I am not appreciating the Trial Grind
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2011-06-17 21:55 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
It would be nice if they would make Orobouros a mini-trial zone for 50s: Do a flashback arc, and get threads with a chance for a component drop. Put the easy ones on a diminishing returns timer, maybe? Or something....
My main is a Stone tank, and near useless through 1/2 of Lambda without a Kin. Haven't even tried BAF yet. I know I'm way behind the curve, but can feel the frustration from league leaders. When I finally do the BAF I'm going to need some direction, but most leaders already assume that peeps know what they're doing and are tired of explaining.
I also have a busy RL and have to go AFK at a moment's notice. It makes participating in both teaming and timed missions very difficult. Consequently, I would appreciate solo content very much as long as it isn't ten times as grind-y as the current trials (is grindy a word?)
Ok, /minirant_off
As they develop the endgame content, the devs seem to be adding new ways to get Threads - they just have to do it in small steps to make sure it doesn't unbalance the main Trial part of the Incarnate system.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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This bares quoting again.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Once upon a time Matt Miller said that they didn't want to make "just a few trials that people would be done with in a week and ask for more again." Ignoring the fact that that's precisely what they did anyway, their solution was to make a "system" which people would want to progress through regardless of content. Well, here's the naked truth - people WILL get "done" with your content eventually. The question is whether they're done because they simply did everything there was to do, or whether they're done because they are sick to their stomachs of what you're offering. The former, while problematic, is still a positive ending. You're done, you have fun, "now what?" The latter is a bitter, angry ending born of frustration and irritation. |
'Just a few trials' is EXACTLY what we got. The Alpha slot wasn't 'just a few trials', it was everything and anything. It worked just fine.
And the someone went and broke their own design mantra.
Big freaking whoop.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Y'know how I would do it? I'd make Incarnate contacts and some kind of repeatable Incarnate tip/radio content, that way there were interesting arcs to do as well as general sludge to fill in the gaps. I call this the brick and mortar approach.
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
*A lot of words.*
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This is in strong contrast to the ITF, which has probably the highest density of tactical decisions in the game.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
I just wish the Trials weren't so tightly scripted as they are. They're pretty much "railroad tracks" as far as the scripting goes. BAF Prisoner Phase and the Lambda Collection Phase are the most glaring examples of this. Everything happens pretty much exactly the same every time.
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The BAF has two tactical decisions:
1) Fight the AVs at their spawn points vs. fight them at the helipad vs. fight them at the tennis courts.
2) Fight the escapees at their spawn points vs. fight them at the chokepoints.
The ITF has at least nine:
1) Stealth and rescue only the sybils vs. fight through.
2) Trigger the Nictus ambush vs. take the back path to Sister Solaris.
3) Stealth and only take out the cysts vs. fight through.
4) Ignore the ambushes vs. fight the ambushes vs. fight only the ambushes in your way.
5) Pull the generals to the beach vs. fight up the Valley of Lag.
6) Fight Romulus and Requiem on the platform vs. pulling them after defeating the computer vs. pulling them into the fight at the computer (with a side variation of fighting them one at a time vs. together).
7) Left path to Romulus vs. right path to Romulus vs. fly up the center and clear towers (with Imperious's behavior as a wildcard).
8) Fight Romulus at his spawn point vs. pull to the grass to avoid ambushes.
9) Pull the healing nictus away vs. focus on Romulus.
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Works for me.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Y'know how I would do it? I'd make Incarnate contacts and some kind of repeatable Incarnate tip/radio content, that way there were interesting arcs to do as well as general sludge to fill in the gaps. I call this the brick and mortar approach.
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the way im avoiding the trial grind is running the weekly tf getting notice of the well and if i dont need it converting it to 40 threads which then i can convert to xp, 40 threads is enough to unlock all of judgement and 1/3 of interface or 90% of destiny or lore in one go, 40 threads is also enough for 2 common components so it can help get tier 1/2 pretty easy once you unlock it
while this method is not free and is slower than trials, it is currently the only alternate method i forsee
(also note that i mention this because they are reducing the costs for conversions of incarnate xp by 40% in i20.5, so it will only cost 40 mil to convert that stack of 40 threads)
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If you want to progress you are, actually.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
That you're not supposed to do the trials to the exclusion of everything else?
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3) Handle the Turrets|
Originally Posted by Katie V
This is in strong contrast to the ITF, which has probably the highest density of tactical decisions in the game.
The BAF has two tactical decisions: 1) Fight the AVs at their spawn points vs. fight them at the helipad vs. fight them at the tennis courts. 2) Fight the escapees at their spawn points vs. fight them at the chokepoints. |
4) Handle Damage Balancing/Adds
Possibly can make the argument for deciding to farm the Adds/AVs during the final phase as well, but that's really not too deep imo. Personally, I feel that #4 shows a bit more of a case for not necessarily comparing based on 'points', but on depth of those decisions, especially when considering the differences between a task force and a trial.
Let's Dance!
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Not really, no |
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
If you want to progress you are, actually.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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There's also how to tackle the AVs team-wise - like one team per AV, and one for the reinforcements, or trusting everyone to use their inititive to keep the damage balanced, and just let the minions come to the AVs.
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Originally Posted by reiella
3) Handle the Turrets
4) Handle Damage Balancing/Adds Possibly can make the argument for deciding to farm the Adds/AVs during the final phase as well, but that's really not too deep imo. Personally, I feel that #4 shows a bit more of a case for not necessarily comparing based on 'points', but on depth of those decisions, especially when considering the differences between a task force and a trial. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
For those who love grinding trials:
I can unlock my Alpha doing one arc, yes repeatable for every character - like the Midnighters, Roy Cooling, etc.
Then I could run ANYTHING and get shards. I could run a weekly TF for a merit boost and a Notice.
Then I could do exactly what I wanted and progress.
Then I20 and we get not only new content we get a new game. Instead of having 7 years of content to use, I get 2 trials. Then 3 trials soon - then 4 and then 5 all instead of using the content people know and love to play for the last 7 years.
It is absolute insanity for you to believe that anyone can generate content faster than the players can finish it. So I decided to hell with it and ignore the entire thing and do exactly what I used to do - at 50 I respec keep the best IO's and either give them away, pass them on or sell them and pass the cash to an Alt and start over deleting the 50.
I am waiting for the Devs to figure it out.
The players can finish it faster than you can make it. So stop the insanity and open the existing content like you did with the Alpha. Until then I have absolutely no need for a 50.
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You still can - Shards can be converted into Threads, and so can Notices of the Well - plus the TMTF and ATF now drop Threads at the end - the devs are adding the non-Trial stuff a little bit at a time to make sure they don't unbalance the main Trial part of the Incarnate system.
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Then I could run ANYTHING and get shards. I could run a weekly TF for a merit boost and a Notice.
Then I could do exactly what I wanted and progress. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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They also seemed to be caught off-guard by the push for solo Incarnate content and fully admitted it was a ways off.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Positron said in one of the U Stream casts a while ago that he's aware a solo/small team progression method is something the player base wants. and he said it was something potentially on the horizon.
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| They're also going to keep adding more trials, it only feels like a grind right now because it's a new system being introduced and all the content hasn't been developed yet. |
I've started making my own fun by betting on exactly when I'm going to crash in a given Trial. Because this long after launch I still crash, guaranteed, at least once per two trials. If not for that, I might have at least a slightly sunnier disposition about the trials and would be willing to approach them more often.
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| I think it's understandable that these things take time and I'm sure the dev team is working as fast as they can to give us more options... |
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
This game is highly repetitive. I stopped playing a bit ago and I'm waiting for 20.5. Any part of the game is pretty much as repetitive in its own way. Constant use of the same few maps; radio/paper missions are often almost exactly the same except for some dialogue/background; much of the older content is the same.
After 7 years you'd think the devs would learn Well, I think they may have a bit by putting out more trials/raids. If there was more variety and options to 'level' your 50 it'd be cool (I can't believe Apex and Tin Mage TF don't reward a reduced amount of iXP). Anyway, things are a bit slow coming for this game and that may cost them as many of my SG mates are on breaks again.
Anyway, I agree, it is a grind and this game often feels like a grind. Take a break or quit is the obvious solution. The devs don't seem to listen to us too much
I gave up.. after doing 42 trials in a row across maybe 2-3 toons and getting nothing but uncommons I said screw it.. forget tier 4.. I cant even get a RARE to get to a tier 3.. and I am supposed to want to do this across 30+ level 50's ??
I dont even want all of them to have ALL the powers.. just want makes sense based on each individual character and I dont even want to do THAT.
I HATE the whole.. Ive gotta unlock this to unlock that aspect. I have some characters that I dont want judgement on..but I would like Lore... so I have to SUFFER throgh unlocking judgement and THEN suffer through unlocking the LORE ????!!!!!!!!!!
I find that Lambda tend to run less often than BAF's so I struggle to even get an Interface unlocked..
Now I have some toons that I had some lucj with when the system first dropped who did get some rares.. ( still no very rares.. )
And I dont care what anyone says.. the system is definitely skewed to AT... by Dominators have done MUCH MUCH MUCH better than my Tanks.. My tanks have gotten absolute CRAP...
I am going on record as saying this system sucks WORSE than ED did... YES IMO its that friggin bad...
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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I don't think the devs EVER intended for us to get all of our 50s fully incarnated.| ... and I am supposed to want to do this across 30+ level 50's |
My main (you know, <--- that guy over there) has T4, T4, T3x3. I *want* to incarnate out my warshade for no other reason but that I know he'll be a lot more fun with permanent mez protection.
But getting him there won't be fun. I know it won't be fun. I've already done it on one character and it was fun for a bit but stopped being so. I can't bring myself to do it. I've been playing lowbies instead.
Be well, people of CoH.
The answer is simple. Don't grind them. 
There are other (obviously more slower) ways to work on getting the incarnate abilities and not just burning yourself out, on trials.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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No! I need my 30+ 50's to be t4ed out within 2-3 months of release >:O rawr!
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Originally Posted by BrandX
The answer is simple. Don't grind them.
There are other (obviously more slower) ways to work on getting the incarnate abilities and not just burning yourself out, on trials. |
<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]
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So don't grind trials, grind shards instead?
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Originally Posted by BrandX
The answer is simple. Don't grind them.
There are other (obviously more slower) ways to work on getting the incarnate abilities and not just burning yourself out, on trials. |
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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Just play whatever you enjoy playing, and the rewards will come |
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
So don't grind trials, grind shards instead?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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There will be grinding. There's no getting around that. This entire game from level 1 to level 50 T4x5 is nothing but grinding. Grinding minions and liets and bosses into a fine paste. Hundreds of thousands of them.|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
So don't grind trials, grind shards instead?
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But if I'm going to grind through missions, I don't want the added nuisance of teaming dumped on top of it.
We'll get more ways to get our threads. I hope that the entire shard business is tossed and threads take their place. It was a very bad decision to leave the shard junk in the game at all. The conversion rates are beyond idiotic.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Sure you can convert. And burn billions of inf whilst doing so.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You still can - Shards can be converted into Threads, and so can Notices of the Well - plus the TMTF and ATF now drop Threads at the end - the devs are adding the non-Trial stuff a little bit at a time to make sure they don't unbalance the main Trial part of the Incarnate system.
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NO
THANK
YOU
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So exactly how am I supposed to get this stuff without doing the same content over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again ??
Dont grind it ???!!!!! You have another way to get it?? A magic wand perhaps ??? I mean really.. its a grind no matter HOW you slice it.. the system BLOWS period.. There are many in game and on the forums who do not like the system.. they preferred what we had already.. not having to grind out more xp which is used THEN grind your way into just unlocking the friggin slot.. oh yeah and if you dont want the prior slot but want the latter one.. can you CHOOSE.... NOPE just shut up and grind out the xp for both...
THEN go grind out some influence so you can convert, downgrade and sidegrade and make crap.. for 100 million or 400 million ????!!!!!!!!!
Dont have or want to spend the influence.. WELL just do the same things over and over and over and over and get CRAPPY results which more than often yield crap you DONT want or need...
OR grind a little leess and get 8-30 emp merits...
You can slice it up any way you want to... Its a grind.... and it SUCKS.. way to go CoH you just made yourself like every other MMO and are doing a good job of alienating some loyal customers..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork