How you would balance the Market?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-01-25 18:30 in The Market and Inventions
I dont think you can balance it...
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
I guess in order to "fix" it, I'd need a definition of how it's broken.
What do you think is broken about it? The level of the prices? The rate at which prices change? The fact that the change is usually an increase? The fact that prices vary widely with time and product level?
(Those are all examples of things I can see someone thinking are broken. I am not saying at this point that I think they are broken or that I think they're OK.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Inf store for recipes and salvage
I guess we get to define our own problems and then solve them.
Too much inf! Not enough midlevel recipes! For 10 million inf you can change a recipe to any level in the same "band" (1-25, 26-40, 41-50) and for 10 million inf you can change from the bottom of one band to the top of another or vice versa (25 to 26, 41 to 40, whatever). So for 30 million you can turn a LoTG level 50 into a LoTG level 26: 50-41, 41-40, 40-26. For another 10 million you can turn it into a level 25. Some people would pay the extra.
I kind of like the idea of a very small number of merits being available daily for inf. Set up like a 6-merit TF that is just "Craft this widget [crafting cost: 10 million inf]? " Something like that.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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That's the way uh huh uh huh I like it!
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Originally Posted by Yorukira
The best way to describe the market would be Pure Chaos.
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uh huh uh huh uh
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
That's the way uh huh uh huh I like it!
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@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
I would make Friday part of the weekend and give every new baby chocolate eclairs.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html
I'm guessing a lot of people are using A Merits for direct buys rather than random rolls.
Allowing people to specify exact level for random rolls of A Merits might get a few more of them rolled rather than converted directly.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Yomo: Take Zamboni lessons.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Increasing supply would not "keep inflation going". All other things being equal, greater supply would lead to lower prices, since sellers would compete with each other by lowering prices to make sales.
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Originally Posted by Yorukira
Giving more supply/inf will not help since it will only keep inflation going.
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My world is made up of silver and copper.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Yomo: Take Zamboni lessons.
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To OP: I don't think the marketplace is unbalanced. It's just a simple set of rules that changes from time to time. There are a lot of people who play this game and not all of them can be "The BEST" with builds or IOs or whatever. We don't all need purpled warshades -- the world needs ditchdiggers too. This game is easy enough with SOs.
But my bona fide suggestion to the developers would be to make the "bad" IO sets better. Put in resistance bonuses that are stackable to decent levels. Increase mags of mez, rather than duration of mez. Get rid of debt protection bonuses. Get rid of snipe sets, or at least give them good bonuses. Give the low level sets really good bonuses so that people have to really ask themselves if they want to upgrade from that level 25 capped set that gives 7.5% recharge and 5% smashing resist to a level 50 set that gives you something less but with better accuracy/damage/recharge/etc.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html
I think the only thing "broken" with the market that I can see is impatient buyers who see 5 prices that are the same for the stuff they want to buy and only put in that price as a bid.
This allows savvy sellers to corner the market and make tons of money, which to me is perfectly fair.
I routinely flood the market with salvage and recipes (not counting the highly sought after orange or purple stuff) and price it all at 1 INF. This goes for stuff that sells for 10 INF to stuff that sells for 100,000 INF, and I would estimate that 99% of the time I get the "market" price, or within 10-20% of the market price (both ways, higher and lower).
I can't recall how many times I've gotten 1 INF for what I've put up for sale, but its almost never.
Candy canes were a great experiment. Dozens and dozens put for sale at 1 INF, not one was sold at that price.
So heads up folks!
If you are looking for cheap stuff, there's a really good chance that your 1 INF bid will get it, especially 50 common IO enhancement recipes and all the magic salvage you can choke on.
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I know there is a lot of stuff put up for 1 or 5 inf, especially "junk" salvage but I always pay at least what a vendor pays plus a little extra. I want people to put thier salavage up for sale instead of vending it or deleting it.|
Originally Posted by LVConvert
So heads up folks!
If you are looking for cheap stuff, there's a really good chance that your 1 INF bid will get it, especially 50 common IO enhancement recipes and all the magic salvage you can choke on. |
Really, if you are flipping and paying somebody 11 inf and then selling it for 5000, make it worth thier while to keep you in business and give them the lousy 240 inf extra.
Yeah, I know you can get it for 11 or 10, but you make so much inf that you can easily afford to let them break even.
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Supply of what? Generally all other things are *not* equal as increasing supply also increases the amount of INF in the game, and therefore inflation.
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Originally Posted by Void Spirit
Increasing supply would not "keep inflation going". All other things being equal, greater supply would lead to lower prices, since sellers would compete with each other by lowering prices to make sales.
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Try that with items that have 0 bids.
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Originally Posted by LVConvert
I think the only thing "broken" with the market that I can see is impatient buyers who see 5 prices that are the same for the stuff they want to buy and only put in that price as a bid.
This allows savvy sellers to corner the market and make tons of money, which to me is perfectly fair. I routinely flood the market with salvage and recipes (not counting the highly sought after orange or purple stuff) and price it all at 1 INF. This goes for stuff that sells for 10 INF to stuff that sells for 100,000 INF, and I would estimate that 99% of the time I get the "market" price, or within 10-20% of the market price (both ways, higher and lower). I can't recall how many times I've gotten 1 INF for what I've put up for sale, but its almost never. Candy canes were a great experiment. Dozens and dozens put for sale at 1 INF, not one was sold at that price. So heads up folks! If you are looking for cheap stuff, there's a really good chance that your 1 INF bid will get it, especially 50 common IO enhancement recipes and all the magic salvage you can choke on. |
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I wouldn't call it a "really good chance." If I've got a 1 INF bid up for a generic Knockback IO, and there's outstanding bids of 100, 1000, and 5000 when you put it up for sale, you're going to make 5000 (less market fees) and I'll get nothing. |
Originally Posted by LVConvert
If you are looking for cheap stuff, there's a really good chance that your 1 INF bid will get it, especially 50 common IO enhancement recipes and all the magic salvage you can choke on.
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In fact, you already pretty much said so:
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Originally Posted by LVConvert
I can't recall how many times I've gotten 1 INF for what I've put up for sale, but its almost never.
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I put stuff up for 1 INF all the time myself, with the same sort of results as yours. It certainly makes it quick and easy to sell stuff, though, instead of agonizing over where I should price it like I did when I first discovered the market...then watching something just sit there for a week because others were selling theirs for 100. Or 10. Or 1.
"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner
30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04
Show the bid and sell prices for each item. Show the sales history, including price and volume.
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I wouldn't.|
Originally Posted by Yorukira
But how would you balance the market to eliminate inflation and many other situation it have?
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If you define a "balanced market" as one without long-term changes in prices, I don't think it's possible to achieve this without drastic changes in the game's reward structure. In order for prices to remain constant over time, the supply of goods, the demand for goods, and the size of the money supply need to remain in balance with each other -- something that's very hard to do, since the developers can only control two of the factors, and adjusting either can cause unpredictable changes in demand. Further, demand can change without any change in either supply of goods or money supply, eg. if people start playing lots of new characters, demand will shift from high-level set recipes to low-level common IOs.
There are changes I would make to the market to make things work better, though:
1) Set recipes would be available only at multiple-of-five levels, the way common IO recipes are. This should make the market more efficient, and may lower prices.
2) Rebalance the drop rates within each recipe pool. Right now, I believe all recipes with a pool at a given level have an equal chance to drop; I'd weight the drops based on the popularity of powers that can slot a given recipe.
3) Random rolls would produce a recipe at the selected level, rather than at the character's level. This should greatly increase the supply of mid-level recipes.
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This might make sense if you always knew who your counterparty was. But you don't, so anyone else who pays less is making you look bad. And I don't see a way you can make people pay a little extra, you know, for the effort.|
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
I know there is a lot of stuff put up for 1 or 5 inf, especially "junk" salvage but I always pay at least what a vendor pays plus a little extra. I want people to put thier salavage up for sale instead of vending it or deleting it.
Really, if you are flipping and paying somebody 11 inf and then selling it for 5000, make it worth thier while to keep you in business and give them the lousy 240 inf extra. Yeah, I know you can get it for 11 or 10, but you make so much inf that you can easily afford to let them break even. |
On an aside, when you tip someone, do you make a really big deal about it? To make sure they know they are being tipped by you? I won't judge, but if I were a betting man ...
I would take the Steelers and the under.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html
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That could be what the OP meant, and if so then I misunderstood what he was driving at. The easy answer is 'add money sinks' but that topic is already well-worn ground. Short of that, I think the devs already have good reward systems in place. Reward merits, alignment merits, and AE tickets are essentially inflation-proof.|
Originally Posted by Katie V
If you define a "balanced market" as one without long-term changes in prices, I don't think it's possible to achieve this without drastic changes in the game's reward structure.
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| 2) Rebalance the drop rates within each recipe pool. Right now, I believe all recipes with a pool at a given level have an equal chance to drop; I'd weight the drops based on the popularity of powers that can slot a given recipe. |
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Money sinks by themselves won't do it. In order to to prevent long-term price changes, they need to be compulsory money sinks. Otherwise, players can accumulate money without bound, leading to inflation.|
Originally Posted by Intrinsic
That could be what the OP meant, and if so then I misunderstood what he was driving at. The easy answer is 'add money sinks' but that topic is already well-worn ground.
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| Are they? I thought that the drop rates were weighted in one of the patches. I've missed a lot of patch notes though, so I may be mistaken. |
Perhaps some money sink like in EVE - 1 billion inf for a month of game time?
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Last time I checked, EVE had a professional economist on staff to keep the in-game enconomy balanced.
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Originally Posted by Ghostwind_EU
Perhaps some money sink like in EVE - 1 billion inf for a month of game time?
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That's correct as far as I know also. Drops from mobs are still a "flat" lookup.|
Originally Posted by Katie V
Random rolls are, but as far as I'm aware, drops aren't.
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Originally Posted by Katie V
Last time I checked, EVE had a professional economist on staff to keep the in-game enconomy balanced.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Today I was doing my typical shopping through the market, getting the Purple IO and the salvage need. Also selling IO and recipe to sustain my 5 toon with over a 1billion builds(And to believe that is cheap)
The best way to describe the market would be Pure Chaos.
Then it hit me, may this is the only way it can be when players don't know the basic of economy. There is no way to fix it.
But how would you balance the market to eliminate inflation and many other situation it have?
Giving more supply/inf will not help since it will only keep inflation going.
I want /Fire stalker. Because nothing says stealth like dumping a can of gasoline on yourself and lighting a match. -Morac