The I20 Incarnates Grind: Am I Missing the Point of Resurrecting My 50?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-04-05 17:51 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I feel you man.
I did some back of the envelope calculations, and it looks like getting the very rare in a single new incarnate slot will take about 2000 threads, and a billion influence. Even assuming threads drop 5x as often as shards did, that's 4 times as much work as getting the very rare alpha slot was. And getting the very rare in the alpha slot was no walk in the park.
And we don't even have a large variety of content to run to get these like we did with the alpha slot. We just have to run the same two trials over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
And from the one I attempted earlier tonight they're not even that fun. I took my purpled out, softcapped fire/sr scrapper into the lambda sector trial, and died at least 5 times in the first 15 minutes.
I finally checked out the combat logs to find out "oh hey, instead of being floored at 5%, these guys have over a 30% chance to hit me"
So instead of giving me awesome new content that makes me feel like my character is a superhero, the devs give me a long repetitive grind that invalidates the several billion influence worth of IOs that I spent several months earning the money for.
Thanks Devs!
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Yes, because adding an issue of content that doesn't personally excite you 100% is totally the same as a guy who replaced carburetors with live Cambodian babies just for a laugh.| Sorry for the whine; today's content update made me feel like Jack Emmert was put back in charge of the game - and it ******* terrified me! |
That's right, I counteracted your hyperbole about resurrecting with resurrected hyperbole.
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King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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Originally Posted by Rubberlad
I20 Incarnates content: its over-complicated, uber grindy, extremely repetitive, and insanely costly for its conversion fees (I'm still trying to afford purples - now this?!!).
Not sure a casual player like me can pull this off on a regular basis - and I say that after having just beat my 50's head against the wall on the Lambda Sector trial. Am I supposed to pull it off at all? I want to feel the epicness of the new Incarnate content but all I feel is a very painful grind that I never want to attempt again. Don't get me wrong, I'll definitely give it another try this weekend but if this ends up being limited content that *has* to be grinded over multiple hours daily just to get somewhere, I'm probably going to consider the Alpha slot my stopping point for all lvl 50 toons in future. Sorry for the whine; today's content update made me feel like Jack Emmert was put back in charge of the game - and it ******* terrified me! This is the first time in a long time that I felt a major content feature wasn't accessible to me (Introducing PvP Arenas was the last time and look what happened there). And I was so looking forward to taking my 50 to the next level (sigh). Back to Atlas Park... and a long wait for Issue 21. |
OH MY GOD. This is exactly how I feel about i20 and the incarnate content. yes everyone wanted a way to increase your characters powers and we've now got it, but it's completely over complicated and far too involving and just confuses the hell out of me. it makes very little sense in terms of how you build your character to level 50.
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
/grabs popcorn
Well, this has been known for a while that this is what Issue 20 brings. Now, if many didn't want to believe, then they have the access to issue 20 currently to see for themselves.
Maybe it gets better when you have 2 level shifts? 
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I will admit the system looks ridiculously grindy primarily for one thing which I absolutely despise.
The luck based table reward system.
Basically if you're unlucky you have to grind your backside off to get the very rare and play the 2 trials an ungodly number of times, if you're lucky you probably have to play the trial 10 times at most to unlock the very rare.
The Alpha system was pretty much fair for everybody who could run the same content, yes Shards were a bit random but not to the level of the trial reward table
After a dozen Trials, I have yet to even see a reward table.
The best comics are still 10�!
My City of Heroes Blog Freedom Feature Article: "Going Rageless?"
If you only read one guide this year, make it this one.
Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
WARNING: I bold names.
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Slightly. |
Originally Posted by Daemodand
Maybe it gets better when you have 2 level shifts?
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The key to remember is that repetition of successful runs is paramount now. If the two trials are not learned properly you probably can never complete them reasonably.
The learning curve IMVHO is steep but plateaus afterwords.
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Yep, this is called raid content, folks. There's the learning stage where failure will be constant, there's the stage where you finally get the raid done, and then you sit back and farm rewards if you so choose.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Slightly.
The key to remember is that repetition of successful runs is paramount now. If the two trials are not learned properly you probably can never complete them reasonably. The learning curve IMVHO is steep but plateaus afterwords. |
Now, we can argue about whether or not this is a good thing (and this argument has been happening for months) but this is how the content works.
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Virtue (red) - Jess The Best
@Razoras
Quote:
You summed it up nicely.|
Originally Posted by Razoras
Yep, this is called raid content, folks. There's the learning stage where failure will be constant, there's the stage where you finally get the raid done, and then you sit back and farm rewards if you so choose.
Now, we can argue about whether or not this is a good thing (and this argument has been happening for months) but this is how the content works. |
That is how raid content is designed, as you gear up the encounter becomes easier because it is designed with the gear in mind. But, there is a concern for how that newly acquired gear can be invalidated for new raid content to make room for the new gear.
As long as this remains "Baby's first raid" style content, CoH-style, I'm cool with it. But even my voice will be raised if we start seeing WoW-style raids where PuGs are basically never going to have a chance.
My Going Rogue Trailer
Virtue (blue) - Wes The Mess
Virtue (red) - Jess The Best
@Razoras
Tried the BAF (once) and Lamda (twice- before crashing) last night with my purped out 50+ Fire/Rad troller. Ate copious amounts of floor on both, but the BAF was definitely more brutal and annoying. Plus I couldn't see a damn thing- is it supposed to be eternally 3 am at the BAF?
Yeah, it DEFINITELY feels grindy. Like the CoH of old. It wiffs of Statesman, to be sure.
My marks:
BAF: C-
Tedious cut scene of talking heads, offset ever so slightly by Mother Mayhem's cleavage. Too dark outside. At least the hospital is in-zone. The door lock nonsense is annoying and unnecessary.
LAMBDA: C+
At least I can see what's going on, and being able to go into the facility switches up the scenery a little. Same notes on the hospital.
LFG tab: B-
I like the idea behind it, but the execution is very wanting. Teams get shoved out under-full, and it seems hard to coordinate and meet up with friends and SG mates. Still, a step in the right direction.
LEAGUE interface: C-
Ugly, with tiny names (maybe my monitor just sucks) and not keeping in the graphic aesthetic of the rest of the game. I feel like I'm trying to read an Excel spreadsheet or read the credits from Problem Solverz.
HELPERS: A-
Great idea to promote one of the greatest strengths of this game- the sense of community and support.
What's really sad is eventually people are going to develop a some cunning tactics that make both trials easier and smoother, and when teams regularly plow through, the Devs will respond by making them harder.
More speed bumps to keep the mice from the cheese.
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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That's a very good description of Lambda. The game is pushing back a bit folks on this content. It gets easier. If you really don't feel like you can handle it come back in two weeks once others have built up their slots and know the strategies. Listen to them and you'll do fine.
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Originally Posted by Razoras
As long as this remains "Baby's first raid" style content, CoH-style, I'm cool with it. But even my voice will be raised if we start seeing WoW-style raids where PuGs are basically never going to have a chance.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Ugh. I think it says something if running them ten times is the quick option.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
if you're lucky you probably have to play the trial 10 times at most to unlock the very rare.
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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In a few weeks, people will be running Lambda and BAF together in less than an hour.
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
Ugh. I think it says something if running them ten times is the quick option.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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It requires luck for ten times to be the minimum.
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
Ugh. I think it says something if running them ten times is the quick option.
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Quote:
Actually you will get a rare with eight successful runs. I know people want their very rares, but they really need to start looking at that as a long term goal.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
It requires luck for ten times to be the minimum.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Quote:
Pretty much this. I define any option where having to repeat the same action "only" ten times is considered lucky as grind classic.
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
Ugh. I think it says something if running them ten times is the quick option.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Quote:
Eight consecutive, successful runs is highly unlikely, and ten is any different IMVHO.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Actually you will get a rare with eight successful runs. I know people want their very rares, but they really need to start looking at that as a long term goal.
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Based on the failure rate of what is being described, 16 runs is more likely (failure rate of 50%).
2 Lamda's. One success. Unlocked Interface. Justice 78% unlocked. Got close to 30 Threads. 3 merits. 1 Purple. Both Lamda's were less than 45 minutes. So, 3 hours. And I'm by no means a hardcore player.
The doom is way over rated people. If I can do it (and feel free to ask around if I'm any good at this game, I'm not), anyone can.
This is the most casual end game content on the planet.
Quote:
Well it is not like Lineage 2 grind, but the road is being paved for that direction. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Pretty much this. I define any option where having to repeat the same action "only" ten times is considered lucky as grind classic.
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Quote:
So i guess you avoid all the "Kill x number of mobs" missions....
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Pretty much this. I define any option where having to repeat the same action "only" ten times is considered lucky as grind classic.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
So i guess you avoid all the "Kill x number of mobs" missions....
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I used to play FFXI and even I find this on the grindy side of things.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Quote:
You get at least 10 threads for winning a trial, more if you convert your astral/empyreal merits. And you get components too (I got 2 uncommons, but you can get a rare)
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Originally Posted by firespray
I feel you man.
I did some back of the envelope calculations, and it looks like getting the very rare in a single new incarnate slot will take about 2000 threads, and a billion influence. Even assuming threads drop 5x as often as shards did, that's 4 times as much work as getting the very rare alpha slot was. And getting the very rare in the alpha slot was no walk in the park. And we don't even have a large variety of content to run to get these like we did with the alpha slot. We just have to run the same two trials over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. And from the one I attempted earlier tonight they're not even that fun. I took my purpled out, softcapped fire/sr scrapper into the lambda sector trial, and died at least 5 times in the first 15 minutes. I finally checked out the combat logs to find out "oh hey, instead of being floored at 5%, these guys have over a 30% chance to hit me" So instead of giving me awesome new content that makes me feel like my character is a superhero, the devs give me a long repetitive grind that invalidates the several billion influence worth of IOs that I spent several months earning the money for. Thanks Devs! |
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
I20 Incarnates content: its over-complicated, uber grindy, extremely repetitive, and insanely costly for its conversion fees (I'm still trying to afford purples - now this?!!).
Not sure a casual player like me can pull this off on a regular basis - and I say that after having just beat my 50's head against the wall on the Lambda Sector trial. Am I supposed to pull it off at all? I want to feel the epicness of the new Incarnate content but all I feel is a very painful grind that I never want to attempt again. Don't get me wrong, I'll definitely give it another try this weekend but if this ends up being limited content that *has* to be grinded over multiple hours daily just to get somewhere, I'm probably going to consider the Alpha slot my stopping point for all lvl 50 toons in future.
Sorry for the whine; today's content update made me feel like Jack Emmert was put back in charge of the game - and it ******* terrified me! This is the first time in a long time that I felt a major content feature wasn't accessible to me (Introducing PvP Arenas was the last time and look what happened there). And I was so looking forward to taking my 50 to the next level (sigh). Back to Atlas Park... and a long wait for Issue 21.