How you would balance the Market?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-01-25 18:30 in The Market and Inventions
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Let's for a minutes ignore the fact that on a lot of commonly traded items, you can put in a fairly low bid, go play for an hour, and come back to find it filled. And that even if you're only using IOs at their max level, you can start buying and slotting 50s at level 47. You can actually start buying them before that, if you don't mind using some of your market slots for storage. And let's not forget those sets that max out below level 50.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
In another game that it seems everyone on earth plays and maybe even people off earth 10% of the players contribute more than half time played. My guess is you are one of our 10 percenters.
5 market cycles are very likely >> 5 consecutive real time evenings for most people. |
So I guess the only conclusion I can draw here is that if you ignore the market and IOs until you're 50, you're stuck with a choice between paying buy it nao prices and waiting "forever" to finish your build. I agree with that conclusion, however I fail to see how it has anything to do with player greed or indicates any kind of problem with the market.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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The closest I have to that kind of information, a substantial supply change, is something I found rather interesting when Alignment Merits came out. Before that, sub level 50 LotG +rch were rarely available, and sold for (ballpark) 150-200M Inf. When I saw the AM system, I immediately concluded that prices would drop on those, because in a couple of days anyone could get one by running tips, causing a confluence of reduced demand on the market and increased supply. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
This is true for liquid markets, where trades happen often enough to create at least some semblance of dynamic equilibrium. In thin markets, and a lot of high demand items create essentially very thin individual markets, all bets are off, because adding supply won't just increase the supply side of that market, it will fundamentally change that market. We don't know, for example, just how much demand for certain items never makes it to the markets due to the belief its pointless. Conversely, we don't know what will happen when people who used to make more influence for those items decide to change their activities when it becomes less profitable, creating a negative feedback in supply. Those are minor factors in liquid markets, but not in thin ones.
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If you look at the level 25 ones, they are still selling very comfortably in the range of 150-200M, though they dipped as low as 120M at a few points I believe. They are now selling many per day, though, as opposed to maybe 1 a week. Other levels are selling more frequently as well, of course, but it is obvious people are specifically generating them at level 25 to sell. Which is a great idea, as you mentioned in one of your other posts, but I found it interesting how elastic demand was. What is easily a 10x, if not more, supply increase is still getting grabbed right up.
Unfortunately, its hard to disentangle the factors in this. Demand may have gone up because of people who are actually using the markets to buy them now instead of, as you said, giving up because "its pointless". It may have gone up because some other items became cheaper, giving people more cash to throw at LotGs. I know there were a lot of compelling arguments made on the market forums before AMs about which ways they would drive prices of various things, and as usual some were right and some were wrong, even from experienced marketeers. . .
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you monster!|
Originally Posted by seebs
I feel so bad charging people for my time as a programmer, taking advantage of them when they could do the programming themselves if they'd only put in twenty years learning to code. I must be very greedy.
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>:e
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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You're got several goals, none of which are stated and many of which are in conflict. "Punish the greedy" (tying up slots to save a couple of hundred thousand on uncommon salvage) is on your list. I'm going to take it off my list and see what I get. |
Now lets take a look at your positrons blast example If you want to get the recipes at anything but buy it nao prices you are going to have to wait and wait. I am pretty certain every piece in the set requires at least 1 rare and IIRC there aren't any pieces you can make with less than 4 pieces of salvage. The base character has 16 slots ? @50. So they need 5 slots for patient bidding another 5 for patient bidding on the rare salvage. Uncommon salvage seems to be a target for manipulation lately so call it 2 slots for patient bidding there and call it another 2 of the 10 common pieces you can't just buy and ignore. At that point you have 14 out of 16 market slots tied up bidding for one set. You may need several of these for your build. |
I'm going to look at Positron's Blast, level 50, and compare four cases: BUY IT NAO [crafted], BUY IT NAO [recipes and salvage], my estimated "patient prices" with BUY IT NAO salvage, and maximum patient pricing. Anything currently under 5908 for salvage, or 100K for recipe, will be bought nao for those prices.
NAO CRAFTED [I actually did this right NAO]- bid creeping from 50% of lowest till buy, in 10% increments:
Damage/recharge 8,000,908
Damage/range 9,000,908
Damage/endurance 20,000,908
Accuracy/Damage 9,000,908
Acc/Dam/End 46,000,908
Total: 93 million, roughly.
BUY IT NAO: [recipes- choosing highest of "last 5"]:
Dam/Rech 7 mill
Dam/Range 1 mill
Dam/End 3 mill
Acc/Dam 7 mill
Acc/Dam/End 40 mill
Plus salvage, assumed to be 3.5 million each, and crafting, .5 million each, and we get 78 million. That's on the high end, because I didn't actually check the buy prices on these to make a conversational point.
[break to do an STF]
If we look at the second-lowest sales, assuming you can reasonably get those prices with patient bidding:
Dam/Rech 3 mill
Dam/Range 0.5 mill
Dam/End 1.5 mill
Acc/Dam 3.5 mill
Acc/Dam/End 18 mill
So if we throw in the "BUY IT NAO" salvage plus crafting, est. at 4 million total per item, we get 46.5 million.
If we assume 2 million per rare salvage, 55K per uncommon salvage, and 5k per common, we get 2.565 million crafting, per item, for a cost of about 13 million salvage and crafting, so around 39.5 million.
Buying crafted NAO vs. bidding on five recipes and instabuying salvage: 98 million vs. 46.5 million. If we buy NAO the two cheapest recipes, we have to bid on three items and we're paying half as much, almost exactly.
Notice that I didn't even check prices on the uncommon salvage. It might cost 100K, it might cost 500K, it might cost 5K. It's not going to make a dent compared to the price of the Dam/Acc/End .
Surely you can leave bids on THREE items overnight?
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Well there is no punish the greedy motivation in my example. If you are going to patient bid you might as well maximize the effect. |
Originally Posted by Fulmens
You're got several goals, none of which are stated and many of which are in conflict. "Punish the greedy" (tying up slots to save a couple of hundred thousand on uncommon salvage) is on your list. I'm going to take it off my list and see what I get.
I'm going to look at Positron's Blast, level 50, and compare four cases: BUY IT NAO [crafted], BUY IT NAO [recipes and salvage], my estimated "patient prices" with BUY IT NAO salvage, and maximum patient pricing. Anything currently under 5908 for salvage, or 100K for recipe, will be bought nao for those prices. NAO CRAFTED [I actually did this right NAO]- bid creeping from 50% of lowest till buy, in 10% increments: Damage/recharge 8,000,908 Damage/range 9,000,908 Damage/endurance 20,000,908 Accuracy/Damage 9,000,908 Acc/Dam/End 46,000,908 Total: 93 million, roughly. BUY IT NAO: [recipes- choosing highest of "last 5"]: Dam/Rech 7 mill Dam/Range 1 mill Dam/End 3 mill Acc/Dam 7 mill Acc/Dam/End 40 mill Plus salvage, assumed to be 3.5 million each, and crafting, .5 million each, and we get 78 million. That's on the high end, because I didn't actually check the buy prices on these to make a conversational point. [break to do an STF] If we look at the second-lowest sales, assuming you can reasonably get those prices with patient bidding: Dam/Rech 3 mill Dam/Range 0.5 mill Dam/End 1.5 mill Acc/Dam 3.5 mill Acc/Dam/End 18 mill So if we throw in the "BUY IT NAO" salvage plus crafting, est. at 4 million total per item, we get 46.5 million. If we assume 2 million per rare salvage, 55K per uncommon salvage, and 5k per common, we get 2.565 million crafting, per item, for a cost of about 13 million salvage and crafting, so around 39.5 million. Buying crafted NAO vs. bidding on five recipes and instabuying salvage: 98 million vs. 46.5 million. If we buy NAO the two cheapest recipes, we have to bid on three items and we're paying half as much, almost exactly. Notice that I didn't even check prices on the uncommon salvage. It might cost 100K, it might cost 500K, it might cost 5K. It's not going to make a dent compared to the price of the Dam/Acc/End . Surely you can leave bids on THREE items overnight? |
Now going back to the example you are presenting multiply that by 20 toss in the chance of making errors while bid creeping and you can see why buy it nao or buy SOs is actually better for most people. Unless you are someone who spent their lives trying to eliminate pennies from production costs (Which describes me perfectly) telling someone to bidcreep a hundred times in a video game about punching villains is going to be off the wall.
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This is why when I have someone who needs a full set, I usually use those 14 or so slots to work and bid on blocks of 5 to 10 of what I need. Then I log back in a week or two (hey, I have a fair number of alts...) and see what I've got. Generally I will have picked up most if not all of the set I needed, and usually in multiples. I then craft them and either put it in storage in the base or put them back out on the market.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Now lets take a look at your positrons blast example
If you want to get the recipes at anything but buy it nao prices you are going to have to wait and wait. I am pretty certain every piece in the set requires at least 1 rare and IIRC there aren't any pieces you can make with less than 4 pieces of salvage. The base character has 16 slots ? @50. So they need 5 slots for patient bidding another 5 for patient bidding on the rare salvage. Uncommon salvage seems to be a target for manipulation lately so call it 2 slots for patient bidding there and call it another 2 of the 10 common pieces you can't just buy and ignore. At that point you have 14 out of 16 market slots tied up bidding for one set. You may need several of these for your build. How long it takes for this dead time to resolve and how often you have to go through it really determines if its more efficient to just buy it nao. Edit: SOs are the best buy in terms of my use of time and money and market opportunity. Spending a few 100k for the changes of SOs I need when I need them, and being able to play what I want when I want is well worth it. |
So if you are going to tie up the market slots, I figure you might as well tie up those slots with multiple bids. Almost all of the time, buying three sets and selling two pays for the third.
In fact, I think I still have about 20 or so Damage/Ranges recipes that I picked up for under 5k. Time to get to work!
RE: SOs, I agree. Great bargain from levels 22 onward, although I will usually replace them with IO commons as they drop for me after 35 or so.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html
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No, that's not a PL. A PL is standing in a farm map and getting a 50 to mow down easy spawns over and over.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
PL = Playing in a full size team running radios and tfs that are max level as they become available ?
Time efficient = Playing a second game to play the first, or taking more RL time to play the game. |
The time I spend bidding on salvage + recipes and crafting what I need to outfit a character is extremely small compared to the time it takes getting to 50 doing missions as you describe. At absolute most, I probably spend an hour per character on the activities that I need to add in buying recipes + salvage over and above what I would spend buying crafted enhancers outright. At extremely productive, non-PL paces, people are spending something like 100 hours of actual playtime getting from 1-50, assuming they don't also do something weird like only play when they have 10 bars of Patrol XP to spend.
So I'm adding 1% to that playtime, on characters that I usually end up playing for a couple thousand hours apiece. In exchchange, I pay like 1/2 to 2/3 the price. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing the inefficiency. It's my opinion that if you consider that a meaningful time inefficiency, that's a sign of vast impatience.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Im not saying whats efficient or not, but if i only have an hour to play i can run 4 AE BM farms. Get 6000 tickets, unless i log both accounts then i have 12k tix. I normally roll silver and bronze. I get crap rolls but i get just as many good rolls. (enuff to keep me doing it, lol)|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
No, that's not a PL. A PL is standing in a farm map and getting a 50 to mow down easy spawns over and over.
The time I spend bidding on salvage + recipes and crafting what I need to outfit a character is extremely small compared to the time it takes getting to 50 doing missions as you describe. At absolute most, I probably spend an hour per character on the activities that I need to add in buying recipes + salvage over and above what I would spend buying crafted enhancers outright. At extremely productive, non-PL paces, people are spending something like 100 hours of actual playtime getting from 1-50, assuming they don't also do something weird like only play when they have 10 bars of Patrol XP to spend. So I'm adding 1% to that playtime, on characters that I usually end up playing for a couple thousand hours apiece. In exchchange, I pay like 1/2 to 2/3 the price. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing the inefficiency. It's my opinion that if you consider that a meaningful time inefficiency, that's a sign of vast impatience. |
Some say farms are inefficient, but i can't complain with what i have earned for myself. To each their own. However they choose to spend an hour is on them, but id rather kill stuff than mess with the market. Unless im posting the recipes i just rolled for 222 and some fast inf.
Last night for example, i got 2 ToD, 1 Perf Shift end proc, and a -kb IO to sell. Dropped them off for 222 each and made over 50mil. In less than an hour. (not counting the cheap stuff. i just deleted them)
Another_Fan: Maybe we need to back up and restate our positions. Because it sounds to me like you're complaining about the number of things you need to leave bids on, and then you're leaving bids on things where it makes a trivial difference in total inf spent.
It sounds to you like I'm advocating one hundred bid creeps, which doesn't sound like anything I remember saying.
My view is this: If you BUY IT NAO on the small things, and bid with a small amount of patience on the large things, you can get a build at roughly half price (compared to buying everything, now, crafted) and bid patiently on surprisingly few items. That may be nuanced, but if intelligence means anything it's the ability to make subtle distinctions.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Tickets are almost as bad as the market if you are trying to get good use out of them.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
Im not saying whats efficient or not, but if i only have an hour to play i can run 4 AE BM farms. Get 6000 tickets, unless i log both accounts then i have 12k tix. I normally roll silver and bronze. I get crap rolls but i get just as many good rolls. (enuff to keep me doing it, lol)
Some say farms are inefficient, but i can't complain with what i have earned for myself. To each their own. However they choose to spend an hour is on them, but id rather kill stuff than mess with the market. Unless im posting the recipes i just rolled for 222 and some fast inf. Last night for example, i got 2 ToD, 1 Perf Shift end proc, and a -kb IO to sell. Dropped them off for 222 each and made over 50mil. In less than an hour. (not counting the cheap stuff. i just deleted them) |
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
No, that's not a PL. A PL is standing in a farm map and getting a 50 to mow down easy spawns over and over.
The time I spend bidding on salvage + recipes and crafting what I need to outfit a character is extremely small compared to the time it takes getting to 50 doing missions as you describe. At absolute most, I probably spend an hour per character on the activities that I need to add in buying recipes + salvage over and above what I would spend buying crafted enhancers outright. At extremely productive, non-PL paces, people are spending something like 100 hours of actual playtime getting from 1-50, assuming they don't also do something weird like only play when they have 10 bars of Patrol XP to spend. So I'm adding 1% to that playtime, on characters that I usually end up playing for a couple thousand hours apiece. In exchchange, I pay like 1/2 to 2/3 the price. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing the inefficiency. It's my opinion that if you consider that a meaningful time inefficiency, that's a sign of vast impatience. |
I'd suggest using a stopwatch when you are there. I take between 300-500 mil out of the market on a daily basis but there is no way that can be described as quick. Purchasing is something I only do on alts I'm not playing, matter of fact marketeering is something only done on alts im not playing. Its the only way I know of to avoid market constipation.
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If you are using the character you are playing actively to try and purchase off level items in most of the cases you will be waiting even longer and tie up slots for longer periods of time. You will likely save on the purchase price but you will lose opportunities to sell or store things you will need. |
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
So I guess the only conclusion I can draw here is that if you ignore the market and IOs until you're 50, you're stuck with a choice between paying buy it nao prices and waiting "forever" to finish your build. I agree with that conclusion, however I fail to see how it has anything to do with player greed or indicates any kind of problem with the market.
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I can usually level to 50 in the time it takes for a 30 exemplar build to fill.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
Another_Fan: Maybe we need to back up and restate our positions. Because it sounds to me like you're complaining about the number of things you need to leave bids on, and then you're leaving bids on things where it makes a trivial difference in total inf spent.
It sounds to you like I'm advocating one hundred bid creeps, which doesn't sound like anything I remember saying. My view is this: If you BUY IT NAO on the small things, and bid with a small amount of patience on the large things, you can get a build at roughly half price (compared to buying everything, now, crafted) and bid patiently on surprisingly few items. That may be nuanced, but if intelligence means anything it's the ability to make subtle distinctions. |
Im not really complaining. Its more an observation of why buy it nao makes sense for most people. I do know that marketeering in general takes longer than most people think it does, and much of what you have to do be effective is game breaking for people that play characters and not corporations.
From a personal standpoint I have the retired characters and the inf to put out bids and leave them out indefinitely. Matter of fact longterm lowballs are one of the few good uses of surplus inf that I have found.
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Just to be clear, I was responding to A_F. (I actually have him on ignore, but I responded to something someone else quoted him as saying, so I've been revealing his posts to reply to them. It's completely fair to say you're doing something because you don't like the alternative. Efficiency, though, is usually a statement about objective, numerically calculable quantities. I was debating the statement that doing anything other than paying "buy it nao" on pre-crafted items was inefficient. |
Originally Posted by eryq2
Im not saying whats efficient or not, but if i only have an hour to play i can run 4 AE BM farms. Get 6000 tickets, unless i log both accounts then i have 12k tix. I normally roll silver and bronze. I get crap rolls but i get just as many good rolls. (enuff to keep me doing it, lol)
Some say farms are inefficient, but i can't complain with what i have earned for myself. To each their own. However they choose to spend an hour is on them, but id rather kill stuff than mess with the market. Unless im posting the recipes i just rolled for 222 and some fast inf. |
Honestly, "buy it nao" is something you can choose to do or not do whether you buy crafted enhancements or raw recipes, so the question really boils down to the added time overhead of crafting. At most, I estimate that the time I personally spend on crafting is, at the absolute most generous, 1% of the time it takes fast-leveling (but not PL-ing) people to get to 50. Contrasting that with the savings it gives me, and how that could easily translate into time not spent earning money, I question the objective efficiency it really represents.
Whether it's any fun is, by my way of thinking, a completely different question. Avoiding doing something because you dislike doing it is not something I usually file under efficiency.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Self control, and I have no doubt you will gladly squirm around on a definition.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Just to be clear, I was responding to A_F. (I actually have him on ignore, but I responded to something someone else quoted him as saying, so I've been revealing his posts to reply to them. It's completely fair to say you're doing something because you don't like the alternative. Efficiency, though, is usually a statement about objective, numerically calculable quantities. I was debating the statement that doing anything other than paying "buy it nao" on pre-crafted items was inefficient.
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Because there is no correct answer for marketeering vs. farming or buy it now vs. waiting, I'll just drop in my reasonings...
I don't particularly enjoy marketeering. I don't find it entertaining in the way smashing bad guys is, but, truth be told, I don't really dislike it either. Marketeering is still my number one option, though, because as much as I like smashing bad guys, I can't stand farming or grinding. It's boring going around the exact same map against the exact same bad guys you cherry picked so that they provide next to no resistance. Marketeering gets me around this, 5 to 10 minutes at the start or at the end of my playing session and I get my monies while being able to skip essentially all the "dumb" stuff you have to do in order to earn influence.
Marketeering is also a very nice way of earning inf for lazy people like me. You can check your one and only marketeer every two days and still make a very respectable bunch of influence. I don't even bother trying to flip stuff because crafting is much easier and also gets me absurd profits. Someone wants to pay me 10mil so that I craft their enhancement? Deal!
Waiting for stuff to come by is something I often do. I'm a quite patient person and I also hate "throwing money away", so waiting for bids is my way of doing it. I don't usually bid creep, I just bid around 60-75% of the last five, or put just above the lowest one of them if it has been significantly lower than the others. This usually gets me my stuff in few days or a week at most which I don't think is at all unreasonable. I do just buy stuff, too. If it costs less than ten million and I'm planning on using it myself, I might just as well buy it right now. After all, I'm at most saving a few million which is often very close to nothing when comparing against the price of the full build.
Waiting for bids also has another good effect. I don't have to craft my whole build at once, it does get a bit tedious when you're crafting 50+ different IOs in a row, especially if you have 20 recipes which are lacking that one component because there are so few for sale or you just don't want to spend that much on common salvage.
As for hating crafting, I don't really understand it unless you really have an exorbitant amount of influence stashed away. If you bought your recipe "right nao", surely you can spend a few million or a few hundred thousand to buy your salvage "right nao", too. If you didn't buy it "right nao" then surely you can wait an hour more to get your salvage. It takes all of half a minute to go craft a single IO from places like Steel Canyon WW or Cap BM. That half a minute of crafting could save you an hour of farming. Even if it saved you 15 minutes of farming, multiply that with however many IOs you're using for your build and the time saved becomes quite significant.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
Put a fluid level on top and hammer shim stock under the edges.
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You like to accuse me of this, but every time we get into a death spiral on a topic, I try very hard not to dance around, but instead to explain exactly what I'm saying. That usually requires saying the same thing over and over in different ways, trying to find one that gets the point across. Instead of that proving useful in the debate, you use it to accuse me of "squirming around". *shrug* That's not why I have you on ignore, though.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Self control, and I have no doubt you will gladly squirm around on a definition.
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Given that someone else quoted you posting something I thought it I worth responding to, I don't see responding to you as a self-control issue. Since I started responding to you, you haven't done the thing(s) for which I have you on ignore. If you start doing them again. I'll just stop responding to you here. Believe it or not, I'd prefer it didn't reach that point.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Oh, i know you were talking to him. I just thought id toss my 2 cents, err 1.5, lol.
I personally don't mind farming. An alternative could be running radios at 0x8. The only major diff is time running to mishes and having to use vators. Ive been on teams (with globals) running radios and it felt like a PL. We ran purples and i leveled just as fast. But i won't pug so i get stuck farming when noones on.
As far as crafting vs. "nao", i just buy all my IOs crafted. I don't use IOs until i hit 50 (mainly because 20-40 is hard to come by) and by then i have sooooo many recipes to buy, crafting all of them takes 2 days. Ive done it once.
@ A.F. i get very good use out of tickets. That's where 90% of my billions came from. And i don't even craft those. I sell them for 222 mostly. Guess i just get lucky drops, but at 12k tix atta time im bound to get something good. Cept for the purples i've sold but now days i just hoard them to avoid paying whatever the inflation will be on my next 50. From 200mil to 500 since my last 50, i won't pay those prices. So i'll just bin 'em til i need 'em.
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Hyperbole doesn't convince me. I find it impossible to believe it took you 48 hours to craft at most 100 recipes. It takes about half a minute to a minute getting all the salvage for a recipe, 10 seconds to get to university from Steel/Cap WW/BM and then maybe another half a minute to craft 10 IOs. At best, that's about an hour for everything and at worst it's slightly less than double that.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
As far as crafting vs. "nao", i just buy all my IOs crafted. I don't use IOs until i hit 50 (mainly because 20-40 is hard to come by) and by then i have sooooo many recipes to buy, crafting all of them takes 2 days. Ive done it once.
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If it really bothers you that much, I suggest being more patient with bids. As I said earlier, if you don't get everything at once you don't have to craft everything at once either. Saves you money, time and tedium. Then again, if you really enjoy farming it's a moot point.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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Tickets are very good. I personally prefer purple farming, or merit/new merit farming. Just a matter of taste.
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Originally Posted by eryq2
@ A.F. i get very good use out of tickets. That's where 90% of my billions came from. And i don't even craft those. I sell them for 222 mostly. Guess i just get lucky drops, but at 12k tix atta time im bound to get something good. Cept for the purples i've sold but now days i just hoard them to avoid paying whatever the inflation will be on my next 50. From 200mil to 500 since my last 50, i won't pay those prices. So i'll just bin 'em til i need 'em. |
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are you one of those unfortunates that has to input data via eyeblinks, or something?|
Originally Posted by eryq2
As far as crafting vs. "nao", i just buy all my IOs crafted. I don't use IOs until i hit 50 (mainly because 20-40 is hard to come by) and by then i have sooooo many recipes to buy, crafting all of them takes 2 days. Ive done it once.
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Because crafting junk in this game is about as difficult and time consuming as turning on the teevee.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Im not sure i said i didn't do it because it was difficult. Or at least i don't think i did. But it is time consuming. Or at least longer than turning on my tv. Hmm, i think... |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
are you one of those unfortunates that has to input data via eyeblinks, or something?
Because crafting junk in this game is about as difficult and time consuming as turning on the teevee. |
If i have 100 recipes to buy, thats around 300-500 pieces of salvage. You can't hold that many at once so it requires multiple trips to the base and back, checking to make sure you have enough of each salvage for each recipe (sucks when u think u need 4 and go to craft and u needed 5 grr), then bid creeping 500 items. If it ISN'T time consuming i don't know what is. Even when i buy it nao at a rate over the last 5, it don't fill right away.
I do keep alot of recipes in bins, but it depends on what toons as to what IOs i need. Scrappers vary from Doms or Trollers. What im not able to get via rolls or farming purples, i have to go to WW.
Like i said, i have a family and a full time job. When i have time to "play" i don't want to spend it looking at the market. I know that may be hard to understand for some people. But everyones circumstances are different just like playstyles. But getting IOs forces you to use the market in some degree. I'd rather just be able to buy them by the set via some type of new system. A
Any more questions or statements? Ill check back in a bit. Can't wait....
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That's how you level the market, not balance it. |
Originally Posted by Scooby_Dont
Put a fluid level on top and hammer shim stock under the edges.
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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I agree, that does sound like it would take a lot of time. I sometimes put in a cheap bid and go run a mission, but usually NAO prices are well worth the convenience.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
then bid creeping 500 items. If it ISN'T time consuming i don't know what is
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it always amuses me in other threads when someone starts ranting about all the "idiots" who are too stupid to bid-creep and ruining the game for everyone else because of how we cause inflation. I imagine these are the same folks who drive 30 minutes to the other side of town to save $.05 on a gallon of gas.
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Especially when some crafted items are the same as uncrafted. derrr. lol. Not many, but i always compare. If its only a 5mil inf difference, i can't justify it when the rare salvage alone will eat up 1/2 that. Now, if its a 20mil or better difference, ill grab the recipe. lol.
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Originally Posted by Jim_G
I agree, that does sound like it would take a lot of time. I sometimes put in a cheap bid and go run a mission, but usually NAO prices are well worth the convenience.
it always amuses me in other threads when someone starts ranting about all the "idiots" who are too stupid to bid-creep and ruining the game for everyone else because of how we cause inflation. I imagine these are the same folks who drive 30 minutes to the other side of town to save $.05 on a gallon of gas. |
I bet not half as bad as when I outsourced my development staff to Bangalore in the 90s.