How you would balance the Market?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-01-25 18:30 in The Market and Inventions
Quote:
Correct.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
I don't know about how near or far we may be from that. I doubt anyone with a player level access to the market could actually say. I do know I have seen a large rise in volume in people looking to trade items rather than sell them on the market. This isn't just the very top tier but reasonable level purples and pvp ios as well.
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UberGuy, the problem is multi-fold. What I'm looking at when I worry we're getting too close to collapse is something like this: There is currently something of a stigma against off-market trades. Mostly because it is inconvenient compared to just using the market. I'd rather buy there where I can get it NAO! But as trades start moving off the market, if I can't get the PvP IO I want on market, then I have to move off market (or do a merits, but the math doesn't work there -- you're (probably) better off with an off-market trade and selling the other results of a merits). At some point here you hit the first tipping point and people start lists of what they have and what they want and start looking for trades. Some will take inf to start with. Over time they'll quit and do barter-only, or barter-plus-inf with most of the value in the barter half.
The problem is this effect is self-reinforcing. One guy on the forums with one PvP IO and some greed the AH can't represent as a number? No big deal. Five PvP IOs within a day? That's a little more worrysome -- that's a faster exchange of them than the market is managing. So there's over billion inf that isn't getting destroyed to fees. A billion compared to Fulmen's estimate of inf reserves? A pittance... but then again how many mobs do you have to kill to make a billion?
As that happens more and more, suddenly everyone starts doing it and the market dries up. Low-value stuff (salvage, trash/niche recipes) will still be there... but the big stuff (purples first, other >100 mil IOs shortly after) will quickly filter off. One piece of a set pulling out of the market is going to try to drag the rest with it -- because if I have a gambler6 and keep other gamblers in my inventory, I might be able to trade the whole package up to say, a miracle6 someone else has.
So in short: its a failure mode like an avalanche (or even our favorite: cascading defense failure). The first failure isn't ... so bad. The next one, okay it gets a fair bit worse. Let the failed points reach 5% of what people want and suddenly it gets worse very quickly. I couldn't tell you where the "halfway/median" point is, but I'd guess it is under 25%. Maybe less. Maybe under 15%.
You can say, "but that's why we have limited storage!" To which I respond, "have you seen the crazy 88s?" If you know what they did, then the concept of limited storage falls apart. Have your trade mule (yep, I said it!) with their own private SG. Buy up enough of a base to fill it with invention storage. How many IOs is that? Something around 1800? Yes, that's /very/ limiting storage!
With gleemail you don't even have to have that storage on the server you play on, so you're not taking up a precious character slot on your play server. In fact I suspect most storage bases of that form would end up on virtue or freedom, simply because they're high pop. Then we'll have a barter server(s), not an auction house.
Plus the private base lets you do nice things, like letting people browse your wares by pulling an alt (purchasing mule) of theirs into your SG with permissions to look-not-take. Now they can browse and you don't have to do anything but invite the mule temporarily (or maybe even just a team invite? Not sure there.). You might even find players trying to run bots to do the above. I've seen it in other games before... Not pretty.
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I just don't see any of that happening here for any items that sell below the cap. That's all just way too much of a pain in the butt, for what? To save 10% going to market fees? Doesn't make any sense.
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Originally Posted by Rhysem
Correct.
UberGuy, the problem is multi-fold. What I'm looking at when I worry we're getting too close to collapse is something like this: There is currently something of a stigma against off-market trades. Mostly because it is inconvenient compared to just using the market. I'd rather buy there where I can get it NAO! But as trades start moving off the market, if I can't get the PvP IO I want on market, then I have to move off market (or do a merits, but the math doesn't work there -- you're (probably) better off with an off-market trade and selling the other results of a merits). At some point here you hit the first tipping point and people start lists of what they have and what they want and start looking for trades. Some will take inf to start with. Over time they'll quit and do barter-only, or barter-plus-inf with most of the value in the barter half. The problem is this effect is self-reinforcing. One guy on the forums with one PvP IO and some greed the AH can't represent as a number? No big deal. Five PvP IOs within a day? That's a little more worrysome -- that's a faster exchange of them than the market is managing. So there's over billion inf that isn't getting destroyed to fees. A billion compared to Fulmen's estimate of inf reserves? A pittance... but then again how many mobs do you have to kill to make a billion? As that happens more and more, suddenly everyone starts doing it and the market dries up. Low-value stuff (salvage, trash/niche recipes) will still be there... but the big stuff (purples first, other >100 mil IOs shortly after) will quickly filter off. One piece of a set pulling out of the market is going to try to drag the rest with it -- because if I have a gambler6 and keep other gamblers in my inventory, I might be able to trade the whole package up to say, a miracle6 someone else has. So in short: its a failure mode like an avalanche (or even our favorite: cascading defense failure). The first failure isn't ... so bad. The next one, okay it gets a fair bit worse. Let the failed points reach 5% of what people want and suddenly it gets worse very quickly. I couldn't tell you where the "halfway/median" point is, but I'd guess it is under 25%. Maybe less. Maybe under 15%. You can say, "but that's why we have limited storage!" To which I respond, "have you seen the crazy 88s?" If you know what they did, then the concept of limited storage falls apart. Have your trade mule (yep, I said it!) with their own private SG. Buy up enough of a base to fill it with invention storage. How many IOs is that? Something around 1800? Yes, that's /very/ limiting storage! With gleemail you don't even have to have that storage on the server you play on, so you're not taking up a precious character slot on your play server. In fact I suspect most storage bases of that form would end up on virtue or freedom, simply because they're high pop. Then we'll have a barter server(s), not an auction house. Plus the private base lets you do nice things, like letting people browse your wares by pulling an alt (purchasing mule) of theirs into your SG with permissions to look-not-take. Now they can browse and you don't have to do anything but invite the mule temporarily (or maybe even just a team invite? Not sure there.). You might even find players trying to run bots to do the above. I've seen it in other games before... Not pretty. |
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Doesn't make any sense until you're saving the things from going on the market in order to barter with someone else who has something you want where the market collapsed for that IO. At the point you're saving them and have a list and what not so you can trade... saving an extra 10 of 100 isn't a big chunk of extra work, you already did most of it saving the first dozen or so.
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Originally Posted by Quasadu
I just don't see any of that happening here for any items that sell below the cap. That's all just way too much of a pain in the butt, for what? To save 10% going to market fees? Doesn't make any sense.
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I still don't think it will happen. There is no point to saving up a list of items for off market trading when you can easily sell those items on the market. And if the items are not being pulled off the market for outside trading, then the on-market trade will not collapse. |
Originally Posted by Rhysem
Doesn't make any sense until you're saving the things from going on the market in order to barter with someone else who has something you want where the market collapsed for that IO. At the point you're saving them and have a list and what not so you can trade... saving an extra 10 of 100 isn't a big chunk of extra work, you already did most of it saving the first dozen or so.
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This is true even if you are already doing off market trading for other items. If I'm doing off market trading of items that are either too high value or too rare (or both) to move on the market, that doesn't entice me to stop using the market for items that do move well through it. The market is and will always be more efficient for moving those goods in a timely fashion. Unless, as you said, the market for that item collapses first. But that's not going to happen if the item is not (A) too valuable or (B) too rare or (C) both.
I can see some purples getting up to the cap - not all purples but some - in the forseeable future without some significant inf sinks or other measures. In that case those would likely move off market. But I still don't see them bringing anything else with them that isn't also hitting the cap. There's just no reason for it.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
I consider myself fairly strongly opposed to things I think will create slippery slope, self-reinforcing feedback loops in the market, driving people away from it. I have argued for and against various player proposals for the market (or things related to it, like drop rates, fixed price stores, etc.) on the basis of whether I felt they would impact the likelyhood of people using the market.
I simply do not get any vibe that what you're talking about is having the effect you're talking about at the price levels we operate at.
Off-market trading has always happened for stuff under the cap, because it's smart for the seller to do to save the 10% fees. The key is finding a consumer for your goods. For most players, the easiest way to do that is the in-game market. For the convenience of matching your list price with the highest bidder, the market takes 10% of your dough. But the market forum is here for barter and sales too, among other things, so if you are willing to use it, or perhaps have some other avenue to find buyers (a global channel, perhaps) you can bypass the in-game market.
Remember, correlation is not a clear indicator of causation. We have inflation, and we have increased off-market selling. That doesn't mean the former caused the latter. You know what else we have that we didn't have very long ago? Alignment merits allowing a lot more people to produce and sell PvPOs, and an email system allowing cross-server transfer of goods and inf. What if the people who created and sold a PvPO on this forum or in some channel or SG had good luck with it decided "hey, that's not so bad, maybe I can sell more stuff like that, and save on the 10% fees!"
Could it be caused by rising prices? Sure, and in the case of stuff that's selling for over 2B, definitely. Is it likely that's the cause in any general increase in off-market selling? I think there enough other potential causes (that make a lot more sense to me) that I don't see it.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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It's not a stigma, it's just human nature- most people will happily engage a system that is simple and efficient over one that isn't.|
Originally Posted by Rhysem
What I'm looking at when I worry we're getting too close to collapse is something like this: There is currently something of a stigma against off-market trades. Mostly because it is inconvenient compared to just using the market
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Especially when the cost savings of the alternative are minor.
PVP IOs trade off market not because people want to save money, but because the market doesn't handle those transactions efficiently.
A couple of things out of the panoply of salable goods in this game trading off market isn't a harbinger of doom, it's just a sign that the inf cap is badly outdated in the modern era of super-mega-earningpower.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Agreed. Also one other aspect some fail to get. To some segments certain IOs (specifically certain pvp IOs) are worth MORE than 2bill to BOTH the seller and buyer. We here may not think so, but there are specific players (pvpers) who think that additional boost is worth MORE than 2bill.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
It's not a stigma, it's just human nature- most people will happily engage a system that is simple and efficient over one that isn't.
Especially when the cost savings of the alternative are minor. PVP IOs trade off market not because people want to save money, but because the market doesn't handle those transactions efficiently. A couple of things out of the panoply of salable goods in this game trading off market isn't a harbinger of doom, it's just a sign that the inf cap is badly outdated in the modern era of super-mega-earningpower. |
I can MOST DEFINITELY say that that is NOT a common case. At all.
It would have to be for what some folks are suggesting (that more and more things are being sold off market to save on the 10% inf fee. Which by the way I think is an absurd assumption)
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I picked up one of the super-mega pvp IOs for my ar/dev rebuild project with the purchase price going into the 88's furnace. I bought it off market because it was much quicker and easier, the 10% didn't even enter my mind.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
It would have to be for what some folks are suggesting (that more and more things are being sold off market to save on the 10% inf fee. Which by the way I think is an absurd assumption) |
at that level of finance the 200m (or whatever) you save by avoiding the market fee doesn't really register- when I cleaned out my cupboards for the big Winter Solstice bonfire I found characters I'd almost forgotten I had on servers I rarely ever visit who had hundreds of millions lying around.
Sure, there are people who would choke and splutter at the thought of 'throwing away' 200m, but I don't think those players are buying 2b+ IOs in the first place.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Pretty much. It's the same thing with some folks balking at 500K salvage when the FREAKING RECIPE is 20 million. |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I picked up one of the super-mega pvp IOs for my ar/dev rebuild project with the purchase price going into the 88's furnace. I bought it off market because it was much quicker and easier, the 10% didn't even enter my mind.
at that level of finance the 200m (or whatever) you save by avoiding the market fee doesn't really register- when I cleaned out my cupboards for the big Winter Solstice bonfire I found characters I'd almost forgotten I had on servers I rarely ever visit who had hundreds of millions lying around. Sure, there are people who would choke and splutter at the thought of 'throwing away' 200m, but I don't think those players are buying 2b+ IOs in the first place. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I'll admit it. I'm cheap like that. 2.5% of my recipe price is a measurable amount of money. I end up paying it, because I Want It Nao, but I grumble.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
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The recipe might be 20 mil, but that recipe requires 3-4 salvage pieces. When I outfit a character, I usually do it all at once, so we're talking like 60-some recipes and 180-240 pieces of salvage. Figure 150 non-rare salvage pieces (which are going to cost 3-4 mil regardless). Unless you're an 88, it seems silly to blow 75 mil on common and uncommon salvage when you could be paying 7.5-15 mil instead. It's only a minor fraction of the total cost of an IO, sure, but it adds up.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Pretty much. It's the same thing with some folks balking at 500K salvage when the FREAKING RECIPE is 20 million.
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Besides, what's that saying? Look after the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves?
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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I take the opposite approach- make enough inf and you don't need to care about pennies.
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
Besides, what's that saying? Look after the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves?
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I don't mind waiting, but I have only so many market slots per character. If they are all filled selling and buying with optimal bids and asks, I'm stuck (unless I start transferring stuff around between characters with open slots, which I don't want to do). So at some point, I sometimes have to decide whether I want to save a couple hundred thousand inf on a piece of salvage, or buy it now and clear the slot to put in a lower bid on a millions of inf (or tens of millions, or hundreds of millions) recipe that can sit in that slot for however long it takes for that bid to execute. I'm willing to wait to a degree, but I'm not willing to wait for something to execute, so I can put another order that I have to wait to execute so I can put another order that I have to wait to execute. That's the point when I start to buy the cheap stuff now and let the expensive stuff bake in the market slots freed by buying the cheap stuff now.|
Originally Posted by Bosstone
The recipe might be 20 mil, but that recipe requires 3-4 salvage pieces. When I outfit a character, I usually do it all at once, so we're talking like 60-some recipes and 180-240 pieces of salvage. Figure 150 non-rare salvage pieces (which are going to cost 3-4 mil regardless). Unless you're an 88, it seems silly to blow 75 mil on common and uncommon salvage when you could be paying 7.5-15 mil instead. It's only a minor fraction of the total cost of an IO, sure, but it adds up.
Besides, what's that saying? Look after the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves? |
I had an order for a long time on the Shield +3% proc (the res, not the Glad def) that executed recently for 1.6 billion**. The buy now price is usually closer to 1.9 billion or 2.0 billion. Letting that sit and wait saved maybe 400 million. It'll take me years to save that much inf buying salvage at optimal price points. That's worth tying up a slot for a long time. Tying up the same slot for days or weeks trying to save half a million inf on a piece of salvage? Worth it if I have the slots. Otherwise, not for me.
(Note: that one purchase took about 70% of all the influence I have on my top four inf earning alts combined. It was worth waiting for the savings given that even for me 1.6 billion is not chump change.)
** Specifically, the 1.61B order on the crafted enhancement recently was me. Weirdly, the crafted enhancement is sometimes cheaper than the recipe is. Not by much given the numbers, but still. Probably because more people craft it and sell it than just sell the recipe, which means the recipe is ironically slightly rarer. Thin market psychology always serves me better than Adam Smith does in the CoX markets, which is why I'm always slightly amused by attempts to describe the current market conditions in classical terms (as opposed to what people might want the markets to be).
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Fair 'nuff. Depends on the level of the market you're playing at, and this being the Market forum I should know which level I'm talking to.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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There's no question I only use the classics as bulk guidance, and then I home in with more focus using lessons learned, at least when I feel like being more precise (which isn't that often). The one about the way recipe and crafted IO prices behave, particularly in low supply rate items is definitely a great example. They have this weird orbit around one another.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Specifically, the 1.61B order on the crafted enhancement recently was me. Weirdly, the crafted enhancement is sometimes cheaper than the recipe is. Not by much given the numbers, but still. Probably because more people craft it and sell it than just sell the recipe, which means the recipe is ironically slightly rarer. Thin market psychology always serves me better than Adam Smith does in the CoX markets, which is why I'm always slightly amused by attempts to describe the current market conditions in classical terms (as opposed to what people might want the markets to be).
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Yeah, I think I'm going to agree with Nethergoat here, and offer a counter:|
Originally Posted by Bosstone
Besides, what's that saying? Look after the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves?
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Look after the pennies, and before you know it... you're dead, and you wish you had done something more fun than looking after %%&^%* pennies.
The market is fun, but seriously: remember your goals for having fun. If the market is the end goal, more power to you. But if playing the game is the 'fun goal', then worry less about the pennies. That's just my 2 pennies.
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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Yep, this is pretty much my take on it. When I'm buying things for the purpose of reselling I'm happy to be patient. When I'm working on my build however I want it NOW!
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Originally Posted by galadiman
The market is fun, but seriously: remember your goals for having fun. If the market is the end goal, more power to you. But if playing the game is the 'fun goal', then worry less about the pennies. That's just my 2 pennies.
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First: Eliminate some of the 'junk' recipes. I understand that there need to be some that will always underperform compared to others but 12 St/Ranged Damage sets is a bit extreme IMHO. It clutters the Market AND the RNG for drops.
Second: Rearrange the salvage necessary to create recipes based on level. Thus the stuff at lvl 31 and higher (for instance) won't require Luck Charms which (IIRC) don't drop above lvl 30. I believe that one of the reasons for the higher prices on many of the items listed as 'Common' is that they are inflated because some lvl 50 needs it nao for his new shiny and doesn't mind paying 100k for it. This bumps the 'little guy' just starting out in the Invention System out in the cold because he can't compete.
Third: Create an automatic refill system for the AH that guarantees that nothing will ever completely run out. Example: Someone comes in and buys out all of the Silver for whatever reason. When the level of Silver in the AH breaks the threshold of (random number) 10 then the AH refill system 'creates' enough Silver to refill the minimum quantity. The cost for buying these items would be preset and usually higher than the item would sell for by a player because it's now in higher demand.
The purpose for this is to ensure that noone can ever totally corner the Market on anything (I loathe Market PvP btw). It might also encourage new players or players that have skipped the Invention System up until now to try it because they know that they can always find what they need. They might have to pay a premium for it (I firmly believe that if you're impatient then you should pay extra) but they can at least try it.
The minimum for some things (like purple recipes) should be 1 and the price insanely high to reflect their rarity but there should always be at least 1 available.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
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Actually this is already done. Recipes level 10-25 use T1 salvage, 26-40 use Tier 2 and 41-50 use Tier 3 (one caveat, there are a few exceptions for 25 and 40, any recipe where 25 or 40 is the lowest available level will use one tier higher salvage for that particular level).|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
Second: Rearrange the salvage necessary to create recipes based on level. Thus the stuff at lvl 31 and higher (for instance) won't require Luck Charms which (IIRC) don't drop above lvl 30. I believe that one of the reasons for the higher prices on many of the items listed as 'Common' is that they are inflated because some lvl 50 needs it nao for his new shiny and doesn't mind paying 100k for it. This bumps the 'little guy' just starting out in the Invention System out in the cold because he can't compete.
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The reason lower tier salvage is popular with level 50s isn't because level 50 recipes need that salvage it's because:
1. There are advantages to using lower level recipes (keep bonuses when exemping)
2. Field Crafter
I don't think there is a good solution to this. Removing the 3-level restriction on set bonuses would help but you're still going to get level 50s buying lower tier salvage either when working on Field Crafter or to equip their alts.
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I suspect that in the long run, that would just result in the price migrating towards that insane number.|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
The minimum for some things (like purple recipes) should be 1 and the price insanely high to reflect their rarity but there should always be at least 1 available.
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If no one but the market is selling one, someone will eventually pay the market's insane price. If supply is thin enough that it's common that the market is the only one selling something, then I'm going to be tempted to just slightly undercut the market. After all, I know someone is going to pay that price, and if I slightly undercut the market, I know I'll get the sale.
No one would ever be able to sell for more than the market, and I think in a supply thin enough for the market function to matter, it would also essentially set the price floor. (Or at least a price range that sales usually occur within near that automated price.)
And if the market's auto-sale price is so high that no one actually offers to pay it, I'm not sure it's doing anything anyway.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Adeon and Uber have brought up very good points that I did not consider. I used to be one of the loudest protesters to the prices for the Market but now I generally think back to the adage: "An item is always worth what the buyer pays for it."
I don't care if purple recipes are selling for 500mil each. I never plan to buy one so the high price simple means that I'll get more profit if I happen to sell one.
However I still believe that the Market needs some tweaking. Even if all of the current sets remained (and I don't think they should for various reasons) I still believe that they should trim the sets back to levels of 5. Having a lvl 31 recipe doesn't really accomplish anything for a set recipe but clutter the system. If a recipe drops in play then it should simple be of the highest level slottable by the character at that time.
As for the rest of my post...I had not considered the Field Crafter option (I don't have any toons anywhere close to it) or the advantage to slotting some sets lower than the character's level. I also had not considered that the Market price would, indeed begin creeping towards the set price which would remove some of the thrill of getting a good deal.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
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There is no reason to spend development time on a mechanism like this. If someone doesn't want to pay 500K for Alchemical Silver, they do not have to. They can spend five minutes in AE and then make ticket rolls for random Tier 2 arcane salvage. Alternately, as you level you can save away pieces of salvage that don't want to overpay for in your base, personal bank storage or market slots.|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
Third: Create an automatic refill system for the AH that guarantees that nothing will ever completely run out. Example: Someone comes in and buys out all of the Silver for whatever reason. When the level of Silver in the AH breaks the threshold of (random number) 10 then the AH refill system 'creates' enough Silver to refill the minimum quantity. The cost for buying these items would be preset and usually higher than the item would sell for by a player because it's now in higher demand.
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If every person -- and there are hundreds of them every day, it seems -- who wrote a note in the forums formulating and writing proposals like the one above instead spent that same time generating common salvage and posting it at a price they deemed fair, there would be no shortage of salvage and it would be much cheaper.
But since so many people just pay the outrageous prices instead of generating their own salvage, it's obvious that they don't really consider those prices to be excessive, and they believe their time is better spent doing something else.
This is a non-problem that deserves no developer attention, except perhaps to add a loading screen tip reminding players of the trivially easy way to generate common salvage in AE.
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This has been bought up a few times and personally I think it makes a lot of sense within the context of current supply options. The problem is that for any recipes that are generated by merits the supply at levels other than 50 is very slim. Reducing the available levels to every 5 would not fix that but it would concentrate what supply there is which should in theory help stimulate the sale/purchase of those recipes.|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
However I still believe that the Market needs some tweaking. Even if all of the current sets remained (and I don't think they should for various reasons) I still believe that they should trim the sets back to levels of 5. Having a lvl 31 recipe doesn't really accomplish anything for a set recipe but clutter the system. If a recipe drops in play then it should simple be of the highest level slottable by the character at that time.
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In the interested of balance I think if that was done it would be necessary to increase the set bonus range from 3 levels to 5.
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My suggested tweaks would be similar:|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
This has been bought up a few times and personally I think it makes a lot of sense within the context of current supply options. The problem is that for any recipes that are generated by merits the supply at levels other than 50 is very slim. Reducing the available levels to every 5 would not fix that but it would concentrate what supply there is which should in theory help stimulate the sale/purchase of those recipes.
In the interested of balance I think if that was done it would be necessary to increase the set bonus range from 3 levels to 5. |
- extend set bonus range from 3 to 5 levels
- reduce set IOs to multiple of 5 levels only
- set all proc/special IOs to the minimum level of their set*
- allow merit vendor level slider to determine level of recipe rewarded
*Yes, I know that a level 50 LotG def/rech does provide more +DEF enhancement value than a level 25, but I think concentrating the supply of stuff would out-weigh the (slight) loss of enhancement power in some special IOs.
Hazel Black - Mind/Psi D
Stephanie Winters - Nightwidow
Jacqui Frost - Cold/Ice D
Jacqui Embers - Fire/Kin C
Simone Templar - Fire/MM B
Mallory Woods - Kin/Rad D
Sanguine Melody - Grav/Sonic C
Fumina Hara - Plant/Storm C
Nutmeg - Warshade
Lauren Wu - SS/WP B
The only things that sell over the cap are extremely rare and desireable PvPOs. The only things that sell for a large fraction (>15-20%) of the cap regularly are purples.