Defenders will become useless?

You can pretty well read all of his posts the way your first response put it.

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If you look at how good incarnates and IOs are then you dont need defenders for their debuffs and suck *** damage when you can get more damage from everyone else.

Again as I said useless, in almost all case a troller is going to out damage them. So why even go there. The travel power thing might have been nice in the begining but we are at a point where you can get travel powers at lvl 1 its pointless, everyone gets stamina at lvl 2 so I do not see how sb is going to help much. Also for the record avs resists debuffs pretty badly so you get hardly anything especially if its +4 so thats kind of bad for all.

If you look at how good Reactive, Judgement, and Lore pet damage is then you don't need a bit of extra damage when you can get better buffs/debuffs instead.

So, there is not a kernal of value to anything I listed, they are just flat-out useless?

I really have not seen where a non-kin troller does that much more damage than a defender. I am willing to be shown the numbers, but I suspect this is a case where the proof is in your head.

I am aware that AVs do resist debuffs. But I thank you for assuming I don't know what I am talking about. I didn't know where the "enough to matter" threshold was so I mentioned that when I should not have.

I would take a travel power like IR over a temp power any day, especially temps can be shut off on certain tasks, or cannot be slotted for end reduc. But I am wrong there too.

I have learned something here today. Sorry to have wasted your time.

The only sets I can think of that maybe should not be ported between defenders and corrupters is Empathy/Pain Domination. I seem to have a vague memory that the reason for Pain Domination being made in the first place was that devs felt Empathy wasn't an appropriate set for villains. Have the devs abandoned that reasoning?

Not strictly true. Soul Transfer.

Anyhoo, with regards to this topic, I'm of the opinion that none of the ATs are obsolete. Defenders especially, as their buff/debuff ability is second to none. Sure a team of raw damage might be able to get the job done, but with a Defender on board it gets done far quicker. Hell, all-Defender teams are outright devastating to AVs and GMs. That being said so are all-anything teams.

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This is from a guy with an Earth/Emp troller in his sig??? Yeah, buddy....MAD damage potential there.

Is there any chance you can provide something to back this up? And don't give me any incarnate nonsense, you said this in regards to lower level play. All my most painful soloing experiences have been with controllers (even ones with "high" damage like illusion). On the other hand both my Rad/Sonic and Traps/AR Defenders have DESTROYED solo...


Gonna hafta agree with this:

If they haven't, allowing Corruptors and Defenders to switch sides and, with the upcoming issue 21, allowing them to START off as heroes or villains, respectively, pretty much shows that they are heading in that direction.

I think one of them mentioned, during the proliferation preview/chat/whatever, that they were looking at porting every possible set around.

Then again, we may never know unless they say it themselves. So this is mostly speculations.


As for the topic at hand; I'm guessing someone hasn't played with Defenders a lot? Or even played one, for that matter.
I mean, making a whole team, or even a league, indestructible, unstoppable or whatever you want to call it, is hardly 'useless'. Especially when there are still many ATs, or even powersets, who do not build for the softcap, let alone the resist cap (beside Warshades, I can't think of anyone who can have capped resistances). And there aren't that many powersets that can reach the damage cap. Oh, and I don't think there's a recharge cap.

Really, if you want to see how useful Defenders are, I suggest using your EYES and keeping track of some of your stats (say, defenses when playing with a FF/, resistances when playing with a Sonic/ or (soon) a Thermal/. And don't forget your damage when going around with a Kin/).

Oh, and look at those orange numbers, will you? I've started playing a Rad/Sonic and while I don't make a whole team bulletproof, -anything- melts in front of them. Why? Because I apply a ton of -res and other nasty things to whatever comes at the team.

Could I do this as a Controller? No, because they don't have Sonic Blast. Yea, the debuffs would still be good, just not of the same magnitude.
Could I do this as a Corruptor? Maybe, since they do have Sonic Blast and Radiation Emission. But have you looked at the numbers? 5% more -res on all the blasts with -res and Innervating Field has 7.5% more -res. How does this translate in practice? 7.5% more damage to any foe affected by IF and 5% more damage, per blast application, to a single target.
That red/purple boss over there? He'll take a second or two more than the minions, tops.

Cap is 500%. Base of 100%+400% enhancement/buffing.

I think you've hit on a better philosophy as well. I prefer Controllers and Doms to Defenders and Corruptors myself, but I honestly do not care what anyone brings to any content in CoH. I think the only things that really qualify for wanting some types of powers are Hami raids, Mo runs of some TFs, and the trials (kind of... most teams can do well on BAF, but it's nice to have some aggro control on Lambda for the two teams, and it's definitely nice to have area healing on Keyes). Even then, there is a lot of room for whatever ATs or powersets you want to bring.

I was thinking a very similar thing here. If we grabbed the folks asserting that blasters are dead because buffs/debuffs rule all and pure DPS is irrelevant, and brought them into the same room with the folks asserting that defs are dead because more damage rules all and buff/debuff numbers are irrelevant, and got the to shake hands, would they annihilate each other in a cataclysmic release of energy?

And if so, assuming we could find a safe place, and maybe some way to capture and use some that energy, would there be any down side to doing so? Would that be pure win/win/win or what?

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Can't wait for that! Next up, the discussion of how Barrier makes VEAT team buffs irrelevant.

Shhhh...

Stop leaking omega slot powers!

This.


And in one further unecessary answer to the OP:

Fortitude says No.

The reason I would tend as a team leader to recruit a defender over a corruptor is that the player who rolls up a defender probably actually has some interest in supporting a team. Defender is not generally the PL-ers choice.

They are more likely (especially in the mid levels before you can have everything slotted up) to have taken the powers, slotted the powers, and most importantly have a playstyle that may actually help keep the team alive and steamrolling. No guarantees, but I'll take the higher odds of getting a support-focused player if I'm looking for support on a team.

You're right Aett

Let's see GR was supposed to allow Brutes to be heroes so WHY on earth would anyone want to play a Tank or a Scrapper anymore.

Same thing with Dominators/Corruptors obviously replacing the need to have Defenders or Controllers

Now, in recent posts issue 21 will remove the need for Defenders and Blasters and during those threads PBs have been referred to as the number 1 worthless AT out there...

So let's just scrap all the hero side ATs except Warshades and play nothing BUT COV arche types.


Oh wait.. now that destiny and interface have made it possible for any AT to buff, debuff, and even heal why do we need defenders, controllers, dominators or corruptors... hmm everyone has a mini nuke now thanks to judgement and pets thanks to lore so we really don't need Masterminds either. Years ago it was confirmed that Stalkers are useless outside of PVP and now they nerfed that. Okay its official.. Lord Recluse wins we do away with everything but Crab Spiders, Bane Spiders, and Widows

Okay here is the deal.. we eliminate all the worthless ATs and just play... hmmmm PACMAN Okay now by a show of hands how many people can tell I find all the "This AT is doomed threads" a) hysterical and b) rediculous

LOL


My job when I'm solo is to kill things.

My job on a team......is still to kill things.

Yep, I'm useless

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Hard to imagine that scrappers are superfluously useless, but its true. I read it on the internets.

I disagree. My experience is that the people who don't want to support the team play ATs and characters where there is little or no expectation for them to support the team, not just play support characters poorly. Playing support poorly is not a uniquely Corruptor affliction.

This is my experience as well. I am the first to admit that I make a horrible "support" teammate. I preffer debuff sets to buff sets. Mostly because I dont want the responsibility of keeping other players buffed. Any debuffing I do helps my gameplay and incidently helps the team as well. I will pay attention and try to keep a triage beacon out and in the back for the squishies to huddle in for example, but my gameplay does not need to change drastically for teams.

The aoe buff buff has made me more comfortable playing my cold on teams just because it is easier to keep shields on everyone.