I hear MM got ripped off so tell me how it works
By
15bribri15,
Posted on: 2011-04-18 14:58 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I like to think that your mastermind is the offensive version mine wishes he could be without losing the metric crap-ton of survivability I built in.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
They all said I was mad when I took 2 of the Pulse Rifle attack and an aoe immobilize but I showed them!
Muhahahahaha. |
I bet you even have hasten. I wish I could fit hasten. But Leadership, Provoke, Teleport, and Aid Other are all more important...
I guess I could do without the three Teleport powers. Swap recall friend for Hasten, Teleport for Super Speed, and Team Teleport for Aid Self.
Wow, that could give me more offense and survivability. But sweet Teleport! Teamport! Vertical movement without using a jetpack! Maybe it's worth it. Aid Self? Hmmmm. I already have huge regen and +max HP. Maybe Aid Self is overkill.
Damnit, Adeon! I'll spend hours contemplating this and sitting in mids! Then hours again doing the actual respec! Then hours again buying the new IOs I deem necessary!
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Or we could all switch to an ITrial build.
Something I have been actively contemplating.
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Done.|
Originally Posted by all_hell
Or we could all switch to an ITrial build.
Something I have been actively contemplating. |
Build 1: Standard Bots/Traps, built to survive WW4 and destroy small continents like Asia.
Build 2: Petless/Trapless man build that primarily uses whirlwind, patron powers, and pulse rifle blasts to affect as many enemies as possible.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Pretty much, yeah.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Done.
Build 1: Standard Bots/Traps, built to survive WW4 and destroy small continents like Asia. Build 2: Petless/Trapless man build that primarily uses whirlwind, patron powers, and pulse rifle blasts to affect as many enemies as possible. |
I'd build my brutes to have high recharge and as many AoEs as I could find. Building for survivability and damage output only as an afterthought.
Haven't done it yet cause I'd feel like a dick subjecting my teammates to it. But I am not all ate up craving the new powers yet either.
Hmmm no wonder my SS/Fire brute gets V rares and rares without even trying.....
I'm really excited to play my fire/fire/fire dom now!
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Bear in mind that these theories are not confirmed as valid and are generated haphazardly from random collection of anecdotes.|
Originally Posted by MajorTractor
Hmmm no wonder my SS/Fire brute gets V rares and rares without even trying.....
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Also, there is supposed to be random element to the system and that we may be competing against each other as well.
So, according to prevailing theory, fwiw, you should bring your AoE heavy toons to runs full of single target toons and hope the random factor doesn't skew rewards against you.
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End game PVE looks a lot like PVP now. Everyone can enjoy this brilliance now!
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Originally Posted by Hercules
Well, up until now, I've concentrated on being a controller on these teams - holding mobs, confuse, summoning creepers and other pets, etc. I've been getting mostly common drops.
Tonight, I just spammed roots, and AE attacks. The result: 3 rares and 1 uncommon. I'm really shaking my head ... I get a higher reward for just tagging mobs than for doing what I consider my job as a troller. |
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Pretty much, you definitely have a larger margin for error than I do (through Aid Other, Frostworks and being further over the defense cap). I have enough survivability for most things but when things go wrong I go down fast.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I like to think that your mastermind is the offensive version mine wishes he could be without losing the metric crap-ton of survivability I built in.
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On the other hand I have a resistance shield instead of defense so against enemies that deal primarily S/L/E damage I'm pretty tough (psionic on the other hand rips right though me since I can do basically nothing against it other than use inspirations).
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| I bet you even have hasten. I wish I could fit hasten. But Leadership, Provoke, Teleport, and Aid Other are all more important... |
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| Damnit, Adeon! I'll spend hours contemplating this and sitting in mids! Then hours again doing the actual respec! Then hours again buying the new IOs I deem necessary! |
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Awful idea. You'd just have characters built for gaming the system and not helping the league.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I know the solution!
Make components tradeable, but not sellable (at least in WW, if people sell them off market, different story)! |
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It's unlikely to happen simply because I imagine the devs want people to do the trials to get them instead of buying them.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I know the solution!
Make components tradeable, but not sellable (at least in WW, if people sell them off market, different story)! |
As for no-market trades, why bother? If you make them tradeable people will sell them, no question. Allowing them to be sold on the market means we won't have to put up with a ton of people sitting in atlas park spamming "WTS 100 threads, 1million inf each, pst with offer".
However as TCS said allowing them to be traded will encourage even more attempts to game the system.
The semi-compromise solution I'd kind of like to see is making them "bound to account" meaning you can transfer them between different characters on your account but can't trade them to other players.
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Good tip!!|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Actually, you can see your leaguemates. There's an option on the minimap to toggle the display of non-team league members.
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Originally Posted by Silas
I personally think such a system would be preferable to the current one, but let's wait until I've spent an evening for each of my main characters gaming the system to get all my tier3s slotted
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Hmm... this thread makes me sad-face... 
No wonder my ninja/storm MM has only gotten 2 uncommon reward tables... the rest common... given that I mostly use Snow Storm, School of Sharks, and (pseudo)pets...
I won't give up, though! Logging in ASAP and Herd-icaning the entire map! I'm determined to get a Rare table! (I might even use Gale 
)
I have been determined to get tier 4s for my TA/Sonic Defender. Here has been my luck so far:
1: 10 Shards
3: Common
62: Uncommon
8: Rare
0: Very Rare
So how do I get out of uncommon purgatory? The funny thing is that my ROLE is to debuff opponents so that my allies do more damage, but the result of this role seems to simply feed better rewards to my allies...
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Start attacking a bit more and debuff a bit less?|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
I have been determined to get tier 4s for my TA/Sonic Defender. Here has been my luck so far:
1: 10 Shards 3: Common 62: Uncommon 8: Rare 0: Very Rare So how do I get out of uncommon purgatory? The funny thing is that my ROLE is to debuff opponents so that my allies do more damage, but the result of this role seems to simply feed better rewards to my allies... |
Really, I haven't seen the need to really go all out on the debuffing to take out the enemies.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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You play a Scrapper....
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Start attacking a bit more and debuff a bit less?
Really, I haven't seen the need to really go all out on the debuffing to take out the enemies. |
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That's the thing though-- I am helping my team more with Acid Arrow, Poison Gas Arrow, Flash Arrow, Oil Slick Arrow, and Disruption Arrow while using Howl to provide an additional -20% resistance to an AoE. So, in order to get better rewards, I need to contribute less to the team by fitting the formula better? Even steam roll teams are better served by my debuffing resistance than by spamming attacks for paltry defender level damage.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Start attacking a bit more and debuff a bit less?
Really, I haven't seen the need to really go all out on the debuffing to take out the enemies. |
I first did the trials with a fire/fire tank.
I blazed through the ixp bars. I got rares and very rares (a FEW, not too many). I was able to reach T3's and even a couple of T4's.
Flush with success, I fired up my MA/wp scrapper.
Holy crap.
Ok, the MA/wp goes back onto the shelf until this system gets fixed, because it is NOT WORTH IT.
Now, it's elec/elec time! 
Very sad face, but that explains a lot.
A system that has healing aura on auto gaining more rewards than active shielding misses the mark of what I see as particpation in Heroes by a lot.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
Hi
After a 14 commons in-a-row streak I read this thread and tried using only aoe non-pseudo-pet powers. Being a DS/DM/Mace MM that meant fearsome stare, judgement and web-envelope. I also have hasten which i rarely use but this time I had it up as much as possible to spam web/FS even more.
Again this is only anecdotal evidence but the runs i had time to participate in (BAf and Lambda) netted me a rare and an uncommon- so it seems the way to go for me.
/Tom
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So a master mind with storm secondary cant get credit for participation? That is what I am hearing. |
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
If this really is the case, that's crazy. It completely screws over Storm Summoning characters.
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I am wondering how well my bot/ff mastermind will do, does force bubble count for 'tagging' them? Or should I just spam repulsion bomb and do nothing else?
The best solution IMO is to:
1. Change the formula to account for all the powersets that they apparantly didnt code for. (i.e. some AE attacks, debuffs, buffs, PET attacks, etc )
2. Use this formula to ONLY determine a minimum threshold of participation.
I would require:
- the person has to have moved away from the mission entrance, and NOT via /follow
- the person has to have used a minimum number of targeted powers ( take the mission duration and say the person has to have activated "X" number of powers per second )
- the person has to have used more than a certain minimum number of powers ( i.e. just spamming a single target heal over and over doesnt cut it )
- the person has to have participated in each phase of the mission
3. Once the formula determines that a person actually participated, make the rewards table random. (i.e. common=40%, uncommon=30%, rare=20%, very rare =10%, or whatever proportion they determine is fair )
4. If the formula determines that they didn't participate, they get the crap reward.
Not perfect, but better than what's in place.
131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )
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Well, you have Gale.
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Originally Posted by _Zep_
So a master mind with storm secondary cant get credit for participation? That is what I am hearing.
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And Hurricane! (Assuming non-damaging debuffs count, which I haven't heard evidence against.) As an added 'bonus', if you use it to scatter the enemies, it makes your teammates' AoEs less effective, so you get more time to generate precious hits on the next wave of enemies while your teammates mop up the current wave!|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
Well, you have Gale.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Done.
Build 1: Standard Bots/Traps, built to survive WW4 and destroy small continents like Asia. Build 2: Petless/Trapless man build that primarily uses whirlwind, patron powers, and pulse rifle blasts to affect as many enemies as possible. |
I like to think that before the rewards system gets fixed, there will be trials consisting entirely of people randomly spamming ineffective AoEs on everything in sight with no rhyme or reason. If somebody tries to put one together on Test, let me know and I'll bring a character. However, I require that you let me make a macro that spams 'HURRRRRRRRRRR' and 'DURRRRRRRRRRR' a few times a minute.
(If it wasn't obvious, this is criticism of the system, not the players trying to coax it into giving them good rewards. The sky is blue, birds fly, and players attempt to maximize rewards.)
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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Or maybe allow to be traded within the account via your email. Basically have the items tagged to be only sent to yourself.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I know the solution!
Make components tradeable, but not sellable (at least in WW, if people sell them off market, different story)! |
Either way I would hope they fix this issue. My crappy AR Device by terms of numbers is definitely getting Tons more drops then my Mastermind did. I pretty much have everything slotted T3 and Pets at T4 on that toon.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Make components tradeable, but not sellable (at least in WW, if people sell them off market, different story)!
The solution is to fix the metric, not to throw out the system. It's a good system as an idea, it's just blatantly ignorant of some powersets and the resulting play styles. Tankers and Masterminds are the ATs hit hardest, given their almost complete lack of personal AoE attacks.
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