Trapdoor is getting harder.
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-12-11 24:11 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Guess what? You're the one who said the 5% hit chance was a moot point. When, in fact, it wasn't. Here, check it out.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Speaking of making things up, when have I ever claimed, in this or any other thread, that NPCs ever had less than a 5% chance to hit? This has nothing to do with the points I have made in here. Nothing.
If he hits right through purples, then this makes hash of everyone's boast to "just bring 50 Lucks in there and you'll be ok!" If he can hit through Lucks they are of limited utility - in fact I did not find them very useful. If the Curse of Weariness can run through an entire tray of blues in two minutes, this makes blues not all that useful when fighting Holtz. Elementary concept. If Trappy never lands his Total-Focus [or whatever it is]-O'-Doom on any of your alts, outstanding. I am happy for you. That does not mean 1. That it does not exist, and 2. that he cannot land it on you multiple times during the same encounter. He sure landed it on my Defender and also on my Stalker, more than once. Everyone else without heavy shielding brought a temp power when solo and BOOM, "mission complete." Problem solved. And intent of mission? Massive fail. |
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I'll get back to you when a grey-conning Hellion is a problem for me on a mission arc, or when I have to consume four Lucks in order to try & stop him from hitting me. Until then, I don't really think Brawl from a grey-con is that big of a deal, nor does it validate your idea that this somehow, some way has a thing to do with my feedback regarding the Mender Ramiel arc.
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... no, you know what? Screw it. You won't listen anyway. Have fun with your characters.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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That's what I remember being told when it was introduced, but that has never been how it worked.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
i thought the one-shot code was supposed to be based on all the damage from a single entity/attack in a single server tick.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I'm sorry, but I have a hard time accepting that anecdote without more info. What powersets? What powers did you use? I have a video in this thread to back up my experience. Can you offer us anything to compare?|
Originally Posted by StarKitten
I ran this before maint. with my controller. He took all of 10 seconds to take down. I notice no change in difficulty. *shrugs* And my toon has a lot of empty slots, the majority of my slots filled with generic IO's. I have 0 sets.
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Edit: Also, what difficulty? Was he a +0 or a -1?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
laid the smackdown on Trappy with my fire/axe tank last night, no big deal. Wailed on him until he bifurctaed, jumped around to find the thing and kill it, rinse and repeat.
Was helped out when he fell into the lava chasing after me.
I'll try him with one of my less efficient soloers next.
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My City Was Gone
Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, +0/x3 (not that I think x3 matters once you get to him). One death, lots of jumping around. Helped somewhat by the lava.
Defeated 20 bifurcations in the process, including a handful that spawned coming back from the hospital (a couple of which I missed at first which didn't help).
I'm not so sure I'd like to do this on my NRG/Kin corr. Ice/MM blaster, perhaps - might be able to hold him.
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He is not difficult on a Tank. My DB/elec Tank lured him down into the lava, backed him into a corner and proceeded to tear him to shreds. |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
laid the smackdown on Trappy with my fire/axe tank last night, no big deal. Wailed on him until he bifurctaed, jumped around to find the thing and kill it, rinse and repeat.
Was helped out when he fell into the lava chasing after me. I'll try him with one of my less efficient soloers next. |
It was on unshielded alts that I was having problems with him, because he hits extremely hard if you are unshielded. I am having some difficulty accepting StarKitten's anecdote that she went in there on a Controller with many empty enhancement slots, no IO sets and beat him in 10 seconds flat.
I helped a Inv/SS Tanker with Trapdoor last night. When I arrived in the mission there were about half a dozen or so clones standing around. We went around the room 2-shotting them then went after Trapdoor.
He bifurcated once while we were attacking him. We ignored it and continued pounding. Trapdoor was defeated moments later. My impression from the Tanker was that he had been working on Trapdoor for quite a while by himself before I came in.
Sounds to me like his regen rate from the clones is hell if you're alone, but add even one person and it's not a problem. Sadly I've already completed the Ramiel arc on all my 50's. I'd love to see just how tough Trapdoor has become for the soloist.
I do sort of wish that Arcanaville or someone else with too much statistical sense would chime in on this thread and maybe tell us all something we're missing and/or haven't datamined.
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I'm pretty sure it does have to be coded as two separate shots, but who know how his TF is coded?|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
i thought the one-shot code was supposed to be based on all the damage from a single entity/attack in a single server tick. So the attack could do six different types of damage for five times your hp, but it won't take you below 1 hit point. Of course any sort of DoT, even a single damage tick delayed by a half second, will be unaffected by the one shot code.
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Also, I did NOT say pulling was cheating. I said taking him away from his clones was cheating, and that cheat has now been prevented. Pull him all you want.
So much whining in this thread about an encounter that is not hard.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
helped out a friend in a SG channel with Trapdoor a few hours ago, needless to say, his health bar did no significant moving till he and the other person on the team took out his clones.
also, maybe I was just imagining things, but I swear the clones were granting him +res as well.
this was with a two scrappers and a kin def
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Some people insist that soloing AVs isn't hard, too.|
Originally Posted by Wavicle
So much whining in this thread about an encounter that is not hard.
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At -1 level (prior to the patch - I have yet to reattempt the mission due to disillusionment), Trapdoor lasted against my Electric blaster for the duration of two-three consecutive Defense inspirations (so, 2-3 minutes if I recall the duration of enhancements correctly) with me constantly blasting him between two/three-shotting his bifurcations and his health never even went down as far as 75%. After my purple inspirations ran out, he took me out in 2-3 shots. Perhaps that was anomalous behaviour, but it certainly seems extraordinarily difficult to me.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Tenzhi, go get a Vanguard HVAS. With your setting at -1 and a HVAS this is definitely completable. And my sympathies.... I've know how disenheartening this encounter is when you are using a relatively low damage character.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Some people insist that soloing AVs isn't hard, too.
At -1 level (prior to the patch - I have yet to reattempt the mission due to disillusionment), Trapdoor lasted against my Electric blaster for the duration of two-three consecutive Defense inspirations (so, 2-3 minutes if I recall the duration of enhancements correctly) with me constantly blasting him between two/three-shotting his bifurcations and his health never even went down as far as 75%. After my purple inspirations ran out, he took me out in 2-3 shots. Perhaps that was anomalous behaviour, but it certainly seems extraordinarily difficult to me. |
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More hairsplitting: the entire point of pulling Trappy is to remove him from proximity to his clones, so sorry, what you are indeed saying is that pulling is "cheating." |
Originally Posted by Wavicle
Also, I did NOT say pulling was cheating. I said taking him away from his clones was cheating, and that cheat has now been prevented.
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I find that hilarious, myself and I think it is dangerous to have the developers thinking this is a good idea - but YOU like it, you and I think Nalrok AaaChoo likes the idea too, so who cares what the rest of the playerbase thinks, you have it like you want it so all is right with the world. Yay!
Yeah, god forbid the devs try something new with a boss...nah, much better they stick with the bag o' hps
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
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I'll say this again: All of these "new" fights/AV/EBs/what have you, be it Trapdoor, Battle Maiden, Boobcat, they're still bags of HP and damage. They're still bloated up to being ridiculously tougher and harder hitting than they should be, but the devs force us to jump through a gimmick hoop on top of that for nothing. They are no less a time sink and they do not even reciprocate in increased rewards proportional to the increased effort required.|
Originally Posted by Furio
Yeah, god forbid the devs try something new with a boss...nah, much better they stick with the bag o' hps
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If it was an either-or proposition, that would be another story; brute force it and face a typical drawn out moderate-hard EB fight OR find a sneaky trick like dropping the roof on top of him or flooding the chamber with lava. That would actually be kind of cool.
But no, that's not what this is. This guy is roughly a typical EB in terms of power (when there are players, ATs and combos who that is already a tall order for) with the added hassle of the bifurcation schtick. I'm not down with that at all.
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You are free to believe that I didn't do what I claim, if you want. It makes really no difference to me. The toon is a Fire/Rad/Fire on generic IO's, about 15 slots completely void of anything at all. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I'm sorry, but I have a hard time accepting that anecdote without more info. What powersets? What powers did you use? I have a video in this thread to back up my experience. Can you offer us anything to compare?
Edit: Also, what difficulty? Was he a +0 or a -1? |
When you're on a toon that has 5 holds/disorients, its not all that difficult to hold the bastage outright. And then there's hot feet, choking cloud, the imps...
Uh, not everyone videotapes their gaming session. I wouldn't have the faintest clue *how* to do such a thing. And with my computer, I doubt I could, anyways. I can't even dual box without my PC locking up hard.
Default settings. X0 +0.
Again, you can believe whatever you want. Oh, I had no trouble with my scrapper, either.
"Certain it is and sure: love burns, ale burns, fire burns, politics burns, but cold were life without them." - Romulan proverb
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He's taking issue with your "I killed him in 10 seconds" claim on a Controller.
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Yes, a solo controller killing Trapdoor within 10 seconds is hard to believe. My Ill/Rad easily beats most EBs, including Trapdoor, but it takes a bit longer than 10 seconds...
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
He's taking issue with you're "I killed him in 10 seconds flat" claim on a Controller.
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Oi, perhaps it was more like 20. I didn't keep a timer running. But he fell very quickly.
Believe it or not. *shrugs* I don't really care. And I'm not going to be pulled into a "did not!" "did too!" arugment on the internet. Not even going to bother looking at this thread again.
Have a great Christmas!
"Certain it is and sure: love burns, ale burns, fire burns, politics burns, but cold were life without them." - Romulan proverb
My Characters
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You're not down for a semi-challenging encounter, but you're down for an encounter that doesn't involve fighting at all?
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
If it was an either-or proposition, that would be another story; brute force it and face a typical drawn out moderate-hard EB fight OR find a sneaky trick like dropping the roof on top of him or flooding the chamber with lava. That would actually be kind of cool.
But no, that's not what this is. This guy is roughly a typical EB in terms of power (when there are players, ATs and combos who that is already a tall order for) with the added hassle of the bifurcation schtick. I'm not down with that at all. |
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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To be fair, soloing AVs isn't hard. For the most part, they're just big bags of HP and regen. If you can mitigate or outdamage that, and you can tolerate the incoming damage, then all you really need to do is stand there and wail on them.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Some people insist that soloing AVs isn't hard, too.
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Making a build that can do that, that's the (sometimes) hard part.
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Comparing soloing AV's and Trapdoor is completely different. I'm confident that pretty much any build can solo Trapdoor without temp powers.
I just completed the arc on my Arch/Kin Corr, and yes he's a little harder than before and I actually had to take out his clones for the first time. However, I still didn't find it 'hard' like people are saying. This was with just spamming Blazing Arrow and Snap Shot while ignoring my kin powers so I didn't have to deal with redraw. Archery isn't exactly known for its uber ST damage.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Actually Archer is ranked pretty high on the single target list. Right under Fire blast, due to high damaging, quick attacks, (and all of your single target goodness is at 80ft)|
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
...Archery isn't exactly known for its uber ST damage.
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Even on a corrupter or defender, which have lower damage then blasters. Just so ya know.
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I understand |
Originally Posted by StarKitten
Oi, perhaps it was more like 20. I didn't keep a timer running. But he fell very quickly.
Believe it or not. *shrugs* I don't really care. And I'm not going to be pulled into a "did not!" "did too!" arugment on the internet. Not even going to bother looking at this thread again. Have a great Christmas! |
I know he can be killed well within under a minute, my Broadsword Scrap did 
consecutive crits are very sexy.
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