Today's Dev Chat Highlights
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-05-26 19:42 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I'm going to guess that the voucher thing is for the "Aura/Cape at Level 1" type of things, rather than the costume unlocks.
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Originally Posted by reiella
Until I see something that states to the contrary, going to assume VK is right
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Yes, that's true for the Ascension Armor, but everything else the official announcements and you devs have been saying seem to indicate that is *not* true for the non-Ascension Armor pieces.
There is talk of a character *claiming* a *voucher* through *email*. Isn't that for all the other costume pieces? Isn't that also the case for recipes bought with Incarnate Merits? If these are account-wide awards, then why bother with a voucher system? Please be very clear about this: If I buy the Ice Trail Aura with Incarnate Merits, are you saying that the Ice Trail Aura will be unlocked on all toons from creation and level 1 and onwards? |
I would very much like the answer to this.
If it's all a case of misunderstanding and I don't have to buy the aura's each time I want to use them on a different character, I'll resub.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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It's awful tempting for me, too. The non-Incarnate endgame of running costume contests in AP isn't worth $15/month. At least WoW raised the level cap so you had an alternative to make progress without raiding. CoH has...player-created thumbtwiddling.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Alternatively I can give my money to a different company that doesn't feel the need to ape WoW's end game.
Which I shall do. |
At this point, I'd probably dump MMOs altogether.
On Liberty:
Aardwolf - level 50 claws/invulnerability scrapper
Anchor - level 50 level gravity/forcefield controller
Dr. Dusk - level 50 mercenaries/dark miasma mastermind
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They can take my flying robotic death squad from me only when they shut the game down.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Some Masterminds do take it to move their army of morons around without aggroing everything in a 5-mile radius. It's certainly not common, but it is annoying to suddenly be caught in it.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Indeed inquiring minds would like to know. |
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Please be very clear about this: If I buy the Ice Trail Aura with Incarnate Merits, are you saying that the Ice Trail Aura will be unlocked on all toons from creation and level 1 and onwards?
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A real showstopper!
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Yes, please answer this. The answer's been unclear before.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Please be very clear about this: If I buy the Ice Trail Aura with Incarnate Merits, are you saying that the Ice Trail Aura will be unlocked on all toons from creation and level 1 and onwards?
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It has certainly been discussed ever since the doppleganger tech was introduced. I suspect that it would take time to implement that would be better spent on something that affects more than one powerset for one archtype.|
Originally Posted by Teeko
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd another thing!
Am I the only that has thought up the idea that Illusion Control's Phantom Army should have the option of creating duplicates of yourself (sans your powers, that would be too powerful) instead of of some random generic NPC's? It is illusion afterall... "Here Bad guys! Which one is the real me? Mwhahaha!" They can do it, just check out the new Posi TF! |
It is probably possible, but may not be an effective use of Developer time. It would be fun, though. I would love it on my, er, 4 Illusion Controllers at level 50.
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Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Wasn't that the original concept behind PA, but they didn't have the tech back then?
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
It has certainly been discussed ever since the doppleganger tech was introduced. I suspect that it would take time to implement that would be better spent on something that affects more than one powerset for one archtype.
It is probably possible, but may not be an effective use of Developer time. It would be fun, though. I would love it on my, er, 4 Illusion Controllers at level 50. |
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From what i understand according to the info page (copied below) the vouchers are only to unlock all auras or capes or other things on alts. I think unlocking the specific costume parts are all account wide, with the Ascension Armor being limited to lvl 50s.
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Account Rewards: Astral Christy and Empyrean Michael offer vouchers, new account-bound rewards. Vouchers cannot be traded, but they can be accessed in your global mail. These vouchers include Aura, Cape, Alpha Slot, Incarnate Shard, and Incarnate Thread Vouchers. Aura and Cape Vouchers let you to unlock auras and capes for your alts, even if they're only Level 1. |
Liberty
My 50s:
Hero: Armor Assassin (scrapper), Cross Dresser (scrapper), Surly Seaman (blaster), Defensive End (Tank), Rad Rhino (Cont)
Villain: Beast Infection (Corr), Sweet Zombie Jesus (MM), Milk Weasel (Stalker), Orgullo (MM), Agent Eris (Crab)
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Let's just hypothetically say that the developers changed their minds to suit Anchor. "Run one BAF, and everything will be unlocked across your account for all characters!" they say. So tonight, you run a BAF, and *poof!* now you have everything. Costumes, Incarnate slots, the works.|
Originally Posted by Anchor
It's awful tempting for me, too. The non-Incarnate endgame of running costume contests in AP isn't worth $15/month. At least WoW raised the level cap so you had an alternative to make progress without raiding. CoH has...player-created thumbtwiddling.
At this point, I'd probably dump MMOs altogether. |
Okay, what the hell are you going to do now? Run umpteen WSTs that were trivially easy before, except now, you're essentially in iddqd mode, face zero chance of defeat, and don't even have to try? How many Incarnate Armor clad characters will you create before that gets boring?
Here's a cool little experiment to try. Get a buddy who will humor you for a while and who will let you win at tic-tac-toe every game. Play it until you get bored and don't want to any more. How long did that take? Would you pay $15 a month to do that? Because people who complain about how "grindy" Incarnate stuff is should be careful what they wish for. Without long-term rewards, this game would quickly achieve major suckage status, and much as you'd like to believe otherwise, it's physically impossible to churn out new content as fast as you'd like to consume it.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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ice armor scrappers.
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Originally Posted by bass_ackwards
didn't they say on the stream that it was redeemed by voucher? Sorry, i was more focused on ice armor for scrappers i didn't really keep track of the rest of the stuff.
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False dichotomy. One can argue for difficult objectives without necessarily settling for an MMO that voluntarily reduces 7 years of content to two encounters.
| Here's a cool little experiment to try. Get a buddy who will humor you for a while and who will let you win at tic-tac-toe every game. Play it until you get bored and don't want to any more. How long did that take? Would you pay $15 a month to do that? Because people who complain about how "grindy" Incarnate stuff is should be careful what they wish for. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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This is a very odd question. How many mask clad characters can you create before that gets boring? How many characters with retro belts can you make before that gets boring? So far, hasn't got boring in 7 years.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
How many Incarnate Armor clad characters will you create before that gets boring?
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The major selling point of costume pieces is that... they are p[ieces. Making a bunch of characters with just the full Incarnate set might get dull after a while (though having a set of multicoloured Mighty Morphin' Inarnate Rangers might be quite fun). But multiply that by how many costumes you could make that look good with the Incarnate shoulder pieces? Or Incarnate boots? Or incarnate gloves? or any of the other pieces?
Always remember, we were Heroes.
Based on the Overview page, and Second Measure's clarification earlier in this thread, here is what is going on.
- All itemized rewards (emotes, costume change emotes, Ascension Armor, Auras, Capes, etc.) are unlocked account-wide.
- Though they are unlocked account-wide, they are still gated behind the normal level requirements.
- Ascension armor will be unlocked, upon purchase, for all characters at level 50.
- The Astral/Empyrean Merit Reward capes will be available, upon purchase, to all characters level 20 and above who have completed the mission required to unlock capes.
- The Astral/Empyrean Merit Reward auras will be available, upon purchase, to all characters level 30 and above who have completed the mission required to unlock auras.
- The Cape Vouchers and Aura Vouchers, also purchasable with Astral/Empyrean Merits, are transferable via in-game email to alts. Upon using the voucher (however that occurs), that specific alt will have access to all capes and/or auras (depending on which vouchers were used) at ANY level that they would normally have only had access to at level 20 or 30, after completing the required mission. Essentially, this option is a way to make all capes and auras available to veteran low level alts (something that has been requested numerous times) while still requiring completely new players to complete the "rites of passage" in order to get capes and auras.
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I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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Unless you are paying for my sub, I'm not sure where you get off you telling me or anyone else how to play the game and what we should find to be fun. You don't even pay enough attention to what other people post to know what "suits Anchor" or what I've wished for. I know what suits TonyV, though: Running the same missions on the same map against the same mobs with the same toon and the same powers over and over and over again and over again for shinies. And he doesn't want anyone to have those shinies who didn't do the same thing he did. It's a super attitude for a dwindling clubhouse of a video game. Given that I probably wouldn't team with someone with your attitude unless I was being forced, I can see how the Incarnate System has an appeal for you.|
Originally Posted by TonyV Let's just hypothetically say that the developers changed their minds to suit Anchor. "Run one BAF, and everything will be unlocked across your account for all characters!" they say. So tonight, you run a BAF, and *poof!* now you have everything. Costumes, Incarnate slots, the works. Okay, what the hell are you going to do now? Run umpteen WSTs that were trivially easy before, except now, you're essentially in iddqd mode, face zero chance of defeat, and don't even have to try? How many Incarnate Armor clad characters will you create before that gets boring? Here's a cool little experiment to try. Get a buddy who will humor you for a while and who will let you win at tic-tac-toe every game. Play it until you get bored and don't want to any more. How long did that take? Would you pay $15 a month to do that? Because people who complain about how "grindy" Incarnate stuff is should be careful what they wish for. Without long-term rewards, this game would quickly achieve major suckage status, and much as you'd like to believe otherwise, it's physically impossible to churn out new content as fast as you'd like to consume it. |
And I haven't asked them to churn out anything. In fact, nobody in any of the threads on this subject have asked them to churn out anything. Nobody has asked for anything to be handed to them without effort, either. Moreover, nobody has asked for the Incarnate System to be dismantled to make way for something else because they seem to acknowledge that some people do like it while they themselves do not. Maybe the fact the current endgame system ignores them is because they didn't speak up enough before because they thought something was in the pipe for them. Now, they're not so sure.
When all of the announced new content since November is being funneled into either the Incarnate System or paid booster packs, people are absolutely entitled to wonder what is in it for them. Paragon has to earn their business, too. Development is clearly happening, but the focus is not on the things that were the reason they stuck by CoH for years. Why continue to invest in the game? Here's a hint: It's not for the opportunity to run costume contests in Atlas Park. People don't play a game for seven years for that. They play it for new powersets, costume pieces, archetypes, missions, zones, mob groups, new stories, zone revamps -- that all-inclusive content that players, old and new, can enjoy on their own terms and that CoH has provided largely without restrictions. We expect CoH to give us the same standard of what it gave us for the last seven years and that now makes us sound entitled? Or our years-old playstyle is now "weird?" Or that we're in a "tiny minority" for not being pleased with the state of affairs? Shame on Paragon Studios for setting such a high standard and shame on us for holding them to it.
If the endgame exists only to support TonyV running BAF 40 times on the same toon, TonyV will be paying to keep the lights on himself.
On Liberty:
Aardwolf - level 50 claws/invulnerability scrapper
Anchor - level 50 level gravity/forcefield controller
Dr. Dusk - level 50 mercenaries/dark miasma mastermind
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That gives me a crazy idea: a Mission Architect contest to make an incarnate-themed arc. The winner's arc gets a special third option (in addition to tickets or standard drops) - their arc gets the third option to reward a once-per-18-hours Empyrean Merit! (Or an Astral if you're in the 18 hour window.) I don't think that'd be huge, as long as the winning arc is partially rated on difficulty (or complexity).|
Originally Posted by TonyV
and much as you'd like to believe otherwise, it's physically impossible to churn out new content as fast as you'd like to consume it.
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The contest could periodically be resurrected to add variety, with the MA-origin Empy being time-restricted (to prevent too-rapid Empyrean proliferation and AE grinding). That is to say, getting an Empy from any incarnate-approved MA arc would count towards the 18-hour limit.
Currently there are two (soon three) ways to get Empyrean Merits every 18 hours. But every new iTrial is going to make it easier to work towards Very Rares (and the upcoming vendors), unless a new category is added for components for the as-yet-unavailable slots (or if they're counting on the opportunity cost of deciding between the vendors and component crafting). I'm sure they've got a plan already, of course. Maybe as time goes by the current slots are supposed to become easier to purple-out because there will be new long-term goals. Regardless, I think my suggestion would have minimal impact on their plans, reward creative members of the community, and provide the community with more flexible incarnate content. (But I've been known to overlook pitfalls in the past.)
For example, if you unlock the Frost Path Aura, you can unlock it on all the characters you choose.
You purchase the item from a vendor and you get something that is delivered via the gleemail interface called a Certificate, and it looks just like a gleemail but is labeled "Certificate". The item is attached, and you can claim it on as many characters as you wish. The Certificate doesn't expire, unlike other mails. You can delete the Certificate on any character after you claim it and not before, but the certificate will still show up for other characters, even characters you create after you have made the purchase.
The auras you purchase via Incarnate Merits are available to be applied to a character even if you haven't unlocked general auras on that character yet, much like the auras from Booster Packs, even if you are level 1.
There are also items called Vouchers that work in a similar way, but they can be used only once by any one character on your account. Vouchers use the same interface, but once they are claimed on one character, they are no longer available to any other character. One example is that for 10 Astral Merits you can buy a Voucher that will let you unlock capes or auras early on any one character. Log into the character to claim the voucher. (Current prices are Beta, as a reminder.)
(Just to be sure, I went on our internal server and tested all of this to be sure before posting since I knew I wouldn't hear the end of it if I was inaccurate!!)
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Thank you I'll resub. The way it was worded in the live chat made it seem like a much more massive grind than it was.
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Originally Posted by Second Measure
For example, if you unlock the Frost Path Aura, you can unlock it on all the characters you choose.
You purchase the item from a vendor and you get something that is delivered via the gleemail interface called a Certificate, and it looks just like a gleemail but is labeled "Certificate". The item is attached, and you can claim it on as many characters as you wish. The Certificate doesn't expire, unlike other mails. You can delete the Certificate on any character after you claim it and not before, but the certificate will still show up for other characters, even characters you create after you have made the purchase. The auras you purchase via Incarnate Merits are available to be applied to a character even if you haven't unlocked general auras on that character yet, much like the auras from Booster Packs, even if you are level 1. There are also items called Vouchers that work in a similar way, but they can be used only once by any one character on your account. Vouchers use the same interface, but once they are claimed on one character, they are no longer available to any other character. One example is that for 10 Astral Merits you can buy a Voucher that will let you unlock capes or auras early on any one character. Log into the character to claim the voucher. (Just to be sure, I went on our internal server and tested all of this to be sure before posting since I knew I wouldn't hear the end of it if I was inaccurate!!) |
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Thanks for clarifying, and that certainly is better than having to buy them individually.|
Originally Posted by Second Measure
For example, if you unlock the Frost Path Aura, you can unlock it on all the characters you choose.
You purchase the item from a vendor and you get something that is delivered via the gleemail interface called a Certificate, and it looks just like a gleemail but is labeled "Certificate". The item is attached, and you can claim it on as many characters as you wish. The Certificate doesn't expire, unlike other mails. You can delete the Certificate on any character after you claim it and not before, but the certificate will still show up for other characters, even characters you create after you have made the purchase. The auras you purchase via Incarnate Merits are available to be applied to a character even if you haven't unlocked general auras on that character yet, much like the auras from Booster Packs, even if you are level 1. There are also items called Vouchers that work in a similar way, but they can be used only once by any one character on your account. Vouchers use the same interface, but once they are claimed on one character, they are no longer available to any other character. One example is that for 10 Astral Merits you can buy a Voucher that will let you unlock capes or auras early on any one character. Log into the character to claim the voucher. (Just to be sure, I went on our internal server and tested all of this to be sure before posting since I knew I wouldn't hear the end of it if I was inaccurate!!) |
However, the certificate thing does seem an odd way of doing it. Why not just make them true account unlockables (like the booster pack items), so that they can be accessed in the inital character creator? Instead of having to make a costume, log in, claim the certificates you want, then go to a tailor to apply them.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
Thanks for clarifying, and that certainly is better than having to buy them individually.
However, the certificate thing does seem an odd way of doing it. Why not just make them true account unlockables (like the booster pack items), so that they can be accessed in the inital character creator? Instead of having to make a costume, log in, claim the certificates you want, then go to a tailor to apply them. |
From what I understand the certificats let you use all capes/auras from when ever you use the certificate on a character.
So rather than just having booster pack stuff, you'd have access to the full cape/aura stuff even at level 1 assuming you waddle over to a cossie NPC.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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That's the voucher.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
From what I understand the certificats let you use all capes/auras from when ever you use the certificate on a character.
So rather than just having booster pack stuff, you'd have access to the full cape/aura stuff even at level 1 assuming you waddle over to a cossie NPC. |
The certificate thing might be a side effect of the fact that currently, there is no way for an /ingame/ unlock to affect the entire account.
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This does beg the question if these vouchers are going to count against our gleemail limit. |
Originally Posted by Second Measure
For example, if you unlock the Frost Path Aura, you can unlock it on all the characters you choose.
You purchase the item from a vendor and you get something that is delivered via the gleemail interface called a Certificate, and it looks just like a gleemail but is labeled "Certificate". The item is attached, and you can claim it on as many characters as you wish. The Certificate doesn't expire, unlike other mails. You can delete the Certificate on any character after you claim it and not before, but the certificate will still show up for other characters, even characters you create after you have made the purchase. The auras you purchase via Incarnate Merits are available to be applied to a character even if you haven't unlocked general auras on that character yet, much like the auras from Booster Packs, even if you are level 1. There are also items called Vouchers that work in a similar way, but they can be used only once by any one character on your account. Vouchers use the same interface, but once they are claimed on one character, they are no longer available to any other character. One example is that for 10 Astral Merits you can buy a Voucher that will let you unlock capes or auras early on any one character. Log into the character to claim the voucher. (Current prices are Beta, as a reminder.) (Just to be sure, I went on our internal server and tested all of this to be sure before posting since I knew I wouldn't hear the end of it if I was inaccurate!!) |
With enough account wide certificates I can envision a scenario where you may need to go in and claim pending gleemails before creating a new toon to create space for the Certificate gleemails to poplulate in your inbox.
If they are going to count against the limit then a bump up in size of the inbox might be inorder.
Global: @Kelig
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Short of AE Badges, which I imagine just cheat by doing a check on login.
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
That's the voucher.
The certificate thing might be a side effect of the fact that currently, there is no way for an /ingame/ unlock to affect the entire account. |
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That must be the shortest ragequit in history |
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Thank you I'll resub.
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There is talk of a character *claiming* a *voucher* through *email*. Isn't that for all the other costume pieces? Isn't that also the case for recipes bought with Incarnate Merits? If these are account-wide awards, then why bother with a voucher system?
Please be very clear about this: If I buy the Ice Trail Aura with Incarnate Merits, are you saying that the Ice Trail Aura will be unlocked on all toons from creation and level 1 and onwards?
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