Ok, listen, this is starting to get to a critical mass
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-06-29 14:37 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
The big problem with your original post and this whole thread is that even you have acknowledged that there are problems/flaws in the stance against people having complaints.
You say that the costume and emote rewards are due to the incarnate gain in power... but then you concede that not all of them are explainable that way and that you can't disagree with those complaints (and good for you - seriously- you're a reasonable person).
You say all auras are a representation of acquired power in-game, but Boosters are a different story.
And, as for the solo and/non incarnate path... This thread may prove interesting, if the OP continues his study (and others have projected the numbers in the past elsewhere).
Everyone just needs to accept that there are some valid complaints (and some invalid ones, for sure). People aren't making up things to complain about for sport (well, there are always some, right?). They honestly feel this way, because it is honestly making their fun-time less fun.
It's not that difficult to understand and it is not that difficult to accept...
And, hopefully, everything will come out in the wash and the Development Team will continue to do their thing in making things cool on a more balanced level for the varying preferences of this game's community.
Arguing extremes is silly on either side of any disagreement.
I enjoy the trials, mainly for the varied objectives within the quick mission/event.
However, I've always enjoyed smaller teams or soloing in this game. It just gives me a more dynamic comicbook enjoyment to the action. I like every character being in the spot light, like a Fantastic Four comicbook... You see each one of them do every single one of their powers... not some large visual mess of 8+ heroes using powers left and right until health bars drop.
I do enjoy big group things from time to time as well... but more as a rare exception and not as a daily quota.
And, yeah, the term "force" is misused and not correct... But you (and everyone) can see truth in what people are saying... If you want these rewards - be they costume pieces (including non-incarnate pieces), auras, emotes or powers... you have little choice of content.
Hopefully that will change over time, as they build more content and add different types of content (small team, solo, etc.). Most everyone saw this coming before the first wave of the endgame content went live. The best reasoning I saw about it was that the powers and such had to be balanced against the big team content... and then they'd have a better grasp for balancing other types of content.
Hopefully that ends up being true. 
I'm, personally, not entirely happy with some of the decisions made about the endgame content and the incarnate stores and their developmental focus... But I understand that not everything in a game for thousands of different players is going to fully please me.
I'll voice my opinions, stay if I am still having fun (I am!) and leave if I am not.
Most importantly... everyone should try and remember that we don't need to convince each other of anything.
And, on the flip side, it's okay to listen to what people are saying without thinking How can I counter them. Try and accept that they're not loonies (no more than everyone else) and understand that there are different preferences, playstyles, opinions and definitions.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Originally Posted by Pacur
Bar code and faint, I agree, are not E-Merit worthy. Bubbles? Another case, as that is again, signifying gain in power. (Please see above for clarification).
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Hahahaha.
You almost had me with that one. Very funny. No, really, bubbles do not signify incarnate power.
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The idea that dripping slime and trailing bubbles displays a bigger/further increase in power than being on fire or emitting a dazzling glow just seems silly (in a depressing way) to me.|
Originally Posted by Pacur
At lvl 30, you get Auras ABC. After running E-Merit content, you get E-Merits, along with gaining power. This allows you to access auras XYZ
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Even more silly when you consider that the character that is obtaining the 'power' may not even be the one that displays it.
Actual power (clarification: judgement, lore, et al) being unlocked through advancing in the incarnate trials is consistent and reasonable. The fancypants glowie incarnate armour isn't particularly unreasonable either. But cosmetic rewards that are no more 'incarnate' than all the existing non-incarnate cosmetic rewards is silly at best, and a clumsy kludge to try and get people that don't want to run the trials to run the trials at worst.
(for the record I hate the costume pieces locked behind a kill-grind badge too, but they at least make a modicum of sense, at least as far as loot in an mmo ever makes sense)
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check this page out... issue 21 overview: rewards|
Originally Posted by Winterminal
*snipped for reasons known to me alone...
For this, we simply do not know. Historically, most things obtainable through in-game unlock are not achievable by an outside purchase. While things will obviously be different with the new operating model coming in i21, and while everyone would like to hope that these may be among the first items available outside the game, there is no guarantee, so people are taking what facts we have on hand: that this stuff is only achievable through Incarnate Merits. |
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| Paragon Rewards gives you credit for every single month you are a VIP player, not every three. In addition, purchasing Paragon Points for use in the Paragon Market will improve your Paragon Rewards standing. You'll be able to select from all the rewards that you to could find in the Veteran Rewards in the Paragon Rewards program and new rewards exclusive to the Paragon Rewards program, as well! In addition, you can choose which rewards you receive every time you earn a new one. |
"You sir, have never been in a hammer fight, that much is clear."
-Blast_Chamber
*yeah, I quoted myself.
No one forcing you guys too raid and there alot of lvl 50 Content in this game already, if you don't want to try trials do missions. Also Task-forces, AE, PVP and other junk in this game too do. No not everyone are doing In the trial there alot of people doing team ups, Join a SG improve those Chances and Global Channels, Also if you can't find a team go form one, it that easy to do.
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Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus
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It's possible, yes. It's also possible that the devs would make a moon base map some time in the future.|
Originally Posted by Blast_Chamber
Has anyone thought that perhaps the more mundane of the costume/aura items (anything not Incarnate Armor) might be available for purchase through the new (as yet to see first hand) Paragon Store?
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But I wouldn't rely on that possibility. Until a redname confirms the costume/aura items in the Paragon Store, or the moonbase map, I will consider them wishful thinking.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
When I'm actually in-game, I don't see people arguing over this. I don't see drama, strife, misery, or anything else I see reflected on the forums here. Minor irritation sometimes? Of course, just like it's always been. But on the whole, people are happy and having fun.
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Here these two groups meet. Here these two groups have a sense of reaching the devs with their opinions. So here you get the complaints.
I don't mind people liking trials. Heck, for all I care, they can play their trials until their eyes bleed. Please do! I mean it, trial to your heart's content! Do it! Love, man, and peace!
What I don't like is the gating and the grinding. I don't like obviously non-incarnate content (swooning emote?) being locked behind incarnate trials. I'm not particularly fond of the idea of grinding at all, for whatever the reason. Hence, grinding to unlock gated content is something I really really really don't like.
There are two arguments against this point of view. One is the "go to bed without dinner" argument: you have to do the trials to get the reward and it's your choice to do it or not. And here is the problem with that argument: it isn't a particularly good choice.
I like cake, I want to have some cake for dessert. If I am to have that cake, I have to eat my dinner. That's not the problem: the problem is that the dinner is spinach, and I hate spinach. I'm never forced to eat the spinach, but if I don't eat it I have to go to bed hungry, grumpy and angry at my parents who serve the food I hate on purpose to cater for my dieting older darling sister - who, by the way, cares nothing of the cake, because she's on a diet.
If there was any other option to spinach, even carrots, I wouldn't have a problem. But now there isn't. There are only two choices: eat the spinach and get the cake, or go to bed hungry.
But it is my choice, I give you that.
So I choose to go to bed hungry, grumpy and angry.
The second choice is the "shut up and eat it" argument. It goes like this: trials are fun and the devs like them, so you better get used to it and learn to like it as well.
Spinach is good for you, and your sister likes it, so shut up and eat it.
Yay. That makes me so much more happy. Combined with the "go to bed without dinner" argument, it seriously makes me consider to run away from home to Auntie May, who at least knows the benefit of a varied diet.
--
And there you have my beef. I don't like gated content, and I don't like grind. And the "go to bed without dinner" argument and the "shut up and eat it" argument really doesn't make me like gated content or grinds. At best it makes me angry.
Still @Shadow Kitty
"I became Archvillain before Statesman nerfed himself!"
This Just In: People who dislike end game, and despise trials, dislike i20.5. News at 11.
<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]
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/kudos|
Originally Posted by Shadow_Kitty
It might have to do with situational bias. When you trial, you often play with trial-liking people. Hence no complaints. When you don't trial, even if you play with trial-hating people, you don't trial, and hence there is nothing for the haters to complain about. Hence no complaints.
Here these two groups meet. Here these two groups have a sense of reaching the devs with their opinions. So here you get the complaints. I don't mind people liking trials. Heck, for all I care, they can play their trials until their eyes bleed. Please do! I mean it, trial to your heart's content! Do it! Love, man, and peace! What I don't like is the gating and the grinding. I don't like obviously non-incarnate content (swooning emote?) being locked behind incarnate trials. I'm not particularly fond of the idea of grinding at all, for whatever the reason. Hence, grinding to unlock gated content is something I really really really don't like. There are two arguments against this point of view. One is the "go to bed without dinner" argument: you have to do the trials to get the reward and it's your choice to do it or not. And here is the problem with that argument: it isn't a particularly good choice. I like cake, I want to have some cake for dessert. If I am to have that cake, I have to eat my dinner. That's not the problem: the problem is that the dinner is spinach, and I hate spinach. I'm never forced to eat the spinach, but if I don't eat it I have to go to bed hungry, grumpy and angry at my parents who serve the food I hate on purpose to cater for my dieting older darling sister - who, by the way, cares nothing of the cake, because she's on a diet. If there was any other option to spinach, even carrots, I wouldn't have a problem. But now there isn't. There are only two choices: eat the spinach and get the cake, or go to bed hungry. But it is my choice, I give you that. So I choose to go to bed hungry, grumpy and angry. The second choice is the "shut up and eat it" argument. It goes like this: trials are fun and the devs like them, so you better get used to it and learn to like it as well. Spinach is good for you, and your sister likes it, so shut up and eat it. Yay. That makes me so much more happy. Combined with the "go to bed without dinner" argument, it seriously makes me consider to run away from home to Auntie May, who at least knows the benefit of a varied diet. -- And there you have my beef. I don't like gated content, and I don't like grind. And the "go to bed without dinner" argument and the "shut up and eat it" argument really doesn't make me like gated content or grinds. At best it makes me angry. |
That's the best way I've seen of putting across this discussion. Bravo, this and thumbs up. My feelings exactly.
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I disagree. It goes directly to the idea that auras are an increase in power. If they are then the booster packs are basically allowing you to BUY an increase in power, something that many players have already stated they won't tolerate going forward. For those reasons alone I don't see Auras as any sort of increase in power. And like emotes should not be locked behind the Incarnate system. At least not ones that do not in any way allude to being an incarnate.|
Originally Posted by Pacur
Booster packs with auras are a different animal than having to unlock these auras with E-merits. I won't comment on the market yet, because there is little known about it at this time.
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Also please explain how bubbles and slime are an increase in Incarnate power, but being on fire isn't. By your logic nearly every aura in the game NOW should be switched to being behind the trials.
I have no issue with the Ascension Armor (which looks like it was made specifically to show Incarnancy) being exclusively a trial reward. The auras and emotes make no logical sense as being an increase in power.
Oh and technically speaking Ascension Armor isn't really showing your power increasing. Throwing a massive pyronic fireball, a shield that heals everyone at an increase rate, or allows everyone's abilities to be ready to use in extremely shorter time periods . . . yeah THAT's an increase in power and is ALSO a VISUAL one. A costume which doesn't do anything really with what has traditionally been associated with power in this game, doesn't impress me as a visual show of power. Then again cosmetics NEVER impressed me.
Or put in another way, yeah that AV may have an epic fire attack that's all flashy, but if it's doing 10 -1s to my Fire Brute, my Brute is going "ROTFLMAO, you call THAT an attack, here's an attack" *does footstomp knocking AV on his/her ****
Just saying. ;-)
With that said again the Ascension "Armor" (snicker) is fine as a visual cue of Incarnancy, and thus fine being locked behind the trials. I"ll be nice and not insult the art team by stating what I think of how the costume pieces in that set look.
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Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
This Just In: People who dislike end game, and despise trials, dislike i20.5. News at 11.
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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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For me, I look at it like this:|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I disagree. It goes directly to the idea that auras are an increase in power. If they are then the booster packs are basically allowing you to BUY an increase in power, something that many players have already stated they won't tolerate going forward. For those reasons alone I don't see Auras as any sort of increase in power. And like emotes should not be locked behind the Incarnate system. At least not ones that do not in any way allude to being an incarnate.
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Does Aura X affect my combat stats or the stats of my allies or the stats of my enemies?
If Yes: Not a cosmetic item.
If No: Cosmetic item.
The auras, the trail auras, the costume changes, the emotes and the non-incarnate chest symbols do not affect my combat ability in any way, and thus should not be gated behind incarnate rewards.
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Originally Posted by Pacur
Ok, my logic is as follows: At level thirty, heroes and villains to unlock Auras must undergo a mission, much like unlocking capes. This somehow changes them, where now they can give off these well, auras. So, lvl 30 you get aura, and later you can unlock another aura by running exclusive E-merit content, that content changes the hero/villain somehow, and they can now form this new aura. Hence, increase in power, and ability to do the aura.
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My character can have glittering fairy wings from level 1.
**** the aura is account unlockable, so characters who have NEVER and will NEVER go on an incarnate trial can use these pieces.
So why are they locked behind the Incarnate Trials again?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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As much as the last 30-40 threads it was addressing :P I blame myself for reading every thread, either with coffee in the morning, or vodka in the night.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Sooooo you're saying this thread and the Original Post are pointless?
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<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]
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Interesting way of looking at it. However the flaw in that is the Incaranate armor doens't affect your combat stats or the stats of your allies or the stats of your enemies. . .|
Originally Posted by Zortel
For me, I look at it like this:
Does Aura X affect my combat stats or the stats of my allies or the stats of my enemies? If Yes: Not a cosmetic item. If No: Cosmetic item. The auras, the trail auras, the costume changes, the emotes and the non-incarnate chest symbols do not affect my combat ability in any way, and thus should not be gated behind incarnate rewards. |
Actually that is a good argument to in fact ADD such effects to the armor.
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Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
As much as the last 30-40 threads it was addressing :P I blame myself for reading every thread, either with coffee in the morning, or vodka in the night.
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There is nothing wrong with reading these forums with some alcohol at night...
>.>
<.<
what?
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
My character can have glittering fairy wings from level 1.
**** the aura is account unlockable, so characters who have NEVER and will NEVER go on an incarnate trial can use these pieces. So why are they locked behind the Incarnate Trials again? |
They are only locked behind them because the devs wanted them to be. I'm fine with that.
But I'd prefer the folks didn't try to insult others intelligence by trying to justify that said decision wasn't completely arbitrary.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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The flaw is the exception that proves the rule! |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Interesting way of looking at it. However the flaw in that is the Incaranate armor doens't affect your combat stats or the stats of your allies or the stats of your enemies. . .
Actually that is a good argument to in fact ADD such effects to the armor. |
(And the fact that only level 50 characters are eligible for that, compared to post-character creation for the other rewards.)
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
I think this is the problem : too many try to find hidden purposes in simple complaints.
I can speak only for myself, but when I say: - "I don't like that the final fight of this trial relies on healing so much", I am NOT saying "this trial is too hard" NOR "I want this trial to be easy". "I don't like that the final fight of this trial relies on healing so much" means "I don't like that the final fight of this trial relies on healing so much". - "I would rather see it work this way", I am NOT saying "the devs should change it to be this way" NOR "the game should be designed around what I want". "I would rather see it work this way" means "I would rather see it work this way". - "This mechanic makes very specific powersets much, much more useful than others", I am NOT saying "you have to have these specific powersets to succeed" NOR "no other powerset can do the task". "This mechanic makes very specific powersets much, much more useful than others" means "this mechanic makes very specific powersets much, much more useful than others" Finally, giving negative feedback on a specific mechanic doesn't mean one feels forced to do the trial, nor that they'll run it again. If you stop assuming everyone who disagrees with you has some kind of hidden agenda, who knows, you might just find these complaints can make sense from a different perspective ; and if you still really can't see any value in that and keep getting frustrated, may I remind you that nobody is forcing you to read these forum posts? You won't even get a shiny costume or a lore pet for doing so. I know *I* am not running Keyes twenty times a day. |
Let me preface this by saying that I play a couple of hours, several days a week. I have not run the Keys Trial. I am a 40-something month veteran. And I'm an altaholic.
Remember all those requests for another ten levels? Raising the cap to 60 and beyond? What's the most common reason cited for not doing it? Right...the Devs would spend years writing the content only to have some players devour it in a month. We have the same situation here folks.
The Devs have spent the better part of a year writing end-game content because WE said we wanted it. The problem is that they can't properly pace things because they have to take into account every paying customer from the casual to the insane. They made the Trials shorter than most of the TFs because many of US complained that many of the TFs were too long. They gave us tremendous Powers that we can use outside the Trials but are hard enough to get that we actually have to work for them.
There's the problem right there....too many of us are treating it like work. "I HAVE to have my T4 Lore Power TODAY! I HAVE to unlock every costume part available THIS WEEKEND! Daddy I want an Oompahloompah NOW!"
WE are the ones creating part of this problem people. If it weren't for the fact that so many of us tear down the content road like speed-freaks the Devs MIGHT have dialed down the requirements for everything. Personally I'd have no problem with a costume set costing me a weekend's play. If I really want it, I'll do the content. But in part because of the few players chewing up 8 Trials a day the Devs have to raise the requirements on everything. Shards and Threads and Merits are the same way IMHO.
I know the horse is out of the barn and there's no way to go back. But maybe, just maybe, if we SLOW DOWN and enjoy the content once in a while the Devs will be able to worry more about WHAT rewards we're getting and not HOW FAST we get them. To me the former is the more important.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
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^This sums it up perfectly for me. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Winterterminal summed it up perfectly. I only have one thing to add: I am beyond sick of people trying to act like not enjoying this incarnate glurge is the fault of the player for being too selfish and wanting the rewards too much.
It is not selfish or gluttonous to expect the path to advancement to also be fun. The only thing stopping me from incarnating my characters at this point isn't "challenge." It is how insanely tedious this system is. And then on top of that they've thrown costumes, emotes and auras behind this wall of absolute, endless tedium. We have great developers, a good game, decent enough missions, and a friendly playerbase, but I have never hated a system in this game as much as this one. Incarnate is the new PVP. |
Instead of doing something 'City of Heroes' flavoured, it seems raids/trials have just followed the cut'n'paste formula of other MMOs for 'End Game' content, by throwing in as much cheaty-hax to make it 'challenging' instead of doing something that requires actual thoughtful strategy.
It's like they took the Sewers Trial and kept the forced +4 Boss con and above enemies and forgot to replicate the clever mechanics and required strategy.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Interesting way of looking at it. However the flaw in that is the Incaranate armor doens't affect your combat stats or the stats of your allies or the stats of your enemies. . .
Actually that is a good argument to in fact ADD such effects to the armor. |
Why are costume pieces, auras, emotes and such that have nothing whatsoever to do with Incarnates (you must be THIS awesome to fall flat on your face! olol) gated behind level 50 Incarnate content and that content exclusively?
There is no good reason. 'Because we said so' does not make it a valid reason.
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Originally Posted by Shadow_Kitty
It might have to do with situational bias. When you trial, you often play with trial-liking people. Hence no complaints. When you don't trial, even if you play with trial-hating people, you don't trial, and hence there is nothing for the haters to complain about. Hence no complaints.
Here these two groups meet. Here these two groups have a sense of reaching the devs with their opinions. So here you get the complaints. I don't mind people liking trials. Heck, for all I care, they can play their trials until their eyes bleed. Please do! I mean it, trial to your heart's content! Do it! Love, man, and peace! What I don't like is the gating and the grinding. I don't like obviously non-incarnate content (swooning emote?) being locked behind incarnate trials. I'm not particularly fond of the idea of grinding at all, for whatever the reason. Hence, grinding to unlock gated content is something I really really really don't like. There are two arguments against this point of view. One is the "go to bed without dinner" argument: you have to do the trials to get the reward and it's your choice to do it or not. And here is the problem with that argument: it isn't a particularly good choice. I like cake, I want to have some cake for dessert. If I am to have that cake, I have to eat my dinner. That's not the problem: the problem is that the dinner is spinach, and I hate spinach. I'm never forced to eat the spinach, but if I don't eat it I have to go to bed hungry, grumpy and angry at my parents who serve the food I hate on purpose to cater for my dieting older darling sister - who, by the way, cares nothing of the cake, because she's on a diet. If there was any other option to spinach, even carrots, I wouldn't have a problem. But now there isn't. There are only two choices: eat the spinach and get the cake, or go to bed hungry. But it is my choice, I give you that. So I choose to go to bed hungry, grumpy and angry. The second choice is the "shut up and eat it" argument. It goes like this: trials are fun and the devs like them, so you better get used to it and learn to like it as well. Spinach is good for you, and your sister likes it, so shut up and eat it. Yay. That makes me so much more happy. Combined with the "go to bed without dinner" argument, it seriously makes me consider to run away from home to Auntie May, who at least knows the benefit of a varied diet. -- And there you have my beef. I don't like gated content, and I don't like grind. And the "go to bed without dinner" argument and the "shut up and eat it" argument really doesn't make me like gated content or grinds. At best it makes me angry. |
This deserves quoting again.
So, you like trials? Good for you. What about those of us who don't?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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The thinking behind the people who think this type of thing just boggle my mind. Lemme clarify, I agree with the whole post, just commenting on the last bit of this part. I saw this a lot on another game's forum where there were a lot of bugs and broken gameplay. After a new patch that introduced uniforms, off-duty clothes and other fluff items, people whined and complained that instead of that "the devs" should work on fixing the broken stuff. Of course, the art team needs to focus on bug fixing! Hear that art team? Go. Hunt. Fix bugs! |
Originally Posted by Pacur
2)Some seem upset that this new trial is, well, essentially a trial, with 16 people required minimum to run it, rather than having this half issue (I think that's the right term) concentrate on other things (Honestly, I'm not sure what the ones expressing this view wanted done in particular, but I've seen everything from fixing bugs to making new costumes, so, take your pick there).
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Another part I fully agreed with was part 1 (I think?) where it was mentioned that the Keyes trial isn't just a smash-n-grab. That's a GOOD thing! We have enough content where you just go in and steamroll through and curbstomp a boss or two. Something like this requires a little in the way of strategy. Also having healing be a bigger part in a team situation in the higher levels is a nice change from just tossing around def/resist buffs and punching things til they stop twitching.
"And yes, it worries me that people know how many pipelines their graphics cards have and the bus speed of a PCIe-16x, yet don't know how to convert between bordering time zones."
[COLOR="Yellow"]Avatar by Dragonberry, coloring by Bubbawheat[/COLOR]
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Actually, your post is one of the problems. Not to single you out or anything cause you seem like a reasonable chap but seriously...|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
There's the problem right there....too many of us are treating it like work. "I HAVE to have my T4 Lore Power TODAY! I HAVE to unlock every costume part available THIS WEEKEND! Daddy I want an Oompahloompah NOW!"
WE are the ones creating part of this problem people. If it weren't for the fact that so many of us tear down the content road like speed-freaks the Devs MIGHT have dialed down the requirements for everything. Personally I'd have no problem with a costume set costing me a weekend's play. If I really want it, I'll do the content. But in part because of the few players chewing up 8 Trials a day the Devs have to raise the requirements on everything. Shards and Threads and Merits are the same way IMHO. I know the horse is out of the barn and there's no way to go back. But maybe, just maybe, if we SLOW DOWN and enjoy the content once in a while the Devs will be able to worry more about WHAT rewards we're getting and not HOW FAST we get them. To me the former is the more important. |
What we have going on here is a very serious case of Glossing over posts, picking them apart for ammunition and posters putting cliched words into others mouths and I'm forced to point it out.
NOBODY I'll repeat. NOBODY has been asking for quicker rewards. This is a classic case of reverse talk. A few of the more vocal iTrial fans make it a point to allude to this in every post they make but it's only a strawman they are using.
Point me to a single post that has someone clamoring for quicker rewards/rewards for less work. I'll wait...
When you search this topic and read the threads (with an open mind instead of coming in from a single PoV) you start to see the pattern.
What players are clamoring for.
What all this hubbub is over;
The locking of non-incarnate items behind the system.
The lack of a solo option that doesn't take literal years.
The fact that our choices just became really limited for progression.
To a lesser degree, the over abundance of Praetorian lore.
Nobody is asking to be T4 in 3 days.
Nobody is asking for the Incarnate armor to be given to us without doing the Incarnate content.
So everyone needs to start actually paying attention and stop glossing over any post that merely appears to be on the 'wrong' side of the fence. If we did there'd be alot less forum PvPing come next week.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
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What about you?|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
^
This deserves quoting again. So, you like trials? Good for you. What about those of us who don't? |
Really, what about you?
Paragon produces a product/service.
There will be people that like and people that don't.
It's called reality.
There is no MMO company on the planet that produces a product every single gamer, or even every single customer, likes all aspects of in terms of game play and content.
Like any business, there is simply no way to please everyone and it is foolish to even attempt to do so.
This incessant complaining about the product has been here from Day 1, it is not going anywhere because it is not something that can ever be fixed. Pedantic gamers can NEVER be pleased and more than OCD (or CDO if you prefer) can be 'cured'.
Does that mean as a customer you are not allowed to complain, or that you should not voice your opinion of the product? Of course not.
However, to act as if you should be catered to when an aspect of the product itself is something you don't like is, frankly, shortsighted and irrational.
If you don't like parts of the game, then perhaps you you realize that does not mean there is anything wrong with those parts, it's simply that you don't like them.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
What about you?
Really, what about you? Paragon produces a product/service. There will be people that like and people that don't. It's called reality. There is no MMO company on the planet that produces a product every single gamer, or even every single customer, likes all aspects of in terms of game play and content. Like any business, there is simply no way to please everyone and it is foolish to even attempt to do so. This incessant complaining about the product has been here from Day 1, it is not going anywhere because it is not something that can ever be fixed. Pedantic gamers can NEVER be pleased and more than OCD (or CDO if you prefer) can be 'cured'. Does that mean as a customer you are not allowed to complain, or that you should not voice your opinion of the product? Of course not. However, to act as if you should be catered to when an aspect of the product itself is something you don't like is, frankly, shortsighted and irrational. If you don't like parts of the game, then perhaps you you realize that does not mean there is anything wrong with those parts, it's simply that you don't like them. |
This is wrong, as a subscription based service, yes I and anyone else should be damn well catered for. Why should I pay my subs, for the development time to be put into something I do not like, do not want and will not ever want?
If you aren't able to at least 'try' and please your userbase, you have no business as a subscription based service.
That's one thing going Free to Play will solve for the devs.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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:O I usually take the meaning of "end-game contents" as contents you may experience once you hit the maximum level. Don't be too serious, pal. you are playing a game, not one of the days your life pursues.
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Originally Posted by Pacur
CoX is NOT becoming a "raiding game". This game just celebrated 7 years about two months ago. Of that time, only about the last year has had these incarnates show up. There is still SIX YEARS of team and solo play available to everyone right now, and once Freedom hits STILL available for everyone.
The three current trials/raids DOES NOT mean the end is near, cats and dogs living together, or human sacrifice. As I said, SIX YEARS of small team and solo development, and three larger group trials will NOT kill the game. Just because there has been, of late, a greater concentration on I guess you would call it "end game content" does not mean that the rest of the game is being ignored and thrown by the wayside. Hardly. In fact, it means the opposite, with greater depth being explored. |
Fifth account.
Global @TheGodOfGods
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In no particular order:|
Originally Posted by Pacur
To those saying this issue should not have introduced another trial, well, what else would you have preferred being done? I am serious about this, please say exactly what you would of wanted
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*New powersets (plural) now, as opposed to in six months.
*More power customization, specifically pool and epic customization.
*More weapons for existing weapon sets.
*Custom animations for existing weapon sets.
*More costume pieces and auras THAT I CAN ACCESS, for money if need be.
*That muscular skin texture for women that I almost made David promise.
*Removing redraw from weapon sets when a power can be used like BABs promised.
*Solo-capable content that is specific to the Incarnate storyline and offers us non-punitive speed of progress.
*Fixes for, underperforming powersets and specific powers, or even entire ATs.
*New power pools, new epic pools (electricity for Scrappers, pistols for Scrappers, etc).
*Something that doesn't have anything to do with Praetoria or Incarnates, be it story arcs or zones.
*Powerset proliferation, specifically Axes for Scrappers and Stalkers and Swords for Brutes.
*Better colour selection for air- and ice-related powers, better colour selection and "themes" for darkness powers, more colours for earth powers.
*New mechanics in costume design, such as non-robotic items in "robotic arms" torsos, animal muzzles as face details for normal faces, animated/moving/wobbling hair.
*Fixing inconsistencies in the editor, such as lack of shiny tights for Large boots and gloves, lack of scaly texture for Monster hands and so forth.
*Fixing at least some of the numerous bugs in the game, such as Keith Nancy's final mission where the dialogue with the "double" no longer happens.
And that's just off the top of my head.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Actually, I am. Having "special" costume parts that you have to earn by raiding should be a relic of the Bad Old Days™ by now... |
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
Nobody is asking for the Incarnate armor to be given to us without doing the Incarnate content.
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If Astrals & Empyreans were available through normal play, than I wouldn't mind as much. As it is, the Devs have tied the thing I care about most (costume options) to raiding. That's why this has become a raiding game for me.
At the rate I'm going, I should have all of the new stuff in a month or two, unless I burn out first, but I'd much rather have them as Costume Packs, or failing that... rewards for everyday play.
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
I have a sincere, not sarcastic question that requires a tiny bit of set-up.
When I first started playing the game, I head a lot of complaints about a lack of "endgame" content" beyond Hami raids. Over the years we've seen added to the game (list not in chronological order).
Mothership Raids
ITF/Lady Grey
RWZ Missions
Ouroboros for missed/much loved content
AE
Apex/Tin Mage
Tips missions
Incarnate Raids
So, for those not happy with "endgame" content, what do you feel is missing?
My Characters
If you want the rewards, then do the trials, you want the badges then enter a PvP zone, plain and simple. If you don't like the fact you need to do these things to get the rewards, then by all means don't do it.
Hell at least with the Incarnate rewards you have another path you can travel to get the rewards. When the badges were brought to PvP there was no other path for obtaining them
I mean, for crying out loud... a lot of you are whining that you "want" another way to obtain these items. Paragon Store just might be the thing. We won't know until the beta allows more/all of us to test this... but Jeezus H Krimminy... stop and breathe.
TLDR for this section: If you try, you can find people to run even the most time consuming TFs with you.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.