Today's Dev Chat Highlights

There is no shell game. Issue 19, the beginning of the Incarnate push - not all of the actual mechanics and trials, but the lore, the Ramiel arc, the first related task forces, the first related new mobs, the first incarnate power slots and loot for crafting enhancements for those slots - came out in November. This is where the push began. The focus continued in Issue 20 when the two trials went live with the remainder of the incarnate slots and other tweaks, and is going to keep going through 20.5 with another trial, more rewards (grumble, grumble), and grouping tweaks for trials. The content before that was Going Rogue.

I'm not sure why it's hard to understand how Issue 19 could be seen as the beginning of the Incarnate focus of the game. You seemed to get this point in your previous post when you tried to point out all of the non-Incarnate stuff that dropped around GR. If you wish to divide the push into phases of release, that's your call. I don't tie the Incarnate push to the trials going live because, to me (and I'm going to guess a few other people), it began last year.

See above.

And did I say when and what things became "compulsory?"

I have said in this thread that I don't like endgame systems in general and that the Incarnate System was completely ignorable prior to last week when I believe the rewards tied to the system began to outpace similar, non-gated "free" content released since last fall. Three auras and no costume sets is demonstrably, provably less than seven auras and 1 costume set. Might have been why you never heard of me before last week.

What sticks out at me is that we need to whack Black Pebble for being a PR bottleneck.

Putting aside the fact that this letter you're quoting was released after I made my post, the only alarmism I've had for Issue 21 is that it will come pretty late in the year. Nothing in the press release changes that belief. Nothing in the press release is new info, either, but at least they're reaching out. Clearly, someone is reading player concerns (maybe not mine), and might even think they're valid, and isn't just trying to dismiss everything out of hand.

And if you don't do it, Mr. Webster, your level 50s stagnate for A COUPLE MORE YEARS (which I can pretty much live with as the content doesn't require you to power up - yet), if you don't team the progress will be incredibly slow and expensive (again, I can live without it), and non-participation *now* starts to lock you out of more free character creation options than you've seen this year (which I think is an unfortunate decision on Paragon's part and hope does not continue in future development).

Can't say that I see how anything in this whole argument should cheese you off, frankly. Didn't you get what you wanted? Is your enjoyment diminished by less than universal love for the Incarnate System?

So, long-suffering players holding out in the delusional hope of an endgame system are more entitled now than gamers who weren't? Did those stubborn endgame cravers deprive themselves of all other new gameplay experiences that have been added to CoH in the intervening years? Surely they had to level up through some kind of content so they'd be ready for the endgame whenever, wherever it was going to arrive. I hope they tried not to enjoy it.

And you might not be begrudging (after all, how can you resent people for the content they don't have?), but, boy, are some of you guys really defensive about a little bit of code. You yourself bopped in here to drop insinuations about me making demands for immediate satisfaction, when I've done no such thing, and that I think changing *anything* is a bad thing, which I've never said. I've also got TonyV alternating between being patronizing and coming up with vivid mental pictures of what kind of power leveler I must be to not like the built-in grind of the endgame system. It's like after seven years of CoH, I've suddenly become impatient.

So, yes, it's all been sunshine and puppies since I opened my mouth. Is it any wonder I don't want a system that forces me to share a map with some of you in order to make my character a wee bit more powerful?

I don't see how calmly asking to be given info about future development is throwing a fit.

Once upon a time, somebody had to ask for an endgame system, right? Was that selfish? How about PVP? Or the flashback/Ouroboros system to visit content you missed? Or wolf head costume pieces? There's a lot of content in this game that was driven by player requests.

Questioning the future of the game based on its present direction is not an accusation of an unforgivable crime. Expressing concerns based on experience with games that took a similar route is not an accusation of an unforgivable crime. Asking for reassurance and info on future content is not an accusation of an unforgivable crime.

I find your comment above really goofy - and begrudging (which you said wasn't happening just a little bit ago). It assumes that I've been "catered to" by the gameplay as opposed to "not been hindered by." It assumes that I'm in love with everything that's happened in the game the last seven years even though it includes things like more TFs I'll never run. It also assumes that I've always received what I wanted, despite things like the gutting of the scrapper invulnerability set back in the day that had me put my poor scrapper on the shelf for almost two years out of disgust. Finally, it assumes that I haven't been waiting just as long as, if not longer than, some of the endgamers for something to do with my 50s.

You're 0-4.

I *am* dealing with it, probably in the exact same way those poor endgamers did many years ago when they said "hey, what about us?" I'm just not going to sit around and wait for six more years in a game that doesn't have six years left in it. You deal with my dealing with it.

And I guess I'm not alone. LOOK! The devs started to throw us some bones yesterday. We've got the reassuring producer's letter up on the game website and Positron did jump into another thread that was heading in a similar direction to confirm new powerset development. Good news everyone can use.

For the record, it appears your definition is skewed by who you think actually deserves something and who does not, Mr. Webster.

Anyhoo, I'm tired of carrying on three conversations at once.

Given that the code for creating an email from the data a user puts in a form already exists, and good coding practice would have separated the form fill-out from the email creation, the ability to create an email with arbitrary content would have existed with a minor code enhancement. Similarly, a mechanism already existed for a class of objects (badges) to be 'claimed' and award an unlockable in-game effect; creating a pseudo-object with the same function to use as an email attachment allows the devs to create an entirely new type of reward -- one that can be 'bought' by one character and given to another.

Here is a bit of an extra problem for you to overcome: The game is keeping track, without the global email, of global unlock purchases you've bought.

So there is zero need to have to go and claim each and every single unlocked item purchased.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

That might actually support the fact the global MA badges check the MA system.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Early Bird the only non-authoring badge globally awarded by the MA system? Therefore, it's coding might be a bit of a hack?

That's the only global badge I can think of that is based off what your character did - every other global badge is tied to MA system or the billing account.

No.

But it IS selfish to get pissed that the devs aren't giving you what you want right now, when it has only been TWO MONTHS since they started focusing on something else. People are getting genuinely angry that the devs are focusing on a group of people other than them.

If the people asking for an end game had gotten pissed when they didn't get it within 2 months, and had started the same kind of forum whine-fest, then yes, my opinion of them would have been the same.

That's the only thing I was trying to point out: Some people waited years, more or less without complaint, for their wants to be addressed. And now that they are getting it, some other people are complaining because they went a couple months without having what THEY want addressed.

So, it's fair for some people to wait years for what they want, but it's NOT fair for some other people to wait months?

And MY perception of who deserves what is skewed. Right.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

"I/we want an endgame system, you make me/us one" (or some other paraphrase) isn't a selfish request?

I've never seen a single request from the playerbase for an addition to this game that didn't seem to start with someone asking for something that clearly appealed to himself and his own personal use. It's just where a lot of ideas come from, and pitching an idea for something not for yourself doesn't make for a very compelling pitch. That it might appeal to someone else ends up as the flimsy camouflage of the self-serving nature of the request.

Given that you weren't here when the requests for an endgame system started in year one and got louder as more players hit level 40 (then 50) and had nothing to do but Hami raids and run the same TFs until they were blue in the face, I'm not sure how you can vouch for the civility of the initial requests.

And there's your cooky assumptions again. You think that if business has already been earned, someone cannot complain (has endgamer business not also already been earned over the last seven years, too?). Well, despite your assumptions to the contrary, not everyone in this game was catered to and pleased as punch up until April 2011. I suspect if anyone was 100% happy with this game before April 2011, they are probably 100% happy now, too, and NOT the people at whom you are still inexplicably cheesed off.

Maybe the concerns are long term, and not the the last two months (which is your personal development milestone and is irrelevant), which is why we've now got developers talking a bit about things coming down the road, like confirming new powerset development. Personally, what first got my dander up last week was about content in an issue that isn't even out yet.

There's also long list of unfulfilled hopes for this game that players are still sitting on when the endgamers have received their long-awaited due. For some, the Incarnate focus is the straw that broke the camel's back, not the first grievance they've ever had with the game. It just isn't as simple as you would like to make it out to be.

I think you're confusing two different things.

First is the concern about the development, which, as I have said is long term and immediate satisfaction is impossible. It could, however, be discouraging and worrisome to people looking down the road because endgame systems can change the nature of a game. It can be a guild/SG-imploding, playerbase-thinning headache. It remains to be seen how CoH will pan out, but we'd like to know what else is in the pipe. There is no short-term fix but more info, and the devs seem to agree and are starting to work on this part.

Second, when new rewards are tied to the Incarnate System, it is being perceived as unfair because the rewards are not necessarily Incarnate-related, it's a greater quantity of non-booster pack rewards of this type than have been released since last fall, and it's stuff everyone could potentially use because it's part of the game's strongest, most appealing element: the character creator. It has little to do with endgamers getting their due, as much as now that they have their due and its own set of gated rewards, where and when does stuff stop being arbitrarily dumped behind more gates in favor of content releases for everybody, including endgamers? You've finally got your endgame, and you can play it all you want, but it doesn't mean everyone wants to have to play it to access what are essentially basic cosmetic rewards.

Exactly.

Self-serving as I am, I want content that everyone can use and not have to buy a booster pack or grind the same thing to get it. I don't think this game needs more barriers to entry. On the other hand, champion of the long-oppressed that you are, you have a system of determining the deserving and undeserving based on wild assumptions and your own time-based criteria that nobody else is obligated to use.

Yep. I was one, waiting years for something substantial and new for my 50s to do. I was given two missions. The problem is that the vaunted new "endgame" has less actual new endgame content than i10 did, at best equivalent to i9 or i13.

Early Bird and Customizer are the result of character actions. Author and Recognized are directly related to published arcs.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters