What is the Kheldian surprise?
something interesting to note with the new light form:
i'm not sure if this happens in other godmode crashes, but apparently the crash for light form will always leave you at 50% health regardless of what your current health is. meaning that if you're about to die and light form crashes, you'll be restored to 50% health (though most likely without endurance and definitely without mez protection)
however, because it always restores you to 50% health it means that an emergency dwarf shift at the end of every crash mostly negates negate the "WHOOPS I DIED" part of it as you maintain the mez protection and lets you pop ageless destiny to restore your endurance and heal yourself (and then pop light form if you're teetering on the edge of keeping it permanent)
if you're a humanform only peacebringer it might be wise to take dwarf form as your very last power if they don't change how the crash on light form functions from now to live.
it's a really strange design phenomenon, and i very much wonder if it's on purpose.
I thought the one thing unique about PB was that we get flight right at the start while other ATs have to wait till lvl 14.
Now that everyone is getting travel powers at lvl 4 and its pretty easy to hit lvl 4. I feel PB should be at least compensated with new powers to make up for that loss of uniqueness..
I will miss you City of Heroes..
![Frown](images/smilies/frown.gif)
something interesting to note with the new light form:
i'm not sure if this happens in other godmode crashes, but apparently the crash for light form will always leave you at 50% health regardless of what your current health is. meaning that if you're about to die and light form crashes, you'll be restored to 50% health (though most likely without endurance and definitely without mez protection) however, because it always restores you to 50% health it means that an emergency dwarf shift at the end of every crash mostly negates negate the "WHOOPS I DIED" part of it as you maintain the mez protection and lets you pop ageless destiny to restore your endurance and heal yourself (and then pop light form if you're teetering on the edge of keeping it permanent) if you're a humanform only peacebringer it might be wise to take dwarf form as your very last power if they don't change how the crash on light form functions from now to live. it's a really strange design phenomenon, and i very much wonder if it's on purpose. |
heh, yeah no...
So, Solar Flare is keeping Knockback, in all it's personal and teammate annoying glory, because doing otherwise would make a PB too powerfu compared to a Tank/Brute with Footstomp!!!
Am I reading this right?
I don't take the shield toggles, myself. I respeced them out back when any mez dropped all toggles because they were about as useful as the Vet reward buff pet. A PB get's a 0.5 sec stun from most mobs just looking at him, then down go the toggles.
Once they let toggles stay up when mezzed, I put them back in for about a week and then took them out again. It's so easy to cap resist, why bother with End Guzzling toggles that give little, if any, benefit? Instead, I've taken to power pools to try to fix things. Tough makes the resistances about as well as all three toggles combined, add Stealth, Combat Jumping, Maneuvers, and Weave for Defense and I think I have better survivability (although worse End Guzzling). Now, slot a Luck of the Gambler 7.5 in each of those defense sets as well as seek other Rech friendly I/O's and I have a mono-form PB with only three melee attacks, but not much interruption in the attack chain. I'll need to throw in a Sands of Mu or one of the ranged attacks from time to time to keep the assault going, but lots of power. All I had to do was spend a billion in influence and ignore half of the secondary power set in favor of pool powers. I can even be affective in groups of mobs encountered while the Shield Charges and the Ionic Judgements are cooling down.
I don't even mind chasing mobs after Solar Flare (although it annoys teammates more than I like to). I might even accept this (even though every other power in the game is KD instead) if the mobs would actually bounce off walls instead of through them.
Speaking of ITF's, was on one yesterday and Solar Flared a healer into the wall preventing us from freeing a Sibyl. PBAoE attacks do not seem to hit stuff stuck in walls like they used to, we sat around and waited. KB would not be so bad if you could use it up against the wall with the expectation that the mob would still be targetable once he got back to his feet.
Okay, great. They've managed to take away all the things I actually like about PBs and we still aren't as good as VEATs not to mention that people continue not to want us on teams because of our wonderful nemesis Quantum/Void/Cysts showing up at the worst possible times. Mission accomplished.
PBs so overpowered that we can't have the option of doing knockdown instead of knockback? Now I've heard everything.
I thought the one thing unique about PB was that we get flight right at the start while other ATs have to wait till lvl 14.
Now that everyone is getting travel powers at lvl 4 and its pretty easy to hit lvl 4. I feel PB should be at least compensated with new powers to make up for that loss of uniqueness.. |
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
There is still plenty of benefit to it.
something interesting to note with the new light form:
i'm not sure if this happens in other godmode crashes, but apparently the crash for light form will always leave you at 50% health regardless of what your current health is. meaning that if you're about to die and light form crashes, you'll be restored to 50% health (though most likely without endurance and definitely without mez protection) however, because it always restores you to 50% health it means that an emergency dwarf shift at the end of every crash mostly negates negate the "WHOOPS I DIED" part of it as you maintain the mez protection and lets you pop ageless destiny to restore your endurance and heal yourself (and then pop light form if you're teetering on the edge of keeping it permanent) if you're a humanform only peacebringer it might be wise to take dwarf form as your very last power if they don't change how the crash on light form functions from now to live. it's a really strange design phenomenon, and i very much wonder if it's on purpose. |
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I'm SHOCKED SHOCKED by that post from the Arbiter.
/sarcasm
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I should also have noted earlier that I would be more than glad to get human form more like Scrappers, at least for damage. I'd be more than willing to get some hard caps in there for resists to compensate, and/or adjustments to Cosmic Balance to even things out consistently. Which is again a big issue for Khelds and balance, kind of like Dominators and Domination before their fix. And Nova really could be more blasteriffic... I wonder if they could rework Dawn Strike to be an add-on for Nova only, so it wouldn't throw off human's balance? I actually would not mind that, if Human were fixed up as well.
Probably hoping for too much, as that would be a change to powerset order, etc., something they don't generally do. I do think Kheldians kind of need such a big adjustment, though, to even them out.
I used Proton Scatter a lot on my Human Form PB this weekend. As the only AoE that doesn't have KB, I did everything I could to make it worthwhile (procs, recharge, etc.)
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So, Solar Flare is keeping Knockback, in all it's personal and teammate annoying glory, because doing otherwise would make a PB too powerfu compared to a Tank/Brute with Footstomp!!!
Am I reading this right? |
Adding to the strange connection that statement makes, Dwarf Form is what relates to Tanks, clearly. Human form is a little confused, but it's closer to Scrappers and Stalkers than Tanks. Solar Flare should be stronger than Foot Stomp for tanks, and it really isn't at this point, especially with the KB.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
In my opinion, human form is most analogous to a Dominator Assault set. A mix of range and melee with a couple of utility thrown in for flavor.
Thankfully, I finally got my PB to 50. Going to finish the Ramiel arc just in case they ever fix these things right, but other than that, I'm done. Peacebringers are fine in teams. They usually have enough buffs from Balance to make them work quite well. But they have all this KB.
In a haze of grinding, I wasn't even trying to use Solar Flare well and wound up knocking a group of Red Caps out of a Tar Patch. And then when chasing another, I got out of range of the healer (which was OK, I healed myself). The defender in question just got a laugh out of it. I play in SG groups a lot and they know I know how to play. I was just too tired of this character to give a crap.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Don't suppose there's any chance of us getting the A. Hawk (or Any dev) to comment on this stuff again in this thread is there?
I swear I've seen less and less communication from them over past few years.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
In my opinion, human form is most analogous to a Dominator Assault set. A mix of range and melee with a couple of utility thrown in for flavor.
Thankfully, I finally got my PB to 50. Going to finish the Ramiel arc just in case they ever fix these things right, but other than that, I'm done. Peacebringers are fine in teams. They usually have enough buffs from Balance to make them work quite well. But they have all this KB. In a haze of grinding, I wasn't even trying to use Solar Flare well and wound up knocking a group of Red Caps out of a Tar Patch. And then when chasing another, I got out of range of the healer (which was OK, I healed myself). The defender in question just got a laugh out of it. I play in SG groups a lot and they know I know how to play. I was just too tired of this character to give a crap. |
And boy, even that comparison makes me sad. Doms do better damage (just on a quick comparison to Energy assault and PB attacks) and have more control, and they get access to fairly regular mez protection without a crash.
![Frown](images/smilies/frown.gif)
The Dom comparison at least is an argument for changes to Pulsar and Solar Flare we have been asking for, if not an adjustment to our Inherent and overall damage.
Don't suppose there's any chance of us getting the A. Hawk (or Any dev) to comment on this stuff again in this thread is there?
I swear I've seen less and less communication from them over past few years. |
Like I noted earlier, they are much more chatty in closed beta than they are when things open up more. Synapse was posting everywhere in Closed, for instance. I'm not sure if that points to a policy of sorts to be more quiet in Open, or something more sad, like they've made the adjustments they're going to and they leave it behind for future stuff. Hopefully that's just doom talking.
I will keep hoping and posting for more changes, however. There is merit to what we are saying.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
That's how it sounds to me as well, which we all responded to right away. And Solar Flare is analagous to Foot Stomp only outside of Rage on Tanks, and of course Brutes can count on Rage and Fury (while we cannot count on our inherent to always be boosting our damage, even on a large team). Brutes are also well known offensive juggernauts, so I really fail to see the comparison at all...
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
They do comment less than they used to, though BAB and Castle did the most of it even then. I'm thinking it's new policy more than anything, which I can kind of understand. Some people responded badly even to jokes from devs, which was maddening.
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To be perfectly honest, im surprised and a bit disappointed that we haven't gotten anything but Zwillinger's squid picture in here. I mean, there's only one thread on the discussion forum right now with more posts...and that's the stickied level bump thread.
I think that says something.
Quote:
To be perfectly honest, im surprised and a bit disappointed that we haven't gotten anything but Zwillinger's squid picture in here. I mean, there's only one thread on the discussion forum right now with more posts...and that's the stickied level bump thread. I think that says something. |
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
As opposed to the 7 year joke they've been playing on Khelds?
To be perfectly honest, im surprised and a bit disappointed that we haven't gotten anything but Zwillinger's squid picture in here. I mean, there's only one thread on the discussion forum right now with more posts...and that's the stickied level bump thread. I think that says something. |
If anyone is curious, I copied/modified the spreadsheet that reflected the new Peacebringers so that it now shows what kind of damage and survivability we would get on a team with three support archetypes and three damage archetypes.
If you're curious, it's here.
Feel free to copy it to your desktop and play with the number of team members on each page. Hell, feel free to plug your own build in (the damage and resistance numbers will cap where appropriate).
Otherwise, read on for the relevant numbers:
With three "support" characters on the team, the example build's human form damage potential looks like:
Single Target: 143
AoE: 204
Nova's is:
Single Target: 121
AoE: 232
Dwarf's is:
Single Target: 102
AoE: 166
The survivability goes up as well, but in the interest of brevity I'm just going to let the curious click the link and look for themselves.
I'm not going to bother to do a warshade counterpart this time. We all know about what it would show.
This is probably my last spreadsheet on the topic. Pretty sick of doing them, to be honest.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Agreed S_J.
Guess its gather more dust on my PB.
Couple last comments.
My suggested changes.
1. KB to KD. (one fix would be to increase the mag gain from slotting KB enhancements) (or null the gull ability to toggle between KB and KD)
2. PBs should have some team wide buffing ability. Very sad that villain EATs are wonderful teamers/party buffers with double leadership. While HEATs don't help the team much at all buff wise. (if anything make the team slower with excessive KB) While the PB has incentive to be part of a team, the team doesn't have much incentive to invite a PB.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
To me, it says they're done with Peacebringers for a while, and aren't really interested in our feedback at this point. |
what was the point of doing these changes if they didn't fix everything that was broken/needed buffing? I understand that they were being cautious and didn't want to over buff but I was under the impression that that was the entire point of beta? to test things to make sure they weren't over/underpowered and test stuff for live?
if any of those changes would have made khelds overpowered and it was agreed upon by everyone, I wouldn't have any problem with them taking stuff away in a beta setting.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
To me, it says they're done with Peacebringers for a while, and aren't really interested in our feedback at this point.
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This is probably my last spreadsheet on the topic. Pretty sick of doing them, to be honest. |
![Frown](images/smilies/frown.gif)
It would be nice if Kheldians did get more work on par with the fix to Dominators. That was a wholesale AT problem, and I think much of what bothers Kheldians is the overall design, mainly Cosmic Balance.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Well, this probably will further confuse us. Anyone see what the current special IO is for the Kheldian set? Picture is below. I just... Nova is great for more damage, but the last thing human form needs is more damage resistance. I am so confused as to who is designing these things and why.
I know they're not the final thing at this point, but it's still odd.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
between the brilliant "peacebringers do more AOE damage than SS" and this it's just...
what the heck are they thinking when designing anything with peacebringers?
also, fun thing to note:
at the damage cap of 300%, peacebringer human form single target damage is only 229~ DPS according to smiling joe's spreadsheet.
just.. lol
very cool to include the damage cap as part of the calculations though.
The interesting thing about Kheldian Grace is that going by just the name, both PBs and WSs get the same thing despite the fact that they play quite differently.
Nova is great for more damage |
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
I used Proton Scatter a lot on my Human Form PB this weekend. As the only AoE that doesn't have KB, I did everything I could to make it worthwhile (procs, recharge, etc.)
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.