A plee to the developers
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-12-05 18:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Inspirations are part of our abilities. Have been since the game launched. Managing your inspiration load is a skill. Look how many people express consternation that the 4-luck strategy didn't work all the time here.
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Potions have been part of Diablo for like 15 years. The fact that's it's gone on for a long time doesn't mean it's not what's not working(altho rumors suggest the next iteration won't have them).
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And when you play better it means you're worthy of the Incarnate rewards, and can finally sleep at night knowing you're a skilled player.
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
Nthed.
Having the TFs teach you to play better is awesome. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The thing that bugs me most about inspirations isn't really that the game is balanced around them, but rather that certain encounters seem to be balanced around medium or large inspirations which have no good way of being acquired. I don't mind EBs who need inspirations to fight. I can just pop out and visit a contact, the Arena, Pocket D, the Architec or, as of I19, a Field Medic or a Nurse. Or Mender Snidley Whiplash in Ourobors, if all else fails. If I fail, it's a simple matter of visiting them again to restock and try again.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Potions have been part of Diablo for like 15 years. The fact that's it's gone on for a long time doesn't mean it's not what's not working(altho rumors suggest the next iteration won't have them).
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If, on the other hand, I burn several large inspirations, screw up and die anyway, those are GONE. I really hate one-shot deals like these, and I doubly hate rare consumables.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Really? I walked up and point-blank shot him in the face with Fire Blasts until he died. Fire/Cold is good but its not that good.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Trapdoor is a very simplistic version of this. You can have all the IOs in the world, but if you just stand there and try to beat him down, only the top DPS builds in the game might have a chance. Upping the difficulty doesn't change the need to use some strategy in that fight. I greatly hope the devs realize that they have to hold the line here on the endgame content or don't bother.
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Its end game content its supposed to not be a walk in the park. The only hard mission is the honoree mission and you are encouraged the form a team, you are facing two EBs/AVs. Why don't I hear people complaining that Maria Jenken's arc is too hard, its chalk full of AVs. If you aren't able to solo an AV, knock your difficulty down to an EB, take inspirations with you and if you aren't able to solo an EB with inspirations go get a TEAM.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Yes, forums. Do remember me, please.
Some tasks, yes. Some REWARDS, no. "MMO" as a term gets thrown around willy-nilly, but all that means is a large, persistent world that we all share. The term does not inherently assume that we have to interact with each other, and the decision to FORCE interaction is development prerogative. The decision to EXCLUDE solo play is just the same. I have no problem with TFs and SFs as a general concept, unless they wholly and exclusively gate certain rewards. Right now, I can get everything I could possibly want from the Market, even if it's normally restricted to team-only content. Can't run Hamidon raids? That's OK, I can still buy Hamidon enhancements off the Market. Shards are this mechanic for the Incarnate system, and you'd THINK that solo-friendly, until you remember that it takes a fairly serious arc to unlock this. The Mender Ramiel arc is not a side TF that you can do or skip and which only provides a better, faster route to most rewards. It is the quintessential lock behind which THE ENTIRE INCARNATE SYSTEM resides. This arc will be attempted by absolutely everybody, of that you can be certain, and not everyone will be able to walk right over it. This will reflect in the numbers and the datamining, just as it always has. The TFs themselves are unlikely to be made any easier. Those are, after all, the challenges for which the Incarnate system is designed, so difficulty is their point. The Ramiel Arc is NOT one of those TFs. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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See, this is where the cries of "use tactics!" bug me: you aren't doing anything special, just using your powers in obvious ways based on game mechanics. On my Fire/Energy Blaster, I used Rain of Fire to herd the EBs where I wanted them, then burned them to the ground. Honoree killed me a couple times, but the first time was because my timing with RoF was off.|
Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko
No trip mines, shes energy secondary. But i had leadership, flight and medecine power pools.
Tactics helped enough so i could slot my powers with 1acc 3dmg 2rech (aside full auto which only had 3dmg 3rech, always used that with build up so no point in the acc). Trapdoor was easy as pie, popped three lucks and hovered out of melee range, as he made images i shot em, didn't have to move much thanks to boost range. And just killed him, he didn't move out of ignite, which helped loads  On the rikti mission, i sniped captain first, and stayed in air outside melee range, hit me with curse the first time so i lost end, dropped and died. second time i used some lucks and enrages and it went better. Honoree was tougher, but he didn't like ignite for some reason, so i dropped it ontop of myself and when he got close he ran away from me, which gave me ample time to shoot him in the back. Only had 2 lucks up at once, and healed with aid self when needed. Minotaur in last mission was easiest, i just kited him around, then he gave up and fled and i shot him in the back. |
In years past I have played with people who didn't know what they were doing, such as Tanks who didn't turn on their toggles, but those instances are few and far between, so I assume most players at this stage in the game are at least using Inspirations and making decent use of their powers. Maybe they aren't perfect in their gameplay but there are really limited ways you can employ the tools you have at hand and calling them "tactics" diminishes the word.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Tomatoes...Tomahtoes.....|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
If by "solo it" you mean "charge in and fight both the Honoree and Holtz at once while the portals spew Rikti at you," then yes, I would agree. You need good defenses to accomplish that.
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Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Yes it is just a game, that is understood, but none the less this is still a large part of your characters advancement and should not be easily obtained.
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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
And thankfully, this isn't that type of game. You are welcome to your opinion about Ramiel's arc being somehow massively important etc, but tbh, as far as I'm concerned, the entire game isn't massively important. It's awesome fun and all, but over the years I've been subbing, i've happily come to realise that it's just a game. I used to get all worked up over badges until i saw the humor in the sentence 'I collect imaginary badges'., for example.
CoH is a game that I pay for. More power to you if you want to view with pride acheiving difficult targets within it, but other people have other ideas of what is worthy of admiration etc. I can already skip the Honoree mission, and i agree with you about its current difficulty being pretty easy compared to stuff like LR or GW. I fully expect my emp defender to beat it with a Shivan. But if I can't be arsed on the day, and I auto-complete, it won't be the end of the world. And I won't enjoy the content I open after that any less. Eco. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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That's the thing with Honoree. I have four level 50 characters: 3 Blasters and a Brute. So far I've taken 2 Blasters and the Brute through these missions and the primary thing about Honoree is simple: if he hits me twice in a row, I'm dead. If I can keep that from happening, then he loses. So I pop 3 oranges and 2 purples and use my powers to their best effectiveness. So long as I can use a green after he hits me, I'm fine. And that right there is the sum total of the strategy for Honoree. By the time my Dual Blades/Willpower Scrapper gets to that mission, he's going to be able to just waltz in there and wail away until everyone is dead. In his mid 30s he's practically there already, as I'm using my 50s to finance his IO sets.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
What I actually hope they realize is that they are effectively building encounters balanced for inspirations rather than for player characters. It reminds me quite a bit of Diablo. The "strategy" is knowing how to micromanage your potion bar. These new missions do involve a little bit of extra thinking, but elite bosses and especially AVs are still not very engaging opponents when the strategy (for squishies in particular) is basically "eat a bunch of potions/inspirations, without having specifically selected you are going to die in a few hits." I'd much rather weaker inspirations and more reasonable bosses than this mess we've ended up with.
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What I'd love to see is alternate ways to complete missions. Since its inception, the game has basically boiled down to: can you survive long enough to out-damage your opponent's regen? there have been some hints towards this mechanic in recently added missions, but it would be cool for my uber-healing Defender who can't hurt a fly to be able to avoid Honoree altogether by being able to overload the Rikti portals so the explosion brings the cave down on his head. It shouldn't be as easy as merely clicking a glowie, but it also shouldn't have to fall back on your DPS.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
i dont mind tricky tfs l;ike apex and/or riechmans or even tin mage.
what i dont like it that they might be forgetting to scale backj enough so real like pugs can have a better chance then they do now.
yes i can get a buncha people toegether to kill the tf but thats not gonna happen everytime. but if i dont win at it anytime but that.why do it?
just remember its still gotta be for pugs first..elites 2nd
I've tried this on my bot/traps MM (solo'ed with all 3 portals, and both AVs set for AVs, was very fun) and on my kat/regen (same deal, just with Ebs instead) and i loved it. Didnt have to use much, if any inspirations for either build, and i'll be running my SS/invuln through it here shortly (then working on my squishy.. prolly do my warshade next..)
I'm loving the mechanics, and the not so tank and spank aspect of them. You can tank and spank, but its not nearly as effective as 'kill the clones first' or 'down the portals from range'
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Hmmm... two people reporting that now. I hope he hasn't been stealth nerfed.
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Originally Posted by Rad_Avenger
Really? I walked up and point-blank shot him in the face with Fire Blasts until he died. Fire/Cold is good but its not that good.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I haven't seen any encounters balanced that way--there's no qualitative difference between the different sizes of inspirations, after all. You just need more of the small ones to get the same effect. I've never needed more than a tray of the small ones for any single task, though it's certainly convenient to have bigger ones--fewer clicks, fewer restocks, and the option to pack a little more variety.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The thing that bugs me most about inspirations isn't really that the game is balanced around them, but rather that certain encounters seem to be balanced around medium or large inspirations which have no good way of being acquired.
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That said, there is a perfectly reliable way to stock up on medium inspirations--Kora fruit. Kora missions are repeatable, and one mission can provide a dozen or more medium inspirations. Some missions provide a variety (which can be converted to the type you want), and some offer a single type (allowing you to keep a more literal "farm" mission to restock that type more quickly).
The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.
My Bots/Traps MM took down Trapdoor while utterly ignoring his bifurbications, but she's an AV-soloer, so it's probably not a fair anecdote.
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Cold has -regen. Thats why you were able to whack him so quickly
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Originally Posted by Rad_Avenger
Really? I walked up and point-blank shot him in the face with Fire Blasts until he died. Fire/Cold is good but its not that good.
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Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Agreed. I enjoyed Trapdoor and Protean (although Trapdoor might be a little too easy to mez |
Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
That's why I like Trapdoor (and Protean for all that, like Sam, I hate him very, very much) as a direction I hope they're heading in. I'd rather see EBs have unique abilities you have to figure out and adapt your tactics for, than uber-damaging bags of HP. Now they just need to cut these new EBs damage down to reasonable levels so it is feasible for those of us without twitchy reflexes to fight them without going into god-mode.
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) because they were something different to the standard encounter. I think we need more bosses like this: ones with interesting powers that you need to find ways around, and especially ones that give the meleers a bit of bother since they're usually the ones that have an easier time of EB fights. Okay, it doesn't take a genius to figure out to stay out of the way of Protean once that warning comes up, but I had a ball Ninja-running around that room with my brute and tagging him whenever I could. Honoree (from the POV of my dom, at least) was basically just an unmezzable, unknockbackable jerk who hits like a freight train. To beat him, you basically need to have (or get through insps) enough defense so he can't hit you and then beat him down. And I don't find that fun. Honestly, I have more fun with the various PToD'd signature characters.
I don't think I've met Protean. Who is he and which arc is he in?
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Redside he is in Leonard's arc, Leonard is the contact you get right after Dean MacAllister. It deals with clones (dopplegangers) and Protean and the player get wrapped up in owning a secret high tech cloning factory together.
Protean is the worst business partner ever.
I really enjoyed those arcs. I got beaten by Protean twice and then I realized what I was doing wrong.
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
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It's been a non-issue from my experience since launch day of Issue 19. Haven't had a failed TF with either of the new ones yet, pickup group or otherwise.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
That is why I said what I said about datamining. The only way the Devs will ever make missions easier if a significant portion of the playerbase keeps failing it. And by significant, I mean most, not a few vocal people who can't adjust. They didn't get the ITF nerfed. Their pleas here will also go unheeded. And a month from now this will be a non-issue.
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Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
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I failed my first ATF on a PuG, but that had more to do with that 2 people on the team weren't alpha boosted yet and people not listening to the teamleader but just running around like headless chickens.|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
It's been a non-issue from my experience since launch day of Issue 19. Haven't had a failed TF with either of the new ones yet, pickup group or otherwise.
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Can't remember the time before that I failed a TF/SF, and haven't failed one of the new ones since either. And I practicly always run PuGs.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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My TF success rate is somewhere around 50%. Usually it's a matter of getting to the final boss and not being able to finish them off (although on some of them, it's because they're so freaking long that people start dropping out before it's over). I'm aware that you l33t types can kill Reichsman with unslotted Brawl and a Rock, but for the average PuG, it seems pretty binary: if you have the right mix of powers, you'll steamroll through, otherwise you're probably out of luck.
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
Can't remember the time before that I failed a TF/SF, and haven't failed one of the new ones since either. And I practicly always run PuGs.
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I'm pretty torn on the new TFs.
Tin Mage is perfect. Director 11 is annoying but not invincible. The last fight isn't crazy, very fun with some interesting foes. The second mission is fantastic, great dialogue and back and forth. A+ for this.
Apex is definitely more tedious. The first mission is slogging through hotspots outside then more inside the sewers, then too many War Walkers. Animating the police drones is nice.
The second mission isn't fun at all and extremely tedious. We managed the first part fairly easily but the second part is where it breaks down; the "Halberd Death Waves" should at least not spawn at the entrance to the outside area. They also seem to zone in on rezzing characters.
Our groups spent a lot of time running around the waves, pulling Battle Maiden, attacking her, then we'd have a few party members die to the Death Waves. We'd rebuff, try again and boom, more deaths to the Halberds. At that point, we'd tried three or four times with each team and decided it wasn't fun/enjoyable so we all went to run ITFs.
If anything, I'd definitely tweak the second mission of Apex a bit (don't spawn death waves at entrance, reduce unresisted damage). Tin Mage is just right.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
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I've heard of people failing the new TFs, but they all had one thing in common...multiple people on the team who didn't have a boost slotted.
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
It's been a non-issue from my experience since launch day of Issue 19. Haven't had a failed TF with either of the new ones yet, pickup group or otherwise.
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The BrandX Collection
I know it is hard to get people to unanimously agree about anything in a forum, but I don't see the big deal in the difficulty settings actually doing as it implies? Many have said this new stuff is easy and many have said it is hard. No one is wrong, cause everyones experiences differ. Some like a huge challenge and others want it to be a bit simpler....to each their own. Why can't the difficulty be set to fairly easy or to seriously tough? Then everyone is happy? I personally like a challenge and am willing to keep at something for awhile to finish it....at least until I have had enough, then I may like to lower the difficulty and move on.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.