How you would balance the Market?

Heck, I'd be happy with #2 OR #4 !

haven't read the long thread, but hoping the devs may see this...

VENDOR what needs to be balanced.

OK, vendoring purple sets would be a bit extreme, but how about Common Salvage? AE only allows random rolls for common salvage. Mid level common salvage like Alchemic Silvers never go below 100k because I have a placeholder bid that never wins. Common salvage just shouldn't be going for that high, considering they're used in common recipes that are cheap (and can be bought through a vendor).

So, devs, please start selling Common Invention Salvage at vendors! (or at the least, allow specific buys in AE)

That doesn't address the situation of spending billyuns on a single build, but I currently don't have a problem with that. Hard core players need to have something to spend their rewards on. The casual player is still competent. Just not uber.

Alchemical Silvers are used in two of the most commonly slotted generic IO's: Accuracy and Defense. Demand is legitimately high. (Compare: Iron, used for generic damage and four unloved mezzes.) Alch Silver floats these days around 130-200K. If you set the vendor price at 10K, for instance, you'd remove LESS inf from the system than the Went sales and increase inflation MORE.

... of course, buying 93 Alch Silvers, one for each slot, removes under 2 million inf from the game; buying one BoTZ: KB at 30 million removes 3 million inf from the game. This is not The Answer.

Incidentally, just buying-from-table and crafting a L40 Accuracy is about 170K* excluding cost of salvage, so even 150K for ingredients is not totally unreasonable.

*I know, if it's memorized that becomes about 50K. Stay in school, memorize stuff!

Okay, serious answer:

Addon API, more market slots.

Let people list more things, buy more things, and collect historical data, and even if only some of them do it, it'll stabilize the market hugely.

Interesting point. I'm actually more interested in the API's implications. I like to antiflip stuff (buy at 123 or 1234, list at 1) in vast quantities to try to improve pricing, and I'd do a lot more of it if it weren't so click-and-type heavy.

One thing this game needs, IMO, is something to spend inf on other than enhancements. How about extending the SG base concept to personal apartments?

The solution, as I see it is simple.

Let's say a new set came out for one of the new 5th tier travel powers, like Afterburner.

Let's call this set Widgets. Widgets has 6 enhancements to choose from. Like the rest, you need at least two of them to see any type of bonus.

Widgets A, B, C, D, E, F

Widgets F is, of course, a proc. Some folks love them, others not so much.

What's it worth? Well, it's worth as much as someone is willing to pay.
Because of the way the market is set up (Wentworths), you might only ask 100 influence and receive 100,000,000 influence for it.
The next person to sell approaches the market with some uncertainty. He's not sure it's worth 100,000,000. This next person may not have the up front fee needed to sell it for that much. Besides, he's not greedy. It was dropped on him battling a troll. There are thousands of trolls, surely he'll get another one some time soon. So, he sells for 50,000,001.

Well the next buyer sees only 1 for sale, and notices that the last sold for 100,000,000. What's he going to bid on it for? 100 inf? Sure. But, he doesn't get it. But, he leaves the bid, and bids again for 100,000 inf.
Still, no action. He re-bids for 1,000,000. No action.

He decides that there's nothing in the game worth over 1 million inf, leaves his bids and goes.
Some impatient guy, loaded with inf places a bid for 100 million and gets his new widgets enhancement.

So now, the history shows two people thought this thing was worth 100million.

BUT IS IT REALLY WORTH THAT MUCH?

The answer is yes - only to two people - so far.


So, what is my simple solution? Take away the history. Nobody will know how much anything is worth until their bid buys it.

The best part is nobody will know how much their item is worth when they sell it until someone buys it.

We might all "know" or remember that LGTF 7.5% go for 150 to 200 mill.

But, what if we didn't? How much would we sell it for? Would we sell it at all?

And this newer Issue 21 tier 5 speed power - that when used recharges all of your powers instantly - will they be worth less? or even more - because people will want this power- - who wouldn't want to use hasten, then this power, and then stack hasten right away? All they'd need would be 60% global recharge to have that 200% and the first would recharge before the second expired. Granted, this wouldn't be perma, but it would be very handy.
But, I'm digressing.

Take away the history of the transactions. Then, the folks that don't mind putting a bid in for a zillion inf can do so. The thrifty will do so. The greedy player will be out his placement fee. The reasonable player will make a sale.

Just my opinion, folks, I could be wrong.

Ukaserex [sp?]:

What's the problem that you have a solution for? Because what I'm seeing is Game Working As Intended.

You gave an example. You gave a solution. You never stated the problem as you saw it and I'm not seeing it. Maybe I've been living in the shark tank too long; explain what you're trying to solve and I'll tell you if I think it's a problem, and if I think your solution will work.

It seems to me like if you took away the history, more new kids would get taken advantage of by more marketeers. I could be missing something. Anyway, I don't see that as an improvement.

My reasoning, if it's not obvious: There are basically two prices for any item: Sell It Nao and Buy It Nao. The more people are competing in a given market, the closer the prices get; the closer the prices, get, the less people compete in a given market. (It is true that some items sell between the two prices, but most prices are either "sell it for what i can get" or "Buy it for what it costs right now/ pay what most other people did".)

The history is a flag that says to me, "Compete here!" And I do.

When I hear people mention things like "balancing the market", I cringe. Personally, if I were going to do anything at all to the market, there is only one thing I would do. If an item is posted for an amount lower than what a vendor pays for it, the item just automatically sells, on the spot, for the vendor payout amount. This would eliminate stuff being bought for 10 inf that a vendor pays 1000 inf for.

How is that gonna lower prices? It won't. But then again, that's not what the change would be aiming to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".

The problem with market "balance" argument is that it treats the goods as a homogenous entity, while they're anything but. High-level salvage, for example, is often in high supply and low demand* because once slotted, Lv50 characters have a continuing supply of salvage with no need to replace their enhancements, whilst lower level IOs are more "transient" and thus have a much higher replacement rate.

My suggestion would be an inspiration-style conversion system, much like what we saw with base salvage - convert three {or more} identical pieces of one type of salvage {or recipes} into one piece of salvage of the same rarity. That way, it might be possible to balance out the disparity between items which are in absurdly high demand, and ones which are in absurdly high supply, while a net material loss would keep the goods from being completely interchangeable.


*hell, I think I broke the Lv50 damage market just by mass-producing thousands of IOs from cheap demon reports and kinetic weapons
**and recipe pool categories and whatever else they might be grouped by

An open letter to NCsoft

1st: Put a small note in the Black Market (or Wentworth's for the heroes) box, reminding players that they can purchase salvage with Mission Architect Tickets, instead of paying up to 300,000 or more for Uncommon Salvage such as Steel or Alchemical Gold. For example, both are available on the top floor of the Architect Entertainment building for only 80 Mission Architect Tickets. You can usually earn around 80 or more Mission Architect Tickets in a single mission, even on a small map, like the ones I have. One of mine is to blow off steam at the bugs and nerfs in the game, the other is just for fun and a glimpse of how I see humans.

2nd: Re-set the salvage bins in our bases to their previous capacities. Having only 30 capacity for each bin is ridiculous.

3rd: A global invention salvage vault of sorts, for invention salvage of 1,000 item capacity would be very helpful, and appreciated, even if it is only for the VIP players. Or at the very least, a few hundred. Doing it for incarnate salvage would help, also, while we're on the subject, as some people prefer to do many of the higher level trials, task forces and strike forces on certain characters, and not others, and they could then put whatever extra incarnate salvage that they do not need for the character they earned it on in their global incarnate salvage vault for their other characters to use.

Some are opposed to additional salvage storage for invention salvage, but, if it is restricted to only VIP players, that should help somewhat, and, the market should re-balance in very little time. With the note added to the Black Market and Wentworth's windows, this should also help curb an upper limit on invention salvage prices as they are reminded that they can make enough Mission Architect Tickets to purchase that particular item in only a few minutes inside of a mission.

If I was going to put a note in Wents that said anything, it would say something like "Bids often fill if left up overnight." [Some people, like me, don't mind paying 300K for salvage. I know of at least one item that you can instabuy the recipe and ingredients for under 3 million, that sells for 30 million crafted. It's been doing this for a week. I'm running a convenience store.]

Let someone who cares figure it out. In the mean time. I'll keep burning influence.

Assuming developer resource was not a problem I would "balance" the market by making an off line version. I would make it a game in and of itself, called something like "Wentworths Day Trader." The conceit would be that you are a special broker hired by Wentworths to look after the interests of a number of clients from a variety of different dimensions i.e. all your characters. It would track how much money you have made for Wentworths*

The idea being that you could log into a browser, access all your characters' goodies, move them around and buy and sell on the market. It would also give improved visibility of selling prices and track them over time, like a proper financial web site.

It would probably mean the end of flipping but I am sure ebil marketeers would come up with other money making schemes.

It would also mean I could play the market over lunch time at work and not during my "game time" which would be a serious win for me.


*The Blackmarket too, but we all know Wentworths runs the BM right?

Hmm... why would I want to "balance" the market? Well, if I did, I'd go after the information side of things.

Currently, one can see the last five "sold at" prices and the date they sold at. I'd add the offered prices they had, as well, and their original posting dates. Then, to compound it, I'd show up to five of the current lowest offers and their posting dates. "Six X's posted four days ago for sale at 100 were sold yesterday at 112." Yes, you could pick one of those prices and just buy it if you wanted. Then, I'd show up five of the current highest bids and their posting dates, too. Yes, if you wanted to sell your stuff immediately, you could offer for sale at or below those to get an instant sale.

This would make a market that was much more efficient at trading items for inf. These aren't huge changes to imagine, so why wasn't the market put together like this in the beginning? Because our current market is more fun. It has surprises; it offers prizes for being clever; it lets you compete with other players in a number of ways; and it rewards study and patience, without demanding one become a day-trader.

I think the unbalanced market we have is better, because imbalance is fun.

Serious suggestions? The two billion inf cap needs to go. I recognize that would not be easy or even something the devs would consider -- too little payoff for the number of bugs throughout the game it would create. It would be better if we could trade things in larger stacks, it's hard to reach the market equilibrium price on rice when you're required to trade ten rice grains per transaction.