A plee to the developers
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-12-05 18:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
To be honest i enjoy the fight with Battle Maiden as it is. i fought her using my Hovering Dark/Ice Defender and my Combat Jumping Widow without too many issues once i got used to dodging the Nanosworddeathpatch thingies. i keep on planning to run it with more alts, but my only other Incarnate at this point is my Controller who still needs to be respecced. Soon.
That said, i can understand that there are many people who would find it too difficult to be fun.
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I did the Apex TF on a late night PUG - we did it quite easily, although we just missed out on the badge to defeat Battle Maiden within 15 minutes.
The awareness and movement needed for the final mission is not too hard once you get the hang of it.
@Golden Girl
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I have a different feeling actually. |
Originally Posted by Neuronia
I'm pretty torn on the new TFs.
Tin Mage is perfect. Director 11 is annoying but not invincible. The last fight isn't crazy, very fun with some interesting foes. The second mission is fantastic, great dialogue and back and forth. A+ for this. Apex is definitely more tedious. The first mission is slogging through hotspots outside then more inside the sewers, then too many War Walkers. Animating the police drones is nice.  The second mission isn't fun at all and extremely tedious. We managed the first part fairly easily but the second part is where it breaks down; the "Halberd Death Waves" should at least not spawn at the entrance to the outside area. They also seem to zone in on rezzing characters. Our groups spent a lot of time running around the waves, pulling Battle Maiden, attacking her, then we'd have a few party members die to the Death Waves. We'd rebuff, try again and boom, more deaths to the Halberds. At that point, we'd tried three or four times with each team and decided it wasn't fun/enjoyable so we all went to run ITFs. If anything, I'd definitely tweak the second mission of Apex a bit (don't spawn death waves at entrance, reduce unresisted damage). Tin Mage is just right. |
The ATF endfight is a great mechanic. You have to pay attention and keep your mind on things.
The TMTF is much more basic and resembling the older TFs: hit AV's untill they keel over. It's far from bad, but not on the same level as ATF imo.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Too...many....War Walkers? There is no such thing as too many War Walkers.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
Apex is definitely more tedious. The first mission is slogging through hotspots outside then more inside the sewers, then too many War Walkers.
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| The second mission isn't fun at all and extremely tedious. We managed the first part fairly easily but the second part is where it breaks down; the "Halberd Death Waves" should at least not spawn at the entrance to the outside area. |
I've only done these new TFs once, with an all-Scrapper team on test server, and they were hella fun. Part of that was that everything is level 54, so you don't have to find seven people willing to crank the difficulty to the point where a full team is actually required rather than redundant. More team content should be like that.
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This quote could apply to every mission/TF/encounter/essay test since the game was released. This quote should be in Bill.Z.Bubba's copy/paste file.|
Originally Posted by JKCarrier
I'm not saying it should be nerfed (I'm not saying it shouldn't, either). But just because you and your friends are breezing through it doesn't mean that everyone else is.
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--NT
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It's rather easy to just jump up and look down to see if there is an aoe effect at the door before using it...
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Or to ask one of your teammates who are below if they don't give a warning first already.|
Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko
It's rather easy to just jump up and look down to see if there is an aoe effect at the door before using it...
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If they create a safe zone everyone will just huddle in there and pull BM over. Ruins the whole point of the mission.
But that's probably elitist talk again ...
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Both missions - Battle Maiden and Director 11 - are inherently biased against Masterminds. But this is also true of the Imperious fight in the ITF, a known issue that has been unchanged for years, so I don't expect anything to change.
I'm well used to developers hating my favourite AT.
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We're already pulling BM anyway, it works to a degree. I mean, the point of the mission is to kill BM as quickly as possible the first time, then kill her as quickly as possible the second time. The waves are a timesink/delay tactic. It's innovative for the game, so kudos for that.|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
Or to ask one of your teammates who are below if they don't give a warning first already.
If they create a safe zone everyone will just huddle in there and pull BM over. Ruins the whole point of the mission. But that's probably elitist talk again ... |
Anyway, it's just a question of getting used to it; like Cathedral of Pain I'll do this for the badges, never do it again then switch back to ITF/LGTF/LRSF/STF and a Tin Mage every now and then for the double shard drop at the end.
If a 15-30 minute strat develops for the new TFs, great. I expect that the mobs being 54s will likely not be an incentive for that sort of thing though.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Sadly yes. Not one mission of this arc should be able to be auto-completed, but they are. IMO that's the only accommodation the devs need to make to the difficulty of this arc and that's too much.
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I'm guessing that the most-dropped mission on the arc would be the Hero 1 mission?
@Golden Girl
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Quote:
Sounds about right.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I'm guessing that the most-dropped mission on the arc would be the Hero 1 mission?
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--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
Quote:
You mean the Holtz/Honoree/Rikti horde thing? I've auto-completed that nine times myself so far. One or two more times to go. I haven't decided whether to actually do the mission with my Ill/Rad or not. She should have no problems with it, but I doubt it's worth the effort, since my level 50s will pretty much be incarnates-in-name-only.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I'm guessing that the most-dropped mission on the arc would be the Hero 1 mission?
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Yes, you have to kill her as quickly as possible while dodging the nanite patches. That's different from killing her as fast as possible from a safe spot. Once you get the hang of it isn't all that hard.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
We're already pulling BM anyway, it works to a degree. I mean, the point of the mission is to kill BM as quickly as possible the first time, then kill her as quickly as possible the second time. The waves are a timesink/delay tactic. It's innovative for the game, so kudos for that.
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Quote:
| Anyway, it's just a question of getting used to it; like Cathedral of Pain I'll do this for the badges, never do it again then switch back to ITF/LGTF/LRSF/STF and a Tin Mage every now and then for the double shard drop at the end. |
Quote:
| If a 15-30 minute strat develops for the new TFs, great. I expect that the mobs being 54s will likely not be an incentive for that sort of thing though. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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The only mission I skip is the first one. It's a nice gimmick, but not that interesting after the first few times. Although herding the map and then seeing them all melt away in seconds from RoF was fun. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I'm guessing that the most-dropped mission on the arc would be the Hero 1 mission?
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Don't waste a Mission Complete on that one. You're not required to fight the Time Echoes. You can just head straight to Ramiel, click on him, and you're done.
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
The only mission I skip is the first one. It's a nice gimmick, but not that interesting after the first few times.
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That's what I've been doing since my second time through.
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Originally Posted by JKCarrier
Don't waste a Mission Complete on that one. You're not required to fight the Time Echoes. You can just head straight to Ramiel, click on him, and you're done.
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Originally Posted by JKCarrier
Don't waste a Mission Complete on that one. You're not required to fight the Time Echoes. You can just head straight to Ramiel, click on him, and you're done.
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
I have to disagree on the Mender's arc. You need to be able to switch the EBs to bosses if you choose so. This would make it easier to solo with low damage low hit point toons such as defenders. Yes using tactics is first and foremost, but all the tactics in the world don't mean a thing if you can't dish out or take damage and the "get a team" argument doesn't always work due to RL and such. Not only do character skills vary, but so do player skills; just allow the difficulty settings to apply to the arc, that's not unreasonable.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
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The difficulty settings do apply to the arc. Elite bosses (and AVs) don't downgrade to ordinary bosses, outside of the Mission Architect. It would be nice if that was one of the difficulty options though.
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Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
...just allow the difficulty settings to apply to the arc, that's not unreasonable.
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That's what I meant, allow the EBs to be bosses for squisher toons
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Originally Posted by Mirai
The difficulty settings do apply to the arc. Elite bosses (and AVs) don't downgrade to ordinary bosses, outside of the Mission Architect. It would be nice if that was one of the difficulty options though.
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Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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They need to have a MM set with flying pets...
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Both missions - Battle Maiden and Director 11 - are inherently biased against Masterminds. But this is also true of the Imperious fight in the ITF, a known issue that has been unchanged for years, so I don't expect anything to change.
I'm well used to developers hating my favourite AT. |
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
Quote:
I am so sick of hearing that ridiculous argument. Yes, it is an MMO. Now, please, tell me where it is written that one MUST be forced to team by the simple virtue of this being an MMO. If you choose to do the semantics argument of "but..but...MMO stands for...," I will know you have nothing of actual substance to contribute to the discussion and will therefore ignore you accordingly.|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
Your argument falls flat at the bolded part. I don't care how you talk around it but this IS a MMO. A game designed to be played with multiple people. Making teaming mandatory for some tasks is not something that should be shunned.
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Yes, I understand how MMO's work. But, honestly, making content available for the solo-player, even if it is harder to do, is not a bad thing. We already have TFs, SFs, Raids, and Trials that require teams. Why is it so wrong to allow a player who prefers to solo the ability to get their Alpha slot unlocked without having to resort to playing in a way they don't like?
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
It seems to me that there are basically two overarching questions here:
1) Is the new content too hard to solo?
2) Should we be "forced" to team if we cannot solo?
There are variations on these themes, such as whether IOs are now actually "mandatory" to have the power to solo.
I like to team. I solo when I must, and some content is tough to very tough to impossible for some of my heroes to solo, but such is life in general. I like the variety. I like figuring out how a PUG with its random mix of powers can solve problems, like Nemesis snipers or pulling Ghost Widow. Sometimes the team does not work out, but most often, we figure out a way to do things. I enjoy solving the same sorts of problems with my different heroes. There are some challenges I cannot easily surmount with some of my heroes, which is interesting to me.
For myself, what is really still lacking in this game are mechanics to make teaming speedier. This is not "Nobody ever invites me" or "I can't get a team;" it can be done, but it could be faster and easier to do it. The mechanics, such as a "Team looking for more" flag and the like, have been discussed in great detail, so I will not rehash it here. If you could pretty much get on a team when you wanted to, or "needed" to, a lot of problems would not be problems.
At least for me, the Epic Fails I have run into upon occasion keep the game a challenge. I have still not figured out why some teams I have been on kicked Reichman's Nazi heinie very efficiently, and on other teams, we never could beat him down after over an hour of whaling away on him. Some times the TF fails. Oh Well.
I am not fast nor flashy. I am three months shy of being in the game 6 years. I have 10 lvl 50s and a few in the high 40s. Some weeks I can play a good deal, some weeks only a few hours. None of my heroes is "purpled out," but I am an excellent team player and I communicate pretty well. I still enjoy the game.
I also died multiple times taking out Holtz and the Honoree solo, but I figured it out. I got chopped by the Minotaur when I got careless, but I did a field rez, popping Break-Free, Defense, Respite, Breather and smoked him right back. For me, that was fun. It would have caused other folks to have an aneurysm. And due to Patrol XP, I had no debt when I logged back in, which certainly is not how it was Back in the Day. Debt is not a big deal any longer.
I like the challenges and tough missions. I just wish it did not take so long to get a team together.
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I'm not saying it should be nerfed (I'm not saying it shouldn't, either). But just because you and your friends are breezing through it doesn't mean that everyone else is.
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