Multi-group content is not the way.


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Repetitive activity in MMOs is grinding. If you enjoy it, de gustibus non whatever and all that but it's still grinding.


Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

 

Posted

Think about all this constant, hyperbolic, complaining about 1/2 of one issue. It's easy to denounce people who are having fun.

It's much harder to understand your feelings about people who are happy about Issue 20.


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
Repetitive activity in MMOs is grinding. If you enjoy it, de gustibus non whatever and all that but it's still grinding.
Logging in more than once could be considered "grinding" by your definition.

Better stop playing. You've been grinding for years.


Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.

 

Posted

Now see I like the more intimate maneuvering of the abandoned sewer trial and such. The more players you have, the more the fight becomes a zerg.


 

Posted

Quote:
Think about all this constant, hyperbolic, complaining about 1/2 of one issue. It's easy to denounce people who are having fun.
It's not half an issue. It's the focus of the issue and the start of a major change in the game's direction. The TFs are crumbs.


Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
It's not half an issue. It's the focus of the issue and the start of a major change in the game's direction. The TFs are crumbs.
The focus of the issue is Incarnates and the war against the Praetorians. Both the two trials and the two TFs deal with that. The only new maps created for this issue belong to...wait for it...the TF you call a crumb.

There's no change in direction. It's an expansion of a content path (multi-group encounters) that has laid fallow since Issue 10. It's long overdue and welcome from where I'm sitting.


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

Quote:
There's no change in direction. It's an expansion of a content path (multi-group encounters) that has laid fallow since Issue 10. It's long overdue and welcome from where I'm sitting.
All indications are that the next issue and possibly the one after will be much the same as this one, so you're being disingenuous.


Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
All indications are that the next issue and possibly the one after will be much the same as this one
Well, they've said they'd like to add at least one Trial per Issue, so this is going to last way longer than 2 more Issues


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

This isn't quite a new direction for this game - multi team content has been a part of it since before i started playing with the establishment of the Hami Raid. I'm actually not sure when zone events began to occur, but you could probably make the assertation that it started then (if they came before Hami Raids either way, which one came first isn't all that important, just that it came well before now is).

i9 revamped Hami and made it not quite so awful, and i10 expanded on multi team content by adding the MSR.

On a somewhat lesser scale, multi team content has been around since the advent of GM's, which I believe were in the game at launch. You will notice that with the exclusion of Hami, and MSR, most multi team content isn't run all that often before i20. The reward structure, save for Hami Raids, and even, possibly, MSR's since it dropped V-Merits faster than anything else, did not incentivize anyone to play them. GM's took comparatively long to drop for the XP/Inf that they give, and they didn't drop anything better than a badge. If you had the badge, or don't care about badges, there was no reason to engage in that content.

Zone events were worse. If you outlevel them the don't even drop XP/inf. The reason why Hami and MSR's are some of the most popular multi team content is, I would venture to say, based soley on the fact that it rewards you in a way that is commensurate with the time you've spent on it. In the case of Hami, in fact, it was the ONLY way to get those drops until i9 when they introduced the STF.

Multi Team content isn't new, and because of that it isn't a new direction for CoH to be going in. The only difference is that they've tied multi team content into by far and away the easiest way to gain and slot further incarnate powers. Even that isn't a new direction for this game to take since the only way to get Hami O's for a long time WAS multi team content. Yes you could trade them/buy them, but the ONLY way to generate them was multiteam content. But doing so without a market was difficult, and since it was likely the only thing you were spending your influence on I can imagine Hami O's on a server's black market (NOT the auction house, an actual black market) were probably quite expensive.

The only supposed new direction that this game is taking is with tying the easiest method of incarnate progression to multi team content, but even in a less obvious way CoH has been tying the easiest method of character progression to team content since i9 since the inclusion of IO's. In doing so, however, they've also finally shown that they're willing to develop multi team content to a more full potential, which really hadn't been done since the inclusion of multi team content.

Ultimately I would argue that the new direction for the game is incarnate content and not multi team raids. Those have been there since the beginning - they're just now finally actually being developed.

I'm not really trying to argue anything here, other than I've seen a lot of people talking as if this is some kind of new direction. I don't think it is, at least not in the way you're arguing.


"Be a beacon?"

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Posted

Quote:
This isn't quite a new direction for this game - multi team content has been a part of it since before i started playing with the establishment of the Hami Raid.
Hamidon raids were the only thing that gave anything meaningful you couldn't get elsewhere (at the time), and what they gave wasn't that important, particularly after ED. The new trials are a whole different kettle of fish.


Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
Hamidon raids were the only thing that gave anything meaningful you couldn't get elsewhere (at the time), and what they gave wasn't that important, particularly after ED. The new trials are a whole different kettle of fish.
Pool C recipes.

Pool D recipes.

For the longest time, until they introduced merit rewards.

And anyway my point is, I'm not sure you can say that finally tying substantial rewards to a multi team structure is a bad direction for the dev team to go with multi team content. Yes, it has to be fun, and yes, it should be done because its fun. But TF's aren't just done because they're fun. They're done because they give substantial rewards. Multi Team content, up until this point in the game, were not only some of the hardest to put together, but they were also some of the LEAST rewarded content.


"Be a beacon?"

Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
The focus of the issue is Incarnates and the war against the Praetorians. Both the two trials and the two TFs deal with that. The only new maps created for this issue belong to...wait for it...the TF you call a crumb.
Actually the villain SF has nothing to do with Praetoria.


 

Posted

Pool C and D recipes came from single-group encounters.


Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
All indications are that the next issue and possibly the one after will be much the same as this one, so you're being disingenuous.
You have a problem with each new issue having a new TF and a new SF?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
Pool C and D recipes came from single-group encounters.
My point is that they've gated this stuff to team encounters before. No reason they can't do it again.

And when Lambda can be done by an 8 man group your argument kind of falls apart. Lambda can be multi team content. It doesn't have to be.


"Be a beacon?"

Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
You have a problem with each new issue having a new TF and a new SF?
I'm starting to wonder what Venture likes about this game.


"Be a beacon?"

Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
All indications are that the next issue and possibly the one after will be much the same as this one, so you're being disingenuous.
And you're being overly dramatic to assume that what's coming next will be NOTHING but more Praetoria and Incarnate stuff.

The truth is no one knows what's really coming down but the Devs. Yes, it's safe to assume we'll be getting more Incarnates, but beyond that is anyone's guess, and there will be more, because every Issue has had more than one focus to it.


Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scythus View Post
Actually the villain SF has nothing to do with Praetoria.
I almost didn't respond, but I didn't say that the issue was all about Praetoria, I said it was all about "Incarnates and the war with the Praetorians." IIRC, the Kal TF is all about villains trying to get some of the Well power for themselves.


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning View Post

And anyway my point is, I'm not sure you can say that finally tying substantial rewards to a multi team structure is a bad direction for the dev team to go with multi team content. Yes, it has to be fun, and yes, it should be done because its fun. But TF's aren't just done because they're fun. They're done because they give substantial rewards. Multi Team content, up until this point in the game, were not only some of the hardest to put together, but they were also some of the LEAST rewarded content.
Speaking of this sort of stuff, how many usually run the signature TFs because they're fun? I groan a little bit every time I realise I have a character I wanna run through Citadel's for the accolade. D:


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoph View Post
[SIZE=1]
Speaking of this sort of stuff, how many usually run the signature TFs because they're fun? I groan a little bit every time I realise I have a character I wanna run through Citadel's for the accolade. D:
Truth. I genuinely enjoy running BAF and Lambda. I run Citadel for 5% HP.


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash View Post
And you're being overly dramatic to assume that what's coming next will be NOTHING but more Praetoria and Incarnate stuff.

The truth is no one knows what's really coming down but the Devs. Yes, it's safe to assume we'll be getting more Incarnates, but beyond that is anyone's guess, and there will be more, because every Issue has had more than one focus to it.
You know what I found funny? When I20 was still in Beta, I complained that the Issue seemed to be nothing but forced team content. People called me names and insisted "But we don't know!" Come I20, it's all forced team content.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. "We don't know" no longer holds any meaning to me as an argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Did an ITF (22 mins I think) and an STF (44 mins) and just melted all of the opposition. No "healers", no debuffers for both of em'. That was fun!

Honestly, we weren't even trying for a "best time" kind of run. Just plain having fun and destroying enemies in our path.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Come I20, it's all forced team content.
I keep missing these devs putting a gun to my head to make me play.


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning View Post
I'm starting to wonder what Venture likes about this game.
Venture likes to complain and criticize. The game and this forum give him plenty of material.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
You know what I found funny? When I20 was still in Beta, I complained that the Issue seemed to be nothing but forced team content. People called me names and insisted "But we don't know!" Come I20, it's all forced team content.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. "We don't know" no longer holds any meaning to me as an argument.
When the issue page is put up "we don't know" is a rather silly argument. But seeing as I haven't seen a post as to what I21 will be about yet...