
edit 2: of course none of this really contributes to the end discussion as none of us still have any idea of what constitutes as overpowered or underpowered when it comes to actual changes. i still like the idea of -res instead of -def and various small tweaks like the ones we got in this issue. they've already stated they don't want to change the inherent so that's probably out of the picture and a lot of the ideas right now seem like they would take a lot of work which probably isn't viable for them with the current workload they got for the new content. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
If you are trying to convince the devs for buffs +4/x8 will get you no where in discussions with them. In their eyes the far fewer powersets and ATs that can do that the better.
EDIT: You're talking to people who think that buffing pulsar and turning one power's KB into KD will somehow overpower an AT.
I think you need to lower your expectations.
i keep purging that statement from my mind but yeah i got to remember that we're dealing with dudes who think peacebringers can output more damage than super strength on average
but really i still think they are very much considering high end play when designing powersets and power changes, or else inner light and light form wouldn't be designed as they are. to completely omit that level of play from our discussion would pretty clearly be harmful like flux said. it's not advocating +4x8 off SOs or whatever, but like flux said: after significant investment they should be able to operate on average at a level equal to powersets who have had the same investment on their character. whether that's +4x8 or +0x4 or whatever it's something that's clearly being considered by the devs.
honestly i've pretty much given up hope on peacebringers getting buffs that bring them up to a level where people who aren't in love with them for whatever reason want to actually play them.
and y'know. pay for them.
edit: to add something to the discussion beyond pissing matches, has anyone else had the bug with light form where if you try to activate it when it's recharging or already active it still runs it's animation? like if i have light form already up and then click the power again or use a bind or whatnot it'll still run the animation regardless of the state of the power.
it's really annoying since it makes setting lightform to a fire and forget bind like movement your dude will raise their hands up and shake their fists at the heavens -
Quote:exactly!Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
I do understand and respect that people have their own views and opinions on things like 'character tiers' or what does or should constitute performance standards. There's actually a lot of value in maintaining that the top tier shouldn't be the only standard of balance.
But there's no value, and indeed it's harmful to the game and the AT under discussion, to maintain that the top tier shouldn't be a standard of balance at all.
The game reality is what it is. +4x8 and above is a standard that exists, and is not just doable but pretty commonly so. It must be considered too. Clamping your hands over your ears and yelling "na na na na I can't heeear you" at the top of your lungs won't make all the high performance ATs go away.
i'm squarely in that heavily IO'd crowd but not in that ridiculous range. the 'billions and billions of inf' build i'm talkin about has no purples, just kinetic combats, luck of the gamblers, obliterations and other high end IOs. it's not a rare usually unachievable situation like it is with someone who's got purples everywhere but instead the high-end standard.
baseline definitely not the right word in this scenario though so ya'll are right about that haha
seriously though, lessen or remove the crash from light form. the way it functions at the high end seems contrary(?) to it's intended design in the high-end aspect of permanent light form as in the situations where it would be useful (being the primary target in a fight, stuff like that) as that it has a tendency to crash in those combat situations (well, there's rarely downtime in this game outside of wipes anyhow) and leave you dead.
to be less dramatic, all-in-all i just don't think the current buffs bring peacebringers to the level to where people outside of fanatics will want to play them, or pay the 12? dollars to unlock and play them when freedom comes out. i'm sure that's a reason they're being buffed in the first place.
edit: their rep doesn't really help this scenario at all either.
not really sure how to buff them though. someone suggested a fix of replacing the knockback with knockdown and changing the -def to -res and i think that would be pretty cool since it lets you leave most of the powers and the inherent the same, while drastically increasing the damage output in a manner that removes one of the more common complaints about pb powers (-defense not really doing much against npcs). but i specifically play in a blapper style humanform only sooo yeah. -
Quote:i love the double negative: "you either don't know how to play peacebringers or can't slot things out correctly, either way you are wrong in all cases"Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
For all I know you screwed up your build. Or just don't click with PBs.
c'mon man. you gotta understand that if they underperform at high-end levels they're also likely to underperform at standard levels too. the buffs that were given to PBs mostly shine at that high-end, where the major effects of being able to perma inner light and light form come into play, otherwise they're minor buffs for folks working with primarily SOs which isn't enough in that case since they're -minor- buffs on that end.
the idea of how a peacebringer should play should be variable as that's their schtick. but like i stated earlier it's important for peacebringers to be strong enough first to be able to branch out like that effectively, otherwise they're left in the dust by everything else. as of now they're not fulfilling that requirement. -
Quote:yeah man i agree, a fully IO'd out peacebringer (talking billions in inf on a live server) shouldn't be able to perform at the same level as another character who has had that much spent on their characterOriginally Posted by Memphis_Bill
So your definition of "Acceptably playable" is (from the situation mentioned, solo) +4 and/or x8 versus some of the harder groups in the game?
Explains a lot. That's not "Acceptably playable." That's nowhere close to a realistic baseline.
find me a powerset combination meant to do damage that's commonly played that after billions of inf spent of IOs on it that can't fight +0x8.
are you gonna contribute anything other picking out small statements to be smug with while completely misreading the context of whatever anyone posts -
Quote:try this against +4 malta, carnies, knives or circleOriginally Posted by IronAlex
oh just tested in rwz the old scrapper challenge.. and i can officially say a all human io'd out full incarnate pb can complete the old scrapper challenge..
that's lvl 54 mob with 2 lvl 54 bosses in group with no insp and no lore pets (if i took them out it would be alot easier).. and i did not get mezzed with two mentalist..
I like the change.. just tweak the crash and we got a winner..
heck, try this against +0 of any of those groups (at x8)
you are gonna be glad you took that dwarf form
and then not so glad when your light form crashes
it's kinda funny that the old scrapper challenge is the only baseline pbs can function at with full IO slotting when nowadays a scrapper would tear through them like paper. i really don't like the idea that these buffs are the only ones PBs are getting, nor do i like the idea that they bring peacebringers on par with any other archetype (because they don't).
they're not even close to enough to bringing PBs to any acceptably playable level to anyone outside of fanatics like everyone posting in this thread.