Multi-group content is not the way.


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Quasadu View Post
We had seven last night (one person quit after dying in the first spawn) and we would have succeeded if we'd had 5 more seconds. Marauder's health bar was so low it looked empty. And this was with a PUG, not a seasoned group that plays together all the time.
Well then, I'm suitably convinced that a casual team of 8 can fill out all the incarnate slots at a decent speed.

And if a team of 8 isn't considered casual then casuals have been getting screwed over for a while now.

And I don't even feel right using the word 'casual' in this context, these 'raids' are incredibly casual already.


 

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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
This kinda mystifies me when I see it.

Mostly because most people I've seen say something like this mean it along the lines of: I'm not super unless I can crush any opposition to me with no effort at all.
Typically when my response is "I don't feel super," it's not because I can't juggle planets, but rather because I get lost in the crowd. I could say a lot on the subject, but I feel Z says it best.

Personally, I find an individual's achievement against the odds in situations where there is no-one left to help and nothing to rely on but yourself. Large mash pit wars don't feel "epic" to me. They just feel messy, impersonal and uninteresting.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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I think the raids are fine overall, but I completely agree with this sentiment:

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Originally Posted by Kiken View Post
If every piece of Incarnate content that comes after is the same, though, then I'll not be so impressed.
C&E, regarding this:

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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
This kinda mystifies me when I see it.

Mostly because most people I've seen say something like this mean it along the lines of: I'm not super unless I can crush any opposition to me with no effort at all.
I know I want non-trial, solo or normal team incarnate content. And I want it to be challenging and push me to the limit.


City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.

R.I.P.
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Posted

As said before...this is war..not some pansy as5 ****** of a AV trying to conquer a town or murder a hero. i like the new system..adds more to the game


 

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Originally Posted by HardRider View Post
As said before...this is war..not some pansy as5 ****** of a AV trying to conquer a town or murder a hero. i like the new system..adds more to the game
Truth... but I look forward to there being more variety in our gameplay options for our incarnates.


City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.

R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous

 

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Originally Posted by AmazingMOO View Post
'Teams' top out at around 7-8 folks for me before faces start blending into a crowd. The Five Man Band is PERFECT for having every person stand out yet still be a team.
This.

The more people you have, the less anyone stands out. You become less a super hero and more a faceless grunt army that's part of an invasion force. Being 'Buffer #13' versus being 'the guy who turned the tide'. Being 'the fourth tank who takes turns with the seven others' vs 'the guy who diverted the ambush and kept everyone from wiping'.

Super heroes stand out. When the Hulk shows up to a fight, it means something. If there are 20 other Hulks there already, it doesn't mean much at all. These trials are designed so that you're not allowed to stand out, and they're balanced so that if you try to, you get smacked down. The only person allowed to 'stand out' is the raid leader who gets off on barking orders at strangers via pre-made binds.



.


 

Posted

I understand but yet I don't...

In a group of 12, 24 or 36 people sure you might feel "small" or "get lost" in all of it but....you never felt that way in an 8 man team? Or even a 5 man team?

I've felt "small" in all 3 circumstances.

Ever play a stalker in a team that steamrolls through things and by the time your AS goes off the mob is either dead or it wasn't necessary to use AS to begin with? Sorry had to

If you don't like the new content, that's fine...put your 2 cents in (you did) and move along. I'm sure (hoping too) that the devs will be putting in new content in the next issue(s) for solo'ers and/or small teams to get threads/components/etc....we just have to wait and see.

I like this new content even though I have only been in one Trial so far due to my play time limits.


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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
...

The more people you have, the less anyone stands out. You become less a super hero and more a faceless grunt army that's part of an invasion force. Being 'Buffer #13' versus being 'the guy who turned the tide'. Being 'the fourth tank who takes turns with the seven others' vs 'the guy who diverted the ambush and kept everyone from wiping'.
...

And part of the issue is just human nature...people want to stand out...heaven forbid we all just work together as a team and win as a team.


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Originally Posted by Kailure View Post
Lambda Sector can be started with a normal team of 8 people. As for whether or not it can actually be completed, I haven't tried it very many times or even finished it once, but the only time I came incredibly close to finishing it we had eight.
During beta, I heard of a 7-person team, not even all of whom were 50(+1), successfully completing a Lambda trial. I'll be dipped if I know how they did it. (That being said, they were not a PuG.)


 

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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion View Post
And part of the issue is just human nature...people want to stand out...heaven forbid we all just work together as a team and win as a team.
Yeah


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

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Originally Posted by HardRider View Post
As said before...this is war..not some pansy as5 ****** of a AV trying to conquer a town or murder a hero. i like the new system..adds more to the game
Yes but war also makes use of much smaller commando units to strike at targets as well as larger companies of men. There is plenty of room for normal team sized content and still keeping the 'war' theme.


 

Posted

I really really wish people would actually read the damn OP before making snarky "You don't want to team" and "you want everything now" comments. How any of you manage to succeed at these trials when you so obviously fail at reading comprehension is beyond me.

I agree with what MOO said, and what worries me is I also agree with Johnny Butane, although I probably dislike multi-team content for entirely different reasons. In a single team, it's not just the unkillable tank that can turn the tide of the battle. It's also the Defender that makes the tank unkillable, or the Scrapper that pulls that extra bit of aggro off everybody, or anybody else doing their job and using their powers effectively instead of mindlessly mashing buttons.


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Posted

I disagree. I want more multi team content. I love the trails so far.


 

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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano View Post
Yes but war also makes use of much smaller commando units to strike at targets as well as larger companies of men. There is plenty of room for normal team sized content and still keeping the 'war' theme.
Like the new TF's?


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion View Post
And part of the issue is just human nature...people want to stand out...heaven forbid we all just work together as a team and win as a team.
Um yeah, except the two aren't mutually exclusive when everyone has their role on a team and can stand out while helping the team.


Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

Posted

yes but the new TFs aren't Incarnate content, they're regular content.

So you can have the Incarnate Praetoria War content with just a single team or even solo, now it doesn't have to skimp on the challenge, infact it shouldn't.

Edit: Unless you meant the new trials, of which only the Lambda is minimum 8 people and that's not going to happen unless the team is really, really good or people have got both of their Incarnate level shifts.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano View Post
yes but the new TFs aren't Incarnate content, they're regular content.

So you can have the Incarnate Praetoria War content with just a single team or even solo, now it doesn't have to skimp on the challenge, infact it shouldn't.
The Sutler TF clearly takes place in the context of the Praetorian War.


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

Posted

I kind of like new trials, it is a change of pace. It adds a little spice to the game. But I do agree I hope they don't over do it. Because then it becomes a norm, and that could be bad.

Lambda I think is best option, 1 full team min. but a max of 2. Good for that odd time when there are a couple more people than a full team that want in.


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Originally Posted by Defenestrator View Post
Not to mention "Infinity Gauntlet" or any of the other Thanos Infinity books. Or "Secret Wars."
Bad analogy.

The BAF is not the Infinity Gauntlet. The BAF would only be one subplot in one issue of a miniseries titled 'Incarnates: The Praetorian War'.

In those giant crossover events, you didn't have every hero in the same place fighting together at the same time the whole time. They broke into smaller teams or pairs, that way everyone got face time. Smaller teams doesn't mean 24-32 people.

And even when they were all together, each character got their moment to shine. Hulk got to hold up a mountain. Captain America got to tell off Thanos. The Flash got to make the ultimate sacrifice. Superman restarted the universe. Batman killed Darksied


.


 

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I would like to see Incarnate tip mission that drop from incarnate content (trials or within the missions) I'd like to see them drop threads and maybe offer one of the new merits on completion of an arc (Maybe in place of a H/V merit)

Missions like:
"Black Scorpion has taken down Sister Psyche and Manticore please rescue them from Grandville"
"Valkyrie has been defeated by Sirocco, and he has taken Excalibur please recover it"
"Neutron Bombs are about to scourge Alaska of life, please save them"

The sort of things that would usually end a TF or arc with. Incarnates should be able to do those as missions. and it would give a passable method of solo progress


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
Bad analogy.

The BAF is not the Infinity Gauntlet. The BAF would only be one subplot in one issue of a miniseries titled 'Incarnates: The Praetorian War'.

In those giant crossover events, you didn't have every hero in the same place fighting together at the same time the whole time. They broke into smaller teams or pairs, that way everyone got face time. Smaller teams doesn't mean 24-32 people.

And even when they were all together, each character got their moment to shine. Hulk got to hold up a mountain. Captain America got to tell off Thanos. The Flash got to make the ultimate sacrifice. Superman restarted the universe. Batman killed Darksied


.
And all that happens in trials. Like the last BAF where Ms. Flaming's barrier saved our bacons from those AC9's, or Comrade SMERSH cracked that hilarious joke against Siege.


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
And all that happens in trials. Like the last BAF where Ms. Flaming's barrier saved our bacons from those AC9's, or Comrade SMERSH cracked that hilarious joke against Siege.

The Batman one didn't, it happened in another mission with no back up.


Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
Um yeah, except the two aren't mutually exclusive when everyone has their role on a team and can stand out while helping the team.

You don't think the Trials do that? The League is made up of teams; so you can still do your part on your team! Your team will know what you did (if it was 'awesome'/helpful/etc...)...so what am I missing?


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Posted

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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
The Batman one didn't, it happened in another mission with no back up.
Or that time when this one stalker (whose name I forgot... Ninja somethign) snuck in and took care of three crates on his own.


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
Bad analogy.

...
And even when they were all together, each character got their moment to shine. Hulk got to hold up a mountain. Captain America got to tell off Thanos. The Flash got to make the ultimate sacrifice. Superman restarted the universe. Batman killed Darksied...

And we don't get that now how? In the league/team you're in, if you're the healer, you heal your teammates to keep 'em alive, the scrapper gets the extra bit of aggro or takes out some peeps, the tanker keeps the AV on him, etc..., etc...


Or did you mean you want a big animation/power that says, "X player just won this for everyone! We're so glad to have X person in the League!"

Maybe if there was some sort of message/pop-up after the Trial was done saying, "X person healed this much/rez'ed y many people, A person killed this many mobs/etc..." people wouldn't be so hard on this? *shrugs*


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