So how OP'ed have we become?
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2011-05-20 19:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Can we go fight giant monsters solo yet?
Because that's the only thing I want to do. Prolly won't be allowed to, and I can't overcome the lag+disconnects+crappy drops to get the Incarnate doodads, anyway.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Honestly I've been on 20 minute Mowhatevers before Incarnate powers came out. Those times are not that impressive.
Hasn't been since Purples came out.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Yes... since like... long. i9 I guess, only IOs for some +rech etc are needed to change that from an epically long tedious task into piece of cake.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
Can we go fight giant monsters solo yet?
Because that's the only thing I want to do. Prolly won't be allowed to, and I can't overcome the lag+disconnects+crappy drops to get the Incarnate doodads, anyway. |
For instance ill/rad could easily solo every regular GM out there, long before incarnates.
Ill/rad is just an example, but many more can.
Duo MoITF - 26:06 | Duo MoKahn - 25:50 | Duo MoLGTF - 29:34 |
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for years now. get the right build, check the guides, ask people like werner or billz about great builds, cash up and get some ios, and boom, pre purples people were doing that. hell, repeat offenders were punting the game around for a long time now. really mmos are about knowing the game mechanics and finding the most optimized ways to interact with them, always have been, we are stronger now, but we went from being fedor emilinko fighting woody allen to being him fighting miley cyrus.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
Can we go fight giant monsters solo yet?
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So help me if this leads to the Incarnate abilities getting nerfed....
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I disbelieve that, sorry. Someone once ran the numbers and showed that there were only a couple specific builds that could solo a GM. All of them use pets, whether inherent or temp. I want to take my Blaster to Monster Island and punch one in the face without dying instantly. No one can do that.
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Originally Posted by TriAngel_EU
Ill/rad is just an example, but many more can.
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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You're kidding right? You realize ill/rad has pets? And PA is excellent for it since if you have enough +rech as I also mentioned you can keep it perma. They taunt and your GM will be attacking literally immortal pets for as long as it takes you to bring him down, which isn't long with the rad debuffs.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
I disbelieve that, sorry. Someone once ran the numbers and showed that there were only a couple specific builds that could solo a GM. All of them use pets, whether inherent or temp. I want to take my Blaster to Monster Island and punch one in the face without dying instantly. No one can do that.
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Pets? Check.
Think again.
Duo MoITF - 26:06 | Duo MoKahn - 25:50 | Duo MoLGTF - 29:34 |
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Some are getting tweaked in the next patch |
Originally Posted by Maggot4ever
So help me if this leads to the Incarnate abilities getting nerfed....
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Source?
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Some are getting tweaked in the next patch
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Long thread on Test about the various changes.
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Think GG is referring to:|
Originally Posted by Clouded
Source?
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Originally Posted by Freitag
Incarnate Powers
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and Black Scorpion's comments on the fix/break/future fix to Interface. (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...5&postcount=12)
<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]
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In order to solo a GM, you need two things:|
Originally Posted by Ironik
I disbelieve that, sorry. Someone once ran the numbers and showed that there were only a couple specific builds that could solo a GM. All of them use pets, whether inherent or temp. I want to take my Blaster to Monster Island and punch one in the face without dying instantly. No one can do that.
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1) A way to overpower the GM's regen.
2) A way to survive the GM's attacks.
The classic build is Illusion (PA gives you survival) paired with Radiation (Lingering Radiation shuts down regen), but I know it's been done with Bots/Traps (bodyguard for survival, Poison Trap for regen), Thugs/Traps (same), various Traps defenders (softcap+distance for survival, Poison Trap for regen), and even a /Mental blaster (softcap+distance for survival, Drain Psyche for regen).
With Incarnate powers, there are some scrappers and even tanks doing this, overpowering the GM's regen through the extra damage from Reactive interface and Lore pets.
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This is about where I fall for the moment. *shrug* Enjoying some parts of the game, not so much others. But things come and go in cycles for me. Depends as much on real life as it does the game at the time.|
Originally Posted by Rowdy
I don't get it. You spend hours upon hours taking your lvl 1 hero/villain to lvl 50. And then once you get there, you spend even more hours min/maxing the build with IOs, then once you're done that, you spend more hours running incarnate trials to make yourself even stronger. THEN you come on here and complain that you're too strong??
This argument is as silly as a man suing Mcdonalds for making him fat or very muscular man getting upset with his gym for making him too fit. You reap what you sow people. Besides it's not like you HAVE to use your incarnate powers. There is the option to unslot them. Heck, it's not like you have to use your IOs either. Dual builds ftw. As for the OP, expect those numbers to halve once the rest of the incarnate abilities are introduced.  |
Fresh air and a little bit of challenge IRL does wonders to reinvigorate my own enjoyment of the game in most any shape.
Are we overpowered? I'm up to 447 DPS on a pylon run and I just soloed a level 53 hero class Manticore.
On the other hand, a lvl 53 hero class BAB two shot me into the dirt.
Nope, balance still exists.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Rowdy said what I was thinking, but he said it nicer than I would have, so I'll just go with what he said. |
Originally Posted by Rowdy
I don't get it. You spend hours upon hours taking your lvl 1 hero/villain to lvl 50. And then once you get there, you spend even more hours min/maxing the build with IOs, then once you're done that, you spend more hours running incarnate trials to make yourself even stronger. THEN you come on here and complain that you're too strong??
This argument is as silly as a man suing Mcdonalds for making him fat or very muscular man getting upset with his gym for making him too fit. You reap what you sow people. |
You have gotten more powerful.
The devs CANNOT make pre-existing content more difficult, or it will become impossible for people who are NOT incarnates to run it.
Lets look at level ranges:
STF: 45-50
LRSF: 45-50
ITF: 35-50
LGTF: 45-50
KTF: 45-50
BSF: 45-50
Now, ALL of those Task Forces can be run by characters who are not even level 50 yet, much less Incarnates. Would it be fair to increase the difficulty of those TFs because Incarnate characters might run them? Not in the slightest.
Simple solution: Increase your difficulty settings when you are running these with Incarnates, instead of running them on +0 and complaining that they are too easy.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I have to agree...at least in part. The only disagreement I have, really, is that it's still possible to play the "unbroken" version of the game by simply not Incarnating a character. If you're an altoholic like me, there are plenty of characters on your roster that you can simply ignore the Incarnate stuff on. Kinda hard to shake the feeling in the back of my head that those characters are missing something, though... |
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Yes, they broke the game.
I have cancelled my account after 7 years due to the whole incarnate mess. I see they deleted the earlier thread on why folks are finding it harder and harder to log on. Once you are this powerful and the game is completely trivial with no challenge - its is time to go. I believe the Devs killed the game. I have spoken to a lot of veterans of the game lately and we are all of like idea - time to go. This Incarnate stuff was badly conceived and implemented IMHO. |
My current paid-for time is probably my last hurrah. It's been a glorious seven years, and I still have lots of good friends and beloved characters in the game, but all good things must eventually come to an end.
"And in this moment, I will not run.
It is my place to stand.
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands."
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It's been done by Rad/Sonic and Ill/Kin, as well...pre-Incarnate. |
Originally Posted by Katie V
In order to solo a GM, you need two things:
1) A way to overpower the GM's regen. 2) A way to survive the GM's attacks. The classic build is Illusion (PA gives you survival) paired with Radiation (Lingering Radiation shuts down regen), but I know it's been done with Bots/Traps (bodyguard for survival, Poison Trap for regen), Thugs/Traps (same), various Traps defenders (softcap+distance for survival, Poison Trap for regen), and even a /Mental blaster (softcap+distance for survival, Drain Psyche for regen). With Incarnate powers, there are some scrappers and even tanks doing this, overpowering the GM's regen through the extra damage from Reactive interface and Lore pets. |
Haven't tried it on my own "AV hunter" Ill/Kin (more purple than Welches)...have to do that before the sub runs out...
"And in this moment, I will not run.
It is my place to stand.
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands."
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I like this idea, because I too am sad to see Incarnates obliterating +4/x8 spawns as Emp/Psy defenders.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Well, part of it is being looked at - but still, when my Ice/Emp controller can start killing (standard or +1/1-2 player team size) groups solo like a blaster, it's a touch much. (Reactive +Sleet +AOE immob = lots of proccing.)
Which, if we were at or near the top of the Incarnate tree would be fine - but we're only at the halfway point. I mentioned elsewhere - what I'd look at is extending the idea in the level shift. Alpha's works everywhere - ok, 1 level's not bad. But have the powers have one level of ability in normal content, and when in an Incarnate "space" (trial, an invasion flagged as "incarnate," future possible incarnate arcs, etc.) the Incarnate abilities go to full strength. Higher damage, faster proccing, higher levels, etc. This would let the player maintain a "more powerful Incarnate" feel without overpowering (too much) regular content - and let the Incarnate content go over the top. |
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Wait.
Let me get this straight. You gained new abilities. You gained new levels. You gained more buffs. You gained more debuffs. Then you ran...OLDER content... And you think that makes you overpowered? Okay, let me hit you with a little a clue-hammer here. Well not so much a little one. It's a big one. Exactly... what... happened in the past... when you got a mission at level 10, then went back and did it at level 15? What exactly happened when you got a mission at level 15 and went back and did it at level 20? Was it possible, however unlikely, that maybe because you advanced in power, that the enemies were easier to defeat? Was it possible, however unlikely, that you were able to somehow complete that mission in much less time than you did before? Maybe I just need to do that whole larger-text with different color thing. THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE INCARNATE SYSTEM IS TO MAKE YOU MORE POWERFUL. |
hehehe /AGREED
I have seen a few threads like this one and my one big question is .. Have you heard of upping the difficulty? Now at times this may not be possible since you can't make every single TF leader run to a field rep and ask for +4 bad guys but I have done ITFs recently where everything we faced was level 54.
If the game has gotten TOO easy maybe you need to find ways to make it harder... not complain about getting more power. Hey here's an idea, sorry I am not a huge fan of SPEED RUNS, try not running past half the villains in every mission so you can just pound on what HAS to be destroyed to advance to the next mission. THEN while your at it up the difficulty to +4 ( I have found myself on speed runs where somehow the leader managed to set it to -1 to increase the speed.. GEE thanks my 30+ level character i was hoping to level on this loves that tactic!), and maybe even increase the number of mobs that spawn.
You might find the TF a challenge and even discover you get SHARDS, SALVAGE, RECIPES, including PURPLE ONES, and a lot more INF when you do them that way. The game has given us ways to increase the challenge if we want it. Sure if you are going to leave it set at 50 and then take an entire team of 50(+1) with tier 3 or 4 level Judgements, Lores, Destinies and Interfaces everything including the AV(s) will drop like flies. Make a choice.. Do you want it fast with a quick payoff or do you want a challenge.. with Incarnates you can have either.
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
This thread is an epic failure in reading comprehension...
*Facepalm*
Before anyone else jumps on the OP for being a whiner how about actually reading more than just the title?
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
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Reading comprehension, not your strong suit.
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Originally Posted by TriAngel_EU
You're kidding right? You realize ill/rad has pets? And PA is excellent for it since if you have enough +rech as I also mentioned you can keep it perma. They taunt and your GM will be attacking literally immortal pets for as long as it takes you to bring him down, which isn't long with the rad debuffs.
Pets? Check. Think again. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Reading comprehension is also a missing skill for you, apparently.
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Originally Posted by Katie V
In order to solo a GM, you need two things:
1) A way to overpower the GM's regen. 2) A way to survive the GM's attacks. The classic build is Illusion (PA gives you survival) paired with Radiation (Lingering Radiation shuts down regen), but I know it's been done with Bots/Traps (bodyguard for survival, Poison Trap for regen), Thugs/Traps (same), various Traps defenders (softcap+distance for survival, Poison Trap for regen), and even a /Mental blaster (softcap+distance for survival, Drain Psyche for regen). With Incarnate powers, there are some scrappers and even tanks doing this, overpowering the GM's regen through the extra damage from Reactive interface and Lore pets. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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The entire thread's existence us pointless. Those times have been unimpressive since purples came out.|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
This thread is an epic failure in reading comprehension...
*Facepalm* Before anyone else jumps on the OP for being a whiner how about actually reading more than just the title? |
Incarnates haven't done anything that wasn't already possible. Period.
If folks think they are racing through content, they can . . . UNSLOT their incarnate abilities.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
As you can see I don't often post but this has me annoyed enough to draw me out. We are NOT overpowered for the incarnate stuff, as several people have pointed out already.
If you don't like what the incarnate system does to OLD content crank up the difficulty and unslot the things.
Don't come to the forums whining for a nerf.
I've heard my fill of nerfherding in 7+ yrs and I'm tired of it. If you're gonna keep it up just ask the devs to neuter us and be done with it. Then when you're suddenly feeling powerless you can whine about that and I'll move on to something else. Geez!
CoH has never been a game about the endgame content, unlike most of the competition. CoH has ALWAYS been about alts. You get to 50, you roll another character, you get them to 50, you roll another.
Incarnates have changed the endgame paradigm somewhat, but the old game is still there, and you're not meant to be using your new shineys IN that content... Anyone that does, and then complains the game has become too easy, is an idiot.
People that aren't happy with the repetitious raiding, that's your own stupid fault. Stop running them dozens of times a day in an idiot effort to get all the new shineys NOW NOW NOW, and stop using those new shineys in a part of the game that was NEVER designed to be used with them in the first place.
You want the game to stop being easy? It's simple.
1. Disable incarnate slots
2. Remove IO's from your build and return to SO's.
3. Set your difficulty to +8
4. Cry when you get your backside kicked
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.