I hear MM got ripped off so tell me how it works
By
15bribri15,
Posted on: 2011-04-18 14:58 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
The drops are based on a random number generator. That means they are random. There is no conspiracy against MM's.
The reward tables are based on participation in the trials, and then modified by a random value.
The problem is WHAT is considered participation. Apparently, you can click pet commands until you're blue in the face, and will get little or no "participation" credit. Using your own attacks and buffs/debuffs will earn you much higher rewards than sitting back telling your pets what to do.
@Roderick
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Devs say otherwise in re ITrials.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
The drops are based on a random number generator. That means they are random. There is no conspiracy against MM's.
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Pyro_Master,
The consensus that seems to be forming is that AoE anything is helpful. Doesn't have to be AoE damage. It is said that affecting as many mobs as you can often as you can seems to be the trick.
But, who knows. Maybe it's all a case of confirmation bias. Idk.
As all_hell said with one caveat: the AoE can't come from a pet or pseudopet, like rains or whatnot. Apparently using those sorts of powers isn't counted as participation. Not gospel or dev confirmed, but it fits very well with my own experiences.
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Where did they say that? So far all I've seen is speculation by players, and my own experience has been overwhelmingly in favor of the rewards being random.
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Originally Posted by all_hell
Devs say otherwise in re ITrials.
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In this thread:|
Originally Posted by Flame_Strike
Where did they say that? So far all I've seen is speculation by players, and my own experience has been overwhelmingly in favor of the rewards being random.
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=258308
Reward System
Last, but certainly not least, we have been paying attention to your feedback and questions concerning the rewards from Incarnate Trials. Particularly, we understand the curiosity surrounding the way in which the Incarnate Trial Reward Tables are awarded. While were not going to give away the keys to the castle, heres a few points we wanted to share with you:
- As Second Measure previously said, the system rewards participation.
- The Trials are a group effort, so working together to complete the objectives of the event will provide a more rewarding experience for all members of the league.
- While there is an element of randomness, the system is not completely random.
- Dont forget that higher tier rewards can be broken down into lower tier components.
- We are actively monitoring the reward system to ensure it continues to reward players for their participation as fairly and equitably as possible.
- When a part of our community shows concern, such as Masterminds have, we will investigate the rewards and make tweaks as needed. In fact, you can expect to see some changes from the first round of metrics and feedback in an upcoming patch.
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In the February Producer's Letter.|
Originally Posted by Flame_Strike
Where did they say that? So far all I've seen is speculation by players, and my own experience has been overwhelmingly in favor of the rewards being random.
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Originally Posted by Second Measure
Rewarding
We also want you to feel rewarded for participation, and want everyone to have an equal chance at getting a reward, whether you are healing or buffing or debuffing or using pointy things to make moving things fall down. We also dont want to heavily reward people who dont contribute to the team effort. So when you help your team, you will get the good stuff. The more you help, the cooler the stuff will be, and/or the faster you will climb the Incarnate Abilities tree. But we also know everyone has a different level of investment, and persistence will pay off in the long run. |
@Roderick
Oh, then I guess it's both random and participation based then. That actually explains why people are getting such mixed results. Thank you for the links =D
As a data point, I did 3 on my Ninja/TA the other night and got 2 uncommons, and 1 rare table. However, I use Blinding Arrow, Poison Gas Arrow, Acid Arrow, and School of Sharks a lot, especially on BAF. Unfortunately, unless they fix pet and pseudopet participation, I'll probably not get a VR, due to most of TA's best AoE stuff (Resonance, Oil Slick, and Glue) being pseudopets.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Wow, thanks for the info! That's definitely good to know.|
Originally Posted by all_hell
Devs say otherwise in re ITrials.
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Are we sure that this affects only rewards, and not IXP? I am currently going through the process on my second toon, after doing so on my main. And while I haven't noticed any difference in the randomness of the rewards, I seem to definitely be getting less IXP.
On my main, unlocking the slots was something I didn't even pay attention to. I just did the trials, and the slots got unlocked looooong before I had anything to put in them. Literally they were unlocked in the first day or 2, and then I spent a good week working on slotting them.
But now, I'm only like 50% into my lore, only like 15% into my destiny. Ironically, I have all my tier 3's already crafted. I'm sure I can get my tier 4's crafted before I even unlock the slots. Is this normal? It's completely different from my experience last week on my main, so I'm not sure how to explain it.
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I don't know. I don't know if we're sure of anything really.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
Are we sure that this affects only rewards, and not IXP?
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Arcanaville is sure of somethings that are NOT going on because how the data she(?) collected is distributed.
But the rest--besides what the devs said--is based on loosely grouped observations of anecdotal data points.
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iXP is primarily based on the damage dealt by your team (as opposed to the league as a whole). There also seems to be some evidence that different characters on the same team can get different amounts but this hasn't been fully tested.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
Are we sure that this affects only rewards, and not IXP? I am currently going through the process on my second toon, after doing so on my main. And while I haven't noticed any difference in the randomness of the rewards, I seem to definitely be getting less IXP.
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The reward table most definitely favors certain ATs. My Scrapper gets almost exclusively rares. My Defender? Currently at 87% uncommon, with the rest common. Never once gotten higher. It is quite infuriating.
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Well, up until now, I've concentrated on being a controller on these teams - holding mobs, confuse, summoning creepers and other pets, etc. I've been getting mostly common drops.
Tonight, I just spammed roots, and AE attacks. The result: 3 rares and 1 uncommon.
I'm really shaking my head ... I get a higher reward for just tagging mobs than for doing what I consider my job as a troller.
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and that's the crux of the biscuit.
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Originally Posted by Hercules
I'm really shaking my head ... I get a higher reward for just tagging mobs than for doing what I consider my job as a troller.
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If this really is the case, that's crazy. It completely screws over Storm Summoning characters.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
As all_hell said with one caveat: the AoE can't come from a pet or pseudopet, like rains or whatnot. Apparently using those sorts of powers isn't counted as participation. Not gospel or dev confirmed, but it fits very well with my own experiences.
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Yup and on my brute which has tons of aoe and bunches of rares and very rares, all I need is commons. Since rares only break down to 20 threads and uncommons break down to 8-10, I have an incentive to not help out, or to do as little as possible to get the reward I want. What is the point of trying as hard as I can for probably an uncommon that I can break down to get half a common vs doing the bare minimum and getting a full common?
On my defender I have the opposite problem. No real aoe attakcs and mainly just buffing, debuffing and healing. Commons galore.
Some friends and I did some testing of this last weekend. Ran a whole lot of Lambdas back to back.
On one had 4 people on each team doorsit, they always got the threads rewards table. Everyone who actually ran the trial got normal-looking rewards. That is to say, 1 rare or VR, several uncommons, several commons.
We did another run where all the doorsitters were on one team, they got diddly squat aside from merits. No iXP, nothing. Again, thread reward table at the end.
So it seems the best way to game the system is have half the team leech at the door so they get exp towards unlocking their slots, while the other half get better drops. You then switch it up after a while so the fully unlocked people get drops and you rotate in new alts.
When you have a system that isn't totally random, it can and will be gamed. Cheers, devs.
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I think that's your problem right there to begin with. Don't think of it as a job.|
Originally Posted by Hercules
Well, up until now, I've concentrated on being a controller on these teams - holding mobs, confuse, summoning creepers and other pets, etc. I've been getting mostly common drops.
Tonight, I just spammed roots, and AE attacks. The result: 3 rares and 1 uncommon. I'm really shaking my head ... I get a higher reward for just tagging mobs than for doing what I consider my job as a troller. |
Think of it as get in there and hit those control AND attack powers!
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Plant/Storm.|
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
If this really is the case, that's crazy. It completely screws over Storm Summoning characters.
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Have fun trying to put together an attack chain from Gale, Roots, and Seeds of Confusion.
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My Earth/Storm gets the best results from ignoring anything useful and just spamming Stone Cages over and over. Can throw in Stalagmites for variety.|
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
If this really is the case, that's crazy. It completely screws over Storm Summoning characters.
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I still wind up using my pseudopets because I have to live with myself
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Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
If this really is the case, that's crazy. It completely screws over Storm Summoning characters.
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My Plant/Emp is pretty unimpressed with this too. Sod healing people or using Creepers, I'll just hit Roots over and over again to maximise my rewards.
I noticed this with my Earth/Fire Dominator. If I just spam the AoE immobilize over and over and over I get really good rewards. My Elec/Elec Dominator.. same things really good rewards.
My Ice/Cold Defender.. teams move to fast for me to buff then with shields.. My AoE powers by and large are pet based ( Debuff, Ice storm and Blizzard ) all he gets are commons all the time and I dont have 100+ million influence (which is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to high a number btwIMO should be like 25millon) to craft anything.
I dont even want to try my masterminds after hearing how much they are being screwed. What really saddens me is that apparently this was pointed out in the beta.
and although this has nothing to do with this at all. The raid content on my older PC is super super laggy. I am playing now with minimum settings and its still slow. CoH has finally made it hard for me to place on my old PC. I can play regylar content fine. But this new stuff with all the blasts and buffs is brutal on my PC.
Its funny that for years it seems they have been AGAINST farmin and running the same maps over and over for rewards and are not ENCOURAGING it through their new end game content.
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Originally Posted by Airhammer
I noticed this with my Earth/Fire Dominator. If I just spam the AoE immobilize over and over and over I get really good rewards. My Elec/Elec Dominator.. same things really good rewards.
My Ice/Cold Defender.. teams move to fast for me to buff then with shields.. My AoE powers by and large are pet based ( Debuff, Ice storm and Blizzard ) all he gets are commons all the time and I dont have 100+ million influence (which is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to high a number btwIMO should be like 25millon) to craft anything. I dont even want to try my masterminds after hearing how much they are being screwed. What really saddens me is that apparently this was pointed out in the beta. and although this has nothing to do with this at all. The raid content on my older PC is super super laggy. I am playing now with minimum settings and its still slow. CoH has finally made it hard for me to place on my old PC. I can play regylar content fine. But this new stuff with all the blasts and buffs is brutal on my PC. |
Sadly a large chunk of this is actually server-side with the old "Icons appearing recharged when they actually aren't". Which to my mind isn't really acceptable. If your new content is designed around 24 person content then realistically it should actually work properly and not cause too much work for the servers where you run the content.
I heard someone say that MMs get lower value drop pools on itrials, and then on the controller forum, I see that someone using deceive a lot is worried about participation for pools. Now I have heard other little tid bits about you being able to influence your drops after trials, but I have no idea how. Can anyone fill me in on what they know or think affects the drop choices? Because on my fire/rad troller, I have gotten several uncommons, a handful of commons, 3 rares, and a single very rare (which is the only way I'll use a t4 btw) but all of the runs I do the same ampount of work, and don't know what could cause one run to be common, and that one lucky shot to be VR. Someone please explain to me, as Pwiki has nothing on it.