Why Hollywood??? Thor Spoiler and DOOM!
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2011-03-07 10:02 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Actually once you get to a sufficiently advanced level of tech you should be able to rewrite the laws of physics. At least in a controlled area. For this we are talking about working with Planc level forces or sub quark level. But once you can work at that level you should be able to change the rules to suit you.
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
Technology no matter how advanced must obey the laws of physics. Magic, were it real, would be capable of breaking the laws of physics.
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But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
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Originally Posted by gameboy1234
Pfft.
Two words: Battlestar Galactica. |
^^^This
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Originally Posted by Fritzdog
Odin is Thors Father and Gaea The Earth Goddess is his mother. I think that gives him god status.
While he has been called an alien in Earth X, that is an alternate Earth and hes never been called an alien in Marvel 616 proper. (as far as I know) I understand the parallels between gods and aliens but calling him an alien just feels like it makes him....smaller somehow. Maybe its just me and whats done is done but I'm certainly disappointed. |
i get your angst over this situation, but i think you should try this out. first; define what a "god" is....... especially an ancient non-monotheistic, non-all powerful "god". second; consider the option that all "gods" are but "aliens" regardless of magic/tech, as they are not human, and didn't originate on earth. i think your biggest issue is with an arbitrary delineation you have in your head about what a "god" is and what an "alien" is. this is not an accusatory or inflammatory statement, just a request that you maybe look at this from a different perspective and hopefully, it will quell some of the anger you seem to have over the origins of this make believe character.
Oh yeah, that was the time that girl got her whatchamacallit stuck in that guys dooblickitz and then what his name did that thing with the lizards and it cleared right up.
screw your joke, i want "FREEM"
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Every time someone says something like this, or pulls out the "any sufficiently advanced technology..." line, I always think "hmm... so because fuschia is somewhat reddish, it must be red. There is no difference."
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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
What, functionally, is the difference between an alien whose technology makes them appear godlike and a god?
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Est sularis oth Mithas
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^^^^^ This!. (Jaffa! Kree!)|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Secondly, one word: Stargate. |
p.s. The Gou'auld and the Tok'ra concepts seem to fit perfectly for Kheldians. and we all know about General Hammond in FBZ.
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Except then the webs should be shooting from Spidey's butt, like Spinnerette. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
That said...well, if people thought Spidey was better off with Organic Web Shooters to be more believable, I see no reason why they couldnt get behind Thor being an alien.
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Fuchsia is a purplish-red color.|
Originally Posted by Arnabas
Every time someone says something like this, or pulls out the "any sufficiently advanced technology..." line, I always think "hmm... so because fuschia is somewhat reddish, it must be red. There is no difference."
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Fuschia is not a word.
Thor is the Norse god of thunder.
Hollywood sux.
My opinion.
Except the first two.
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Bah. Typo. You know what I meant.
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Originally Posted by mousedroid
Fuchsia is a purplish-red color.
Fuschia is not a word. Thor is the Norse god of thunder. Hollywood sux. My opinion. Except the first two. |
Est sularis oth Mithas
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You don't like purplish-red?
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Originally Posted by Arnabas
Bah. Typo. You know what I meant.
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i make stuff...
Screw it, if the movie rocks, it rocks! I have to live knowing Iron Man's movie armor could probably be cut in half by a drunk taking a hot wiz with its titanium-gold alloy 
but hell I enjoyed both movies so much I can overlook that silly detail.
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[citation needed]
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Originally Posted by TerraDraconis
Actually once you get to a sufficiently advanced level of tech you should be able to rewrite the laws of physics. At least in a controlled area. For this we are talking about working with Planc level forces or sub quark level. But once you can work at that level you should be able to change the rules to suit you.
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bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth ur-
nuk!
This reminds me of that one time. When I ran into Zeus under Atlas. Boy was I freaking out! What should I say? How's my breath? Do I look okay? But then, The Real Zeus came walking up out of nowhere, and put his fists on his hips, and just stood there. And I wasn't sure about anything in this world, ever again.
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Quite a few discussions of theoretical physics I've read over the years. Basically the assumption, and yes it is an assumption is that once you get to manipulating small enough elements of the universe you can directly manipulate the so called laws. At least potentially in the small scale. |
Originally Posted by james_joyce
[citation needed]
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A lot of science fiction has taken this and run with it where you see the ability to do just that. Hell a huge amount of magic could be managed just by having the right kind of nanotech everywhere and a way to control it.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
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There was an issue of the West Coast Avengers where they basically told someone on the team to stop freaking out at the thought of going up against Satannish - that it, like Dormammu and all the other 'demons' and 'gods' was really just a very powerful extradimensional extraterrestrial , not the actual devil.
I've never had a problem with this explanation because Thor, Odin, Loki, and all the rest have at one time or another gotten their butts kicked by mortal men, robots, and other aliens.
They bleed. What kind of god bleeds?
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If it bleeds we can kill it. (follows the trail of neon green colored blood.)
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In the official handbook, Thor and the other Norse gods are under the caption: Asgardians. They do consider themselves gods though
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Pretty much any non-Christian one. Earlier gods often reflected the people who worshipped them. The term "god" doesn't automatically mean omnipotent.
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Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
Ther
They bleed. What kind of god bleeds? |
Est sularis oth Mithas
Asgardians as gods: Immensely powerful, not of this planet.
Asgardians as aliens: Immensely powerful, not of this planet.
Hmm...
-np
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Actually, a deity that can bleed specifically includes the Christian God.|
Originally Posted by Arnabas
Pretty much any non-Christian one. Earlier gods often reflected the people who worshipped them. The term "god" doesn't automatically mean omnipotent.
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It's funny to note that in most mythologies, gods are tough but can and do get hurt, even die. Hence why I'd say that within comic book mythology, you can call Thor an alien all you want but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...it's still a nigh invulnerable deifi-err- extraterrestrial being that controls storms and lightning at will.
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Not exactly. But that's a discussion on the various Christian religions, and not one I really wish to get into.|
Originally Posted by Seldom
Actually, a deity that can bleed specifically includes the Christian God.
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| It's funny to note that in most mythologies, gods are tough but can and do get hurt, even die. Hence why I'd say that within comic book mythology, you can call Thor an alien all you want but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...it's still a nigh invulnerable deifi-err- extraterrestrial being that controls storms and lightning at will. |
Of course, with other super powers in line, this can change the balance, when talking about non gods, taking on gods of myth.
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Ummm do you read Thor? The "gods" are on another plain than ours. None of this is new and it is how Marvel does "gods".
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Originally Posted by Fritzdog
Bad news for Thor fans, it seem our beloved Norse God will not be a god at all in the new movie but instead will be an alien with superior technology
 Here is the sad, sad story. I was looking forward to this but it just got demoted to "wait till its on Netflix" status. I really don't mind when small changes are made to these characters but when they alter something so fundamental to the character (i.e. Thor not a god or Deadpool with no mouth, ect.) for no good reason, it just smacks of some schmuck trying to put his name on it. I can only hope that his alien origin is mentioned in passing and I can at least pretend hes the Norse god I know and love..... Shame on you Hollywood, Shame! (sorry if my nerd rage colored this post angry) |
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That's just it though... They are on another plane, a different level of existance. They are gods-- primal forces of the universe. In the movie, the implication is that they are space aliens with advanced tech. While the net result is the same, it is the tone and feel of the character that changes.|
Originally Posted by UltraTroll
Ummm do you read Thor? The "gods" are on another plain than ours. None of this is new and it is how Marvel does "gods".
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If a certain task needs to be accomplished and Doctor Strange does it by casting a spell and summoning ancient mystical energies while Reed Richards does it by building some contraption, the end result is the same. The deed gets done, but you can't say that they're the same thing.
Est sularis oth Mithas
I've read that actual comics where they call themselves gods because... they are.
Where they go back and forth from Earth to Asgard over the Rainbow Bridge. Where mystical goats draw his chariot.
This is the Marvel universe where magic exists. And magic is used to fix Thor's hammer... not advanced tech.
The usual modern scientific explanation are that gods are beings from extra-planar or parallel dimensions where the scientific laws of our plane don't apply to them.
Otherwise, could you please point to a galactic map and show me which planet is Asgard?
WRT Kirby: Kirby originally penciled Thor. He didn't actually write the plot.
Kirby tried to write a gods-as-aliens plot for DC with the New Gods, which never completed. When he went back to Marvel, he tried to recreate that kind of story with the Celestials who were battled by real gods: The Asgardians. It was a minor hijack in the Thor canon which no one else goes by.
So, no. Thor was not an advanced alien from creation as written by Kirby. That statement has all sorts of wrong in it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_%28Marvel_Comics%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_%28comics%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternals_%28comics%29
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