I think it'd be a good idea to announce if there are any MORE visual revamps.

Eh. It changes a few of them. I would rather have the "Plain rough robes and glowie eyes in the middle of a void" for many of the lower levels, yeah - but it doesn't really "change the feel of the group" too much to me.

After all, they've been discovered and re-hidden. They've re-emerged. They've had their homes invaded by aliens. And they've found the Mu are still alive and hunting them. Plain old robes may just not cut it any more - given the thorn theme, I get a feeling of "more armor, back to war" from them.

And LOL at the "They should run the changes by us!"

See my Guides and Tutorials

I do believe the way meaning 2 came about was by repeated misuse by people who lacked the very perspective of which we speak.
</e getdownoffhighhorse>

"Crime against humanity" would be a better description of the CoT losing their robes.

It would make Virtue server happy.

Anyways.

I tend to agree with Nalrok's sentiments, although not the verbiage of those sentiments. Most of the changes made to the game since NCSoft bought City of Heroes out have been logically explained, yes even the I13 revamp.

For the most part the enemy factions typically are not revamped or updated. Off the top of my head I can only remember the Rikti receiving an artwork revamp. However, even after the revamp, there still was a clear visual link between the "new" Rikti and the old Rikti costumes.

The problem that a large number of players seem to be having with the proposed costumes; and yes after Positron's post in that long thread those costumes have now gone from "done deal" to "proposed" whether or not the art-team likes it; is that there is no visual link or reference between the new costumes and the old costumes.

Should the players have been notified about this change, say having the concept art made available to look at BEFORE the developers sunk resources into making the costumes?

For something that is this big a design break, Yes. The players should have been involved at some level.

My suspicion is that if the new costumes had been designed using references from the pre-existing costumes, there would not be such an immediate and volatile reaction to the proposed costumes.

Unfortunately, they are. All of the Paragon Studio employees are beholden to the subscribers. If the subscribers are not happy paying subscribers, Paragon Studio Employees don't get a paycheck.

The question here is: Will this change actually affect gameplay?

No. It won't. It's just a visual aesthetic.

Will this change affect subscription levels?

Probably not. I haven't seen anybody threatening to cancel their subscriptions if the proposed costume change is finalized.

What would be the fallout if the proposed design is finalized as is?

Lots of whiny and grumpy players... and this hasn't even reached the bulk of the player-base yet. We've already witnessed the sheer negative reaction from players on the forum. What's going to happen when the bulk of the game gets a load of the proposed designs?

The reality for any MMO is that the subscriber base has roots in word-of-mouth. Just look what happened to Sony Online Entertainment when they started mucking about whole-sale with their games. Does NCSoft / Paragon Studios really need that kind of negative publicity coming out about City of Heroes.

What exactly would the ramifications be of a large number of subscribers chatting about what was "Done to the Circle" and how the art team just didn't have a clue.

Now, I don't have the answers to those questions. I don't think anybody does.

What I do know is that NCSoft / Paragon Studios have some difficult questions to deal with now... and those questions are not going to go away.

Probably nothing. In my experience almost every (not all, but close) freakout subject on the boards has been met with general apathy ingame. Most of the playerbase is not so nitpicky as the forum population.


I think the costumes look good but ought to have slightly more connection to the previous versions.

Has anyone used "slap in the face" yet?

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

It's wouldn't be so bad if they where incorporating new members into their faction... with new goals and ideals... plus they would need to let go of the bowing & chanting over a floating girl... all over the place.

Personally I would hope that the entire CoT clan would form a mass walk out of the caves and take over a few office buildings... those new costumes should not be hiding in caves...

How about a Facepalm instead?

(I normally hate to be this blunt.)

I used the word I felt appropriate to use. If it's not appropriate to you, that doesn't make it my problem. I didn't start this thread to argue semantics and definitions. My word of choice remains valid as per it's given definitions and debating it's usage is not a productive use of my time.

First, thanks for the reply Zwill. Always helps to know it's being seen, you know?

That said, I can understand the differences between SDCC images and Official images conceptually, but not technically. I can't help but feel that, regardless of the medium, folks wouldn't want this revamp for the CoT. We're still seeing the costumes, regardless of the image quality and/or method of delivery.

I only started this thread to request the Devs give us a heads up if changes like this were in store for other enemy groups of the game.

There's a problem with that...concept art is just that...something designed to communicate a concept or an idea. The finished product very rarely has a strong resemblance to the concept art.

Concept art is usually best kept as something to show after the fact, as kinda a "Oh that's cool!" thing and to appreciate the amazing artistic talent of our art team. The most helpful feedback comes on the implemented and executed product.

Good to know Z, but you could have delivered 3d lifesize hologram projectors to peoples' houses to show them off, and would likely have gotten the same response. CoT = faceless, hooded minions, green glowing eyes and robes in the eyes of most players, and you can't take those iconic elements away and expect people to recognize the result as the CoT...not after 7 years of beating on them from lvl 1 thru 50.
Add stuff, sure...new mob types, new faction, Praetorian versions, go nuts...but you can't remove *all* of the core elements of the groups look...

And the last thing Paragon Marketing should want is word-of-mouth that says to new players on the eve of COH Freedom, "City of Heroes is just trying to be {800-lbs. Gorilla} in spandex". The potential customers have probably either tried and quit that game or never bothered with it in the first place.

On the other hand, word-of-mouth that says CoH has a dedicated dev team that listens to the constructive feedback from their passionate community can only do the game good.

And now we know why they were driven into hiding. It was mockery.

Yes they can. It's their IP; they can do anything they want to it, and for any reason (assuming that NCSoft doesn't mind, and I'm fairly sure that revamping the look of an old NPC group is something the home office doesn't care about). Really, there doesn't even need to be justification for said changes aside fro "We wanted to do it".

You're actually suggesting that the players - and probably just the forum users if I'm reading context correctly - are more knowledgeable about this game than the people who are actively developing it and creating the official story for it? There's entitlement, and then there's just plain arrogance.

3. Really Awesome Metal Band \m/\m/

Yea, there was a bit of the new CoT concept art in the PC Gamer article this month. I can certainly see how they got to the recently seen costumes from it, bu the concept art looked much more 'druidy' for lack of a better word. The spikes looked kind of leafish and there was a green color scheme, and while it certainly was 'muscular' and cut off just a bit below the waist it did have something that looked kind of like it might be some Tsoo Sorceror robes. So yea, similar to the concept art, but still quite different.

Explained is far different than vetted for opinion in advanced about the implementation.



No... the reaction was and remains ridiculously over the top.

• I preferred the old distinctive look.
• I agree that I wish there was more linkage between new and old - for the few poor minion images I've seen
• I would have continued to play and enjoy the game regardless
• I applaud the Devs for listening to the epic wailing regarding the change and considering tweaking it
• I in no way shape or form think they have to do anything based on the noise level associated with the change
• Nor would I think that the logical conclusion is that all such drastic changes need to be approved by the player base in advance. It could be called hubris to leap to such a conclusion

The Current Opposition has had no problem showing off concept art for upcoming costumes, hideouts and more. The difference, of course, is that when they have the forum response has been almost unilaterally "give NAO!".