Multi-group content is not the way.
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-04-06 22:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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If i counted correctly, i think it takes 540 threads to make a rare, unless you used a lot of empyrean merits. How many times did you do the trial to get those?
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Originally Posted by Arilou
Honestly, there's not much grinding involved in this. I'd have gotten my Rare Destiny slot in less than three days were it not for the maintainance thing.
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I'm not quite there yet (I lack some 40 threads due to the shutdown of the servers) but once I'd gotten the hang of the thing I was usually getting 20+ threads per run. (more if I got lucky on the rolls)|
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
If i counted correctly, i think it takes 540 threads to make a rare, unless you used a lot of empyrean merits. How many times did you do the trial to get those?
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Mind, I've not been beelining for the Destiny Rare or anything, I have the Uncommon Judgement and common Interface as well.
I have five uncommons (1 of every kind +1 duplicate) about 80 threads, an Ancient Technique (very rare, got lucky on the roll, not going to get a use for that one in a while) I also broke down two uncommons for threads, and used one to craft my Uncommon Judgement. (Two of the uncommon components were from getting badges, the rest from completing trials)
I think I've used three Empyreal merits, and I have one saved (presumably in order to get a second rare eventually)
EDIT: I also converted 10 shards>threads. (I had about four shards+1 notice and assorted components and got 12 shards running an ITF+converting the notice that I haven't converted yet)
EDIT2: I should note that I've been largely letting the component-drops decide exactly what tree I go for. (My intention was to get the Rare Lore or Destiny slot quickly, but I haven't actually unlocked Lore yet, so Destiny it is)
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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You can get a rare salvage drop at the end of the trial, and random salvage can drop during it.
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Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
If i counted correctly, i think it takes 540 threads to make a rare, unless you used a lot of empyrean merits. How many times did you do the trial to get those?
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"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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Thanks for the info. Just needed a better frame of reference than 3 days so i can know what to expect. Like how many hours in those days and/or how many trials in those hours...but 20 threads a run is a good reference point.
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Originally Posted by Arilou
I'm not quite there yet (I lack some 40 threads due to the shutdown of the servers) but once I'd gotten the hang of the thing I was usually getting 20+ threads per run. (more if I got lucky on the rolls)
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I should note that most of these threads are from Astral Merit conversions, with a couple extra threads thrown from drops, and then I think you get a small number for actually completing one.
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Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
Thanks for the info. Just needed a better frame of reference than 3 days so i can know what to expect. Like how many hours in those days and/or how many trials in those hours...but 20 threads a run is a good reference point.
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"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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I've tried to articulate just exactly this same sentiment many times before, but I think you really nailed it, Lazarillo. I'm right there with you.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
I want to elaborate a little on the answer to the "why quit if the old parts of the game weren't taken away" question.
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Originally Posted by Arilou
I should note that most of these threads are from Astral Merit conversions, with a couple extra threads thrown from drops, and then I think you get a small number for actually completing one.
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Sorry if this becomes annoying...just a bit more info maybe.
If you have to hazard a guess...(breaking down random component drops and merits into threads) how many threads per hour do you think you averaged?
Rough estimate is fine.
EDIT: Oops...by breakdown i don't mean using the breakdown conversion...i mean equivalent threads for the component...ie: to craft a common component needs 20 threads.
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Wouldn't it have been quicker just to type that?|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Stop having fun, guys! Video games are serious business!
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Edit: Wow this thread got huge. By now this seems like almsot a non-sequitur. Familia had grumped that TF's are not the place for "inane banter".. and.. yeah. *catches up on the next billion pages*
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No idea... it's very uneven depending on how the trial goes. Lambda gives less threads than BAF, generally speaking (But if you succeed with Lambda you almost automatically get max rewards) |
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
Sorry if this becomes annoying...just a bit more info maybe.
If you have to hazard a guess...(breaking down random component drops and merits into threads) how many threads per hour do you think you averaged? Rough estimate is fine. |
I'd say *on average* about 20 or a bit more per hour, but I suspect that's going to increase as success-rate increases (both because of people figuring out the mechanics of the trial, and people getting more powers)
Mind, the big random/time factor is that when you succeed on a trial you get (at worst) an uncommon component: That's a LOT of time saved. (60 threads) and you might get a rare or very rare which cuts the time down even more.
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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Uhh... what? I completed two BAFs today and both times I got a Common reward table. I would have been estatic if I had gotten an Uncommon.
| Mind, the big random/time factor is that when you succeed on a trial you get (at worst) an uncommon component: That's a LOT of time saved. (60 threads) and you might get a rare or very rare which cuts the time down even more. |
Statesman said let there be heroes, and there were heroes.
Lord Recluse said let there be villains, and there were villains.
NCsoft said let there be nothing, and there was nothing.
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The difference between the trials and the LGTF is that the LGTF is played the same way as the other 95% of the game in which everyone sits in a warehouse pounding their fists while you go at your own leisurely pace with little chance of failing.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Yeah, we get it, you like your shinies. Tell me, would you still love the trials as much if they gave comparable rewards to, say, LGTF? Would you still run them five times in a day?
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He's mistaken that uncommon is the least, but out of 20 runs I've only gotten common once and uncommon the most often. So you got really unlucky twice =\
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Originally Posted by Khellendrosiic
Uhh... what? I completed two BAFs today and both times I got a Common reward table. I would have been estatic if I had gotten an Uncommon.
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Adding end game is indeed a big gamble, in that, assuming it doesn't alienate some customers given they have to make a choice if they want to continue to subscribe for content not really meant for everyone.
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Originally Posted by Venture
There's too much fail to quote.
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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
And yes, I play for fun and shinies... if there were no shinies; I wouldn't waste my time and many others wouldn't and the game would fold.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I've said it before that a game without rewards is pointless, and not many people like pointless games.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
If I run out of things I want to do, without running out of things I want to have, then the game as a whole becomes too large, too daunting a task. It becomes work, and that's just what I play the game to avoid.
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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No when the reward is supposed to be there to reward particularly difficult content. Right now you CAN chase it incidentally. It's just not reasonably fast enough. The trials are still supposed to be far and away the fastest way.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Exactly my point. Chasing the brass ring should always be incidental to riding the merry-go-round. Game designers would do well to remember that. |
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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Scary isn't it?|
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
I read this, I notice Venture is sounding incredibly sensible, and then I begin to weep.
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| In this case, though, I do the two new trials once, maybe twice, and I'm already done with the new content. Any repetition being done is being done for the sake of the rewards. |
I completed the BaF trial with my Scrapper. I'm done with that content. Maybe a few months down the road I'll revisit it because my friends want to run a BaF and they could use my Scrapper's help, but repeating it with the same character for the sake of repetition? My friends formed a BaF. I brought Eva Destruction, who hadn't completed the content. We succeeded, and now I have completed this content with this character. I think I'm at around 15% of my Judgement slot unlocked.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Yeah, strange bedfellows indeed. There's something certainly off kilter when I can agree with Samuel Tow, Eva Destruction, and Venture at the same time.
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Originally Posted by Kailure
The difference between the trials and the LGTF is that the LGTF is played the same way as the other 95% of the game in which everyone sits in a warehouse pounding their fists while you go at your own leisurely pace with little chance of failing.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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That's not quite a fair question because the reward structure of the LGTF, indeed ALL TF's, ask you to run it only once a day.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Ok, so you legitimately like the mechanics of the trials. Ok. It doesn't answer the question though: Do you like them enough that you would run them over and over if they gave the same rewards as the LGTF gives right now?
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"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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That's a sure sign of insanity or the apocalypse . . . or both.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Yeah, strange bedfellows indeed. There's something certainly off kilter when I can agree with Samuel Tow, Eva Destruction, and Venture at the same time.
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50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
On a break between trials, still having a ball. Several trials leagues running simultaneously here on Justice. Challenge goals (like no prisoners escaping) getting easier and easier. Multiple people with multiple level shifts already. Grind nowhere to be found.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Hint: grinding is found in your first sentence.
| On a break between trials, still having a ball. Several trials leagues running simultaneously here on Justice. Challenge goals (like no prisoners escaping) getting easier and easier. Multiple people with multiple level shifts already. Grind nowhere to be found. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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The fact is that if you're running the trials multiple times, it is a grind. Now, whether or not you enjoy the grind is another question. I have two t3's and one t2 slotted up and overall have been enjoying myself.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Grind nowhere to be found.
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I do think the incarnate trials should be the fastest way to gain incarnate powers/rewards, it makes sense. However, compared to how the alpha slot was setup, I do believe they took a step backwards. There are 4 times the incarnate slots and way less content to do in order to get these new slots in a reasonable amount of time. I think adding the option for threads to drop in regular content at a reduced rate will go a long way.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
I have to agree with the original poster. The new trials are cool because they're new, but they would be better as one-group trials.
Big raid groups are much more of a giant mess of people spamming powers; you can do much more tactical and interesting things with a single group.
I haven't seen a BAF fail since the first day. You've got tanks taunting the AVs and getting 5 people sequestered. You've got tanks and controllers locking down and taunting adds off in the boonies instead of bringing them to the AOE field of death around the AVs to die for free. People lying on the ground instead of going to the hospital. Then you power through it and win anyway.
I do much prefer fighting with a single team to a giant horde.
I might be the special case here - most of my Trial runs are filled with my buddies. But then again after 7 years of playing this game, it's kind of hard to not make that many friends to play with. 
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Elfis, you honestly sound like you've been lucky. I've been on BAFs that ranged from mindwasheds escaping everywhere to 9CUs overwhelming people to defeating the AVs with 14 seconds left on the timer and right up to the MO requirements being met.
I like the new trials. They give me the same jolt of "ohshi-" as the Abandoned Sewer Trial (which has been my favourite team activity pretty much since I got to try it out) - that need to work to-bloody-gether or actually have consequences beyond "Oh, uhm, hosp, use more insps, go!", and I like leading these sort of things. There's a purpose to dishing out strategy and a beauty to a large group of people working together that very much appeals to me.
I do not like the progression in the shinies, though. I've been going a tad mad with the grind on my main so I could be done with the "I wanna say I finished it" - then I realized what very rares cost. Well eff.
Just look at my "shopping list" for what I'm still lacking (with two rares and two uncommons slotted)...
Clarion Partial Core Invocation
Biomorphic Goo / Common / 20 Threads
Nanotech Growth Medium / Common / 20 Threads
Ancient Texts / Rare / 8 e-merits/luck
Warworks Partial Core Improved Ally
Arcane Cantrip / Common / 20 Threads
Enchanted Sand / Common / 20 Threads
Ancient Texts / Rare / 8 e-merits/luck
Void Radial Final Judgement
Void Partial Core Judgement / Ability / Crafting
Void Core Judgement / Ability / Crafting
Void Judgement / Ability / Crafting
Genomic Analysis / Common / 20 Threads
Enchanted Sand / Common / 20 Threads
Arcane Cantrip / Common / 20 Threads
Detailed Reports / Common / 20 Threads
Arcane Cantrip / Common / 20 Threads
Worn Spellbook / Uncommon / 60 Threads
Genomic Analysis / Common / 20 Threads
Semi-Conscious Enegy / Rare / 8 e-merits/luck
Nanotech Growth / Common / 20 Threads
Meditation Techniques / Common / 20 Threads
Forbidden Technique / Very Rare / 30 e-merits/insanity
Won't be bothering with very rares for more than one of the four if they remain that costly. The raids, though. Fun and shiny. Limited doses probably preferable, but fun they are (imo).
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Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
The fact is that if you're running the trials multiple times, it is a grind. Now, whether or not you enjoy the grind is another question. I have two t3's and one t2 slotted up and overall have been enjoying myself.
I do think the incarnate trials should be the fastest way to gain incarnate powers/rewards, it makes sense. However, compared to how the alpha slot was setup, I do believe they took a step backwards. There are 4 times the incarnate slots and way less content to do in order to get these new slots in a reasonable amount of time. I think adding the option for threads to drop in regular content at a reduced rate will go a long way.
In total agreement here, btw.
Honestly, there's not much grinding involved in this. I'd have gotten my Rare Destiny slot in less than three days were it not for the maintainance thing.
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."