List of an Annoyed Mastermind
By
Abraxxus,
Posted on: 2011-04-13 18:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I've gotten 1 rare and 1 very rare reward table, the rest have all been commons with a couple uncommons mixed in.
Haven't seen the 10 threads or inspiration table, not even the time I was lagging so bad I really couldn't do anything at all.
This was with 2 scrappers and a blaster, and my totals above were across all of them, not just a single character.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I think the problem is the "leechers reward" is showing up twice in the reward caculations. If you doorsit, you get 10 threads period. However, the 10 thread option is also included in the list of tables that the RNG picks from after you met the "participation threshold". Thats likely how that poor Huntsman got the booby prize I bet.|
Originally Posted by Rikis
I was specifically aiming my comment at the "10 Threads" reward being for leechers. I know that the Huntsman in the trial also complained about getting the 10 Threads reward table and she wasn't leeching either, hell, she was leading the charge.
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IF that's the way it works, then it's a bit borked- the "doorsit" reward shouldn't be in the list of rewards for actively playing.
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I've done over 30 succesfull trials on my dark/dark corrupter, always doing my very best to be of use to the league. Most of the times I got a common or uncommon at about a 50/50 devide. I also have gotten 2 very rares and 2 rares. 1 very rare was on a succesfull MoBAF which I was leading, and because of that not participating as much as I usually do. |
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Until the devs come out and tell us how it works, we can't be sure one way or the other.
Current observations suggest that the reward tables are influenced by participation. |
The other 3 where on attempted MoLambda runs. We failed them, running out of time and needing to use a few grenades at the end to complete. On all 3 of those MoLambdas there were always a much larger amount of players than average, (8 or more) that had at least a rare reward table.
No idea what to conclude out of that, other than that all Lambda runs I'll be organising will be Mo's from now on.
Edit: hmm, thought I was on the Incarnate rewards discussion thread, but I guess it fits here too.
@True Metal
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MM - Bots/Traps: 5 runs of Lambda & BAF; 3 common rewards, 2 10 threads award (and this one was up front every single fight for each, no leaching or hanging back; all bots out firing away each time)
Stalker - DB/Ninja: 7 runs of Lambda and BAF; 1 very rare, 1 rare, 4 uncommons, 1 10 incarnate threads (first run I did, where I was clueless and dead most of the time) 
Tanker - SS/Invul: 2 runs of BAF; 1 rare, 1 uncommon
Seems to me there is a MM bias for rewards.
Just another set of inputs to this post's list.
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See, this is what makes me think the participation goes beyond a binary random good/thread choice and influences the chance of each table. The fact that you usually get a common is completely different from my experiences. I played for all day Saturday and unlocked 3 slots on one character and nothing on the other two I tried. During that time, I got exactly one common - and that was when I switched from my scrapper to a defender to try him out. Getting mostly commons sounds like an extraordinarily bad run of luck given my experiences. More likely, it's not random.
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Originally Posted by Noxilicious
For what it's worth, so far I have only done the trials on my Mastermind and I have yet to get the ten shards/one super inspiration table. It's usually the Common table with the occasional Uncommon table.
Sooo, I dunno. I'm not much of a numbers/data person but I can't say I've really been screwed over. I just figured the Rare and Very Rare tables are kinda meant to be, you know, rare and very rare. |
It seems very random to me but I've only run the trials 7 times all on my tanker. I got one rare, one uncommon, and the other 5 commons. One time I got an uncommon dropped on me randomly during the mission.
I kinda wish the participator rewards didn't have commons just uncommon rare and ultra rare tables.
Early results from a new Mastermind tactic - enter with nothing summoned or toggled. Get into the BAF compound if you're doing the BAF. Then summon and toggle up. 2/2 Uncommon Rewards so far... (better than I have been doing otherwise)
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the first time you get a side badge you get a uncommon, first time you get an MO badge you get a rare|
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
One time I got an uncommon dropped on me randomly during the mission.
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after that you get extra astral merits
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So that one trial where I spend most of the time running back from the hospital on a low damage team and got a very rare...how does that fit into your anecdotal evidence?|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Until the devs come out and tell us how it works, we can't be sure one way or the other.
Current observations suggest that the reward tables are influenced by participation. |
And that other trial where I died once, gained close to 50% of the XP needed to open up a slot and got a common reward. How does that fit in?
In order for your theory to be correct, the dev team had to come up with some sort of a reward table based on some sort of arbitrary way of determining which characters participated more, and code that in to work on just these two trials without breaking anything else.
OR...random = random.
When applying Occam's Razor to this, you come out with the latter.
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50% chance uncommon|
Originally Posted by LISAR
I kinda wish the participator rewards didn't have commons just uncommon rare and ultra rare tables.
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25% Rare
25% Very Rare
That'd work much better. Seriously, both trials excrete threads and AMerits so fast that you do not need Common drops in there. At all. Ever.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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That's what's tripping us up. If the metrics used were accurate, we wouldn't have to have this conversation. Unfortunately, what we consider participation and what the server considers participation are obviously very different things.|
Originally Posted by UberRod
I participated as well as anyone else.
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Originally Posted by Defenestrator
So that one trial where I spend most of the time running back from the hospital on a low damage team and got a very rare...how does that fit into your anecdotal evidence?
And that other trial where I died once, gained close to 50% of the XP needed to open up a slot and got a common reward. How does that fit in? |
I've also stated that I don't believe damage dealt to be measured in the participation assessment; and likewise, maybe running back from the hospital every time you die rather than lay on your face waiting for some to rez you actually works in your favor.
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I'm confused why everybody says this. I get a handful of thread drops per run (lowest was 2, not sure what the highest was). Breaking down the 4 Astral merits gets me another 16. I need 140 threads to craft all the Commons I need to get up to a single T3 Destiny. Am I missing some huge fountain of threads everybody but me knows about, or what?
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
both trials excrete threads and AMerits so fast
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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I'm wondering the same thing. Where are you guys finding all these threads? I tend to end up with somewhere in the four to six range per run, for both the BAF and Lambda. Astral merits get me more, but those don't really fall from the sky in droves either... So, how's it done? I need to know. All my tank's been getting are Uncommons, and that's not what he needs a ton of to craft his toys.
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
I'm confused why everybody says this. I get a handful of thread drops per run (lowest was 2, not sure what the highest was). Breaking down the 4 Astral merits gets me another 16. I need 140 threads to craft all the Commons I need to get up to a single T3 Destiny. Am I missing some huge fountain of threads everybody but me knows about, or what?
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@Brightfires - @Talisander
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On Union MO BAF or nearly MO BAF runs are regular occurances which nets you 5 or more Astral merits per run.
These translate into 20 Threads plus whatever you got on the Trial.
Honestly, the reward tables are borked. I've done well over 60+ trial runs between my Brute and Dom. In both cases, well over half of my rewards have been of the uncommon variety. Even after slotting all 4 of their Tier 3s, they still have at least 2-3 types of each uncommon left. Anyways, behind the uncommon comes the rares(about 10-12 times), common(8-10 times), very rare(5 times I think) and 10 threads(only 1 time).
Personally, I would much rather reverse my luck in common vs uncommon. I just don't need that many and the breakdown ratio stinks.
Another data point on the subject of participation-based reward tables.
Something is going on. What is going on I'm not sure. But I'm prepared to state that the probability is essentially zero that the thread/common/uncommon/rare/VR table selection is completely random. Worth noting I have yet to see anything but the middle three, and uncommon is *overwhelmingly* the highest frequency table for me so far.
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A lot of trial leaders are putting one group on adds. That one group on adds is taking all the drops. Drops are not spread through the whole League, they are still restricted to each individual team within the League.|
Originally Posted by Bright
I'm wondering the same thing. Where are you guys finding all these threads? I tend to end up with somewhere in the four to six range per run, for both the BAF and Lambda. Astral merits get me more, but those don't really fall from the sky in droves either... So, how's it done? I need to know. All my tank's been getting are Uncommons, and that's not what he needs a ton of to craft his toys.
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Leaders are beginning to realize this, so more of them are beginning to place 1-3 people from each team on adds duty, while the rest of the team takes care of the main objectives. This way the damage done to the adds is spread around all of the teams and more drops are spread outside of the one group on adds.
If you see a leader say for one group to take out the adds, let them know the mechanics. They might not realize that.
Or they might know it and do it to favor themselves or friends. These people tend to not even respond to comments about skewed drops. I leave these trials when I notice this, and player rate/star the leader involved as one-star.
Or they might know it and do it but in a round-robin fashion by running multiple trials in a row (but then a PUG who's there for only one trial is playing crap-shoot whether they'll get on the adds team). This isn't the same as the previous group, but still not really the kind of leader I want to PUG with, since I don't know if I'll be lucky or not, since I typically cannot stomach more than two runs in a row. (I am not good at grouped repetitive tasks. I can solo repetitive tasks all day long but if I'm with a group, I want to do something varied. The trials.....they are not.)
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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I also have gotten crap rewards from completing, and i have been grinding 4-5 times a day with the same character since i20 release.
80% commons, 20% uncommons.
The inf cost for rare/very rare is way too high for me to progress if i am to keep getting screwed.
bots/ff
In about 25 Trial runs I have not once seen the very rare reward table.
Kind of cheesing me off now.
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I wish I had your Commons luck at the moment... My stalker didn't have any trouble getting those, or the number of uncommons she needed. (Her difficulty came in finding Rares-) The tank, on the other hand has been stuck in Uncommon hell. |
Originally Posted by atomicdeath
I also have gotten crap rewards from completing, and i have been grinding 4-5 times a day with the same character since i20 release.
80% commons, 20% uncommons. The inf cost for rare/very rare is way too high for me to progress if i am to keep getting screwed. bots/ff |
Seriously, I've done a bit over a dozen assorted runs with him so far and with the sole exception of the very first Lambda he was on (Where he died several times, yet somehow still pulled out a Rare. o_0) Uncommon is all he's gotten. No commons, no additional rares.
I have yet to see the Very Rare table with anyone.
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1) No reason to be an ***.|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Presumably the same way your head does. I never suggested that participation is the only factor in the selection of reward tables, and in fact clarified as such in my first post. I've also stated that I don't believe damage dealt to be measured in the participation assessment; and likewise, maybe running back from the hospital every time you die rather than lay on your face waiting for some to rez you actually works in your favor. |
2) Okay, so we should believe that some how and in some way they've coded the reward tables to take into account the other intangible things other than damage, which may or may not include: buffing, debuffing, healing and traveling back from the hospital?
What I CAN believe that they might have coded is that someone who repeatedly disconnects (i.e. doesn't participate), or someone who sits in place and not fires off any powers (i.e. leeches) is being tracked. It would be easy to have this on some sort of timer. That's something that would actually be very easy to encode, and their reward is therefor a rock (i.e. 10 threads).
So this would skew your experiments. "I stood around and did nothing and got the worst reward," would actually be working as intended. But the Common/Uncommon/Rare/Very Rare drop rate would probably still be random, as intended.
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I have gotten 2 rares, 4 Very rares, 2-3 of each uncommon and 1 common. The only time I got the 10 threads was when I was constantly DCing because my ISP SUCKS!
This is on my crab. The crummy thing is I would much rather get commons than uncommons at this point because I need alot more commons than an uncommon and they breakdown to 1/2 of a common!
When you have every uncommon you need they are the same as getting the 10 thread prize! I wish we could break them down to at least 1 common.
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This. There's been times when I felt like intentionally doing nothing just to try and get a common. Seems kinda backwards.
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Originally Posted by Mephe
I wish we could break them down to at least 1 common.
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If the Praetorian zone events were intended as a field test of weighted rewards based on participation, they didn't work. The MM issues alone should have indicated that the idea should be scrapped. Any system like that is pretty much borked at conception in this game, with so many varying mechanics and so many ways to contribute that can't be quantified. All it does is encourage people to figure out ways to game the system, and then do so, probably to the detriment of the team, which is the exact opposite of what they were trying to accomplish.
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