Why Hollywood??? Thor Spoiler and DOOM!
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2011-03-07 10:02 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Originally Posted by Zikar
Additionally, this is it's own continuity, so it can pull from any Marvel continuity it wishes, such as Ultimate, or in this case, Earth X.
This isn't a new idea to people who follow comics. |
I suppose that's a fair assessment (I really wish DC would remember that and give us Red Son), just seems that Earth X is a rather obscure place to pull from.
btw, I'm posting this from the comic store I work in mon-fri, so certainly familiar with comics
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Pfft.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Secondly, one word: Stargate.
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Two words: Battlestar Galactica.
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This. What essentially made the Asgardians gods was that people worshipped them as such. In modern times, where the vast majority of people on Earth have consigned polytheism in general and the Norse belief system in particular to the dustbin of academic "mythology," of course they would explain away Thor and his people as being powerful, nigh-immortal aliens.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I don't think that thought changes, because one is an alien and one is a god.
I think what changes, is one's view of basically coming down to...worship. "Okay. It's an alien that can stomp me like a bug! But that's no different than me going head to head with a tank!" vs "Okay! This is a god! Do I start worshipping them now? Is my soul damned if I don't? Or I do? OMG! My chosen faith is so wrong, why didn't I think to worship forgotten religions?!" Basically no different than what CoH uses for Zeus. He wasn't a god, he was an incarnate that was worshipped as a god by the people, as well, incarnates (and supers in general) are powerful enough to be viewed as such by those without equal power. |
(That doesn't mean that there aren't people on Earth who still follow/believe in Norse mythology, and who might well see Thor's appearance in modern times as equivalent to the idea of the second coming for Christians. In fact, that might be an interesting angle to explore in a sequel...)
There is an art, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. --The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
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Exactly what I was going say. They even say it during the trailer as Thor explains to Jane Foster that where he comes from magic and technology are one in the same.
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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Dude. First of all, I doubt you will find anyone here that didn't already know that and secondly, aren't already cool with the explanation.
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The movies and TV shows are their own separate "universe" from the comics. The producers, writers and directors pull the key elements from the comics, but they only pull whatever they choose and make up the rest. Look at how "Smallville" has butchered the comics continuum. X-Men definitely don't follow the comics. Even the Burton "Batman" film had the Joker (as Jack Napier) killing Bruce Wayne's parents.
But this is OK since comic book writers have been doing the same thing. The origin and powers keep changing over the years. Superman was not able to fly when he first appeared, and has picked up a variety of abilities over the years.
The Marvel movie universe has, thus far, been lacking in "magic." Iron Man & Hulk are pure technology. I don't have a problem with treating the "gods" derived from Norse mythology as extra-dimentional super-powerful beings. Besides, it will probably keep the film from being as offensive to the many religious folks who only accept a single deity. I think it is a good move from a marketing point of view.
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You're crossing your mythologies here. Gaea is Greek. |
Originally Posted by Fritzdog
Odin is Thors Father and Gaea The Earth Goddess is his mother. I think that gives him god status.
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Thor's mom was Fjorgyn (basically the Norse earth goddess, so you are close).
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Was his name Kadabra?
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Used to RP a character like that in another setting, genius scientist and inventor, who pretended to be a wizard.
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Well I think they could have gone with either this route or the "doubt he's a god but turns out he actually is one" angle similar to what was done in The Ultimates, so you would have people ******** about it either way.
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"I am Mighty Thor, the extra-terrestial personage with advanced technology that gives me control* of Thunder!"|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
That's always been the explanation for the Asgardians in Marvel. They've been aliens since Kirby drew them.
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*Formerly, god.
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Originally Posted by PlasmaStream
Was his name Kadabra?
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Gullius Blackstaff.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Maybe in the second move.|
Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
Will he be from the planet Zeist?
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But there IS NO SECOND MOVIE! THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
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But blasters are clumsy weapons.|
Originally Posted by Fritzdog
Might as well take away his hammer next, we can give em a laser gun
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Nothing quite says "polite and civil" in combat like mashing someone in the face with a hunk of stone/metal on a stick then dropping a lightning bolt on them for kicks.
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
Technology no matter how advanced must obey the laws of physics. Magic, were it real, would be capable of breaking the laws of physics.
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Or it could be that it's simply obeying laws of physics of which you are unaware.
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QFT|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Nothing quite says "polite and civil" in combat like mashing someone in the face with a hunk of stone/metal on a stick then dropping a lightning bolt on them for kicks.
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Ok, nerd rage subsiding. Still not happy about it but I can accept it.
Magic is merely a scientific trick that hasn't been explained yet. Once you know how the magician pulls a rabbit out of his hat, it's not magic anymore and you'll never look at that trick the same way again.
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Technically that's four.|
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
Pfft.
Two words: Battlestar Galactica. |
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
"I am Mighty Thor, the extra-terrestial personage with advanced technology that gives me control* of Thunder!"
*Formerly, god. |
Take it you've never read any of Kirby's stuff then? Pretty much all his gods are just super advanced aliens, that think they are gods.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
I find the mixed titles of 'god' and 'aliens' etc. to be funny in the comic genre. Yes, in Marvel Asgard is a literal place in another dimension/world with advanced tech power. The alien term sticks, but let's be honest here, he's up there with the super hero 'gods.'
Yes, they are that, let's face it. We don't use the term 'gods' as people are uncomfortable with religious overtones, so the terminology is changed. We don't talk about a god born from chaos of the void, but we talk about unstoppable green men that can smash mountains coming from a nuclear explosion. Compare Superman with Zeus, and Supes doesn't come up short. Say what you will, even if Thor's using 'tech,' (And I mean tech in the magical fiction sense, not the actual sense) he's still an invulnerable, ageless super-human with incredible strength that can summon lightning. Sounds like a 'god' (mythologically speaking) to me.
We've just swapped to lingo that's fashionable.
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I knew, but I am certainly not "cool" with it.|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Dude. First of all, I doubt you will find anyone here that didn't already know that and secondly, aren't already cool with the explanation.
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I expected this from the time that the movie was announced. Like Thor's appearance in the Hulk TV movie, I suspect that certain groups were not comfortable with the idea of presenting an actual deity other than the Christian one on screen.
As for what the difference is... Reducing them to aliens makes them less epic. They become a mundane-- albeit otherworldly-- species, instead of primal forces of the universe.
I don't remember them being described as aliens originally. I'm pretty sure that that's more in line with the Ultimate's view. Thor was the son of Gaia, after all. She most certainly is a mystical being, not an alien.
Est sularis oth Mithas
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*Raises hand* I didn't know this. Not entirely sure how I feel about it. Where the producers afraid of offending religious groups if they made the characters the embodiment of Norse gods?|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Dude. First of all, I doubt you will find anyone here that didn't already know that and secondly, aren't already cool with the explanation.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Take it you've never read any of Kirby's stuff then? Pretty much all his gods are just super advanced aliens, that think they are gods.
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fixed that for you.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I don't think that thought changes, because one is an alien and one is a god.
I think what changes, is one's view of basically coming down to...marketing. |
The last thing they wanted was any hullabaloo from the conservative religious concerned Hollywood watchers on a block buster targeted film.
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Originally Posted by Arnabas
I suspect that certain groups were not comfortable with the idea of presenting an actual deity other than the Christian one on screen.
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Ah, to Hel with them all. I wanted to see a Norse god on screen, even if it was through Kirby's twisted vision. |
Originally Posted by Chyll
The last thing they wanted was any hullabaloo from the conservative religious concerned Hollywood watchers on a block buster targeted film.
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I'm just hoping they don't make a big thing of it. Or mention it at all for that matter.
Grrr.
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Meh, any "god" that has powers short of omnipotence and omniscience is merely an alien being to me. Or possibly an unchanging force that can not react to or cause any sort of change in the universe (i.e. they are stuck repeating the actions detailed in their stories forever ala the Norse gods in Top 10).
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Originally Posted by Arnabas
As for what the difference is... Reducing them to aliens makes them less epic. They become a mundane-- albeit otherworldly-- species, instead of primal forces of the universe.
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Just skimming the Marvel wiki and regular wiki and there's no specific mention of them being aliens or gods (worshiped as gods isn't the same as being one), simply extradimensional lifeforms. They mention the Ultimates versions specifically being aliens. However, Marvel 616's Asgardians are lacking the one trait that I personally would consider imperative to claiming godhood. |
Originally Posted by Dante
Ah, to Hel with them all. I wanted to see a Norse god on screen, even if it was through Kirby's twisted vision.
I'm just hoping they don't make a big thing of it. Or mention it at all for that matter. Grrr. |
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