A plee to the developers
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-12-05 18:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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It is already skippable.|
Originally Posted by Andy86
Well the arc maybe tricky for some charcter builds, I've run it with blasters and scrappers (none of them with more than the standered invention enhancements) and while the honoree was tough, i managed to whittle him down without being ko'ed. He's certainly not the hardest fight i've had in the game.
I can understand controllers and defenders might be having trouble, but i have seen posts where people soloed with those archtypes, so its obviously not impossible. It is a bit harder than your standard missions but this game doesn't have a high difficutly curve and it's nice to have something of a challenge. If itis a huge problem for some, maybe make it skipable but add in an incentive such as some incarnate shards or salvage for completing it (nothing major just a small carrot), in addition to just how cool the missions ar already  . |
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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I agree with the OP, if anything they should make them harder. I've heard in beta that these new TF's were hard, but yeah not really. The first time running Tin Mage and Apex took a combined time of under an hour to complete.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Time Taken=!Difficulty|
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
I agree with the OP, if anything they should make them harder. I've heard in beta that these new TF's were hard, but yeah not really. The first time running Tin Mage and Apex took a combined time of under an hour to complete.
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Would you say the SSTFs are 'harder' than any others? Or just, y'know...time consuming and mind numbingly dull?
Why do people treat time taken like a bad thing all the time?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Fine, I completed both Tin Mage and Apex and didn't die on either of them, they're not hard. Happy?
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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If by "solo it" you mean "charge in and fight both the Honoree and Holtz at once while the portals spew Rikti at you," then yes, I would agree. You need good defenses to accomplish that.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
She does make mention that you SHOULD make a team to take him down, its not required that you make a team but unless you're IO'd to the gills with defense and a lot of dps it is highly unlikely that you will be able to solo it.
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Fortunately for everyone else, both the Honoree and Holtz can be pulled individually. If they couldn't be, there might be cause for complaint, since a dual EB spawn, one with high S/L resist (my bane) and the other with that stupid debuff of cheating is just too much for most characters.
Aren't all these missions autocompleteable anyway? Unlike, you know, the final missions of the patron arcs?
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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It does scale. I don't understand your point. The mission obeys your team size and difficulty slider options. On base difficulty or lower (1 player/even con/No AVs) it is soloable by all character combinations. What do you mean by scaling?
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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
It's not difficult to solo if you take a shivan and a gleemail tray full of med or large inspirs - i think thats how i did it in beta.
Its a bit tedious though. Scaling it would behappify everyone, wouldn't it? Eco |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Yep. Been on a lot of teams with all lvl 49 EBs. Cakewalks. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
It does scale. I don't understand your point. The mission obeys your team size and difficulty slider options. On base difficulty or lower (1 player/even con/No AVs) it is soloable by all character combinations. What do you mean by scaling?
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Sadly yes. Not one mission of this arc should be able to be auto-completed, but they are. IMO that's the only accommodation the devs need to make to the difficulty of this arc and that's too much.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Aren't all these missions autocompleteable anyway? Unlike, you know, the final missions of the patron arcs?
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Well, I could see the so called "Pure Healer" with one attack, the Medicine pool, etc. being unable to complete it solo, perhaps. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
It does scale. I don't understand your point. The mission obeys your team size and difficulty slider options. On base difficulty or lower (1 player/even con/No AVs) it is soloable by all character combinations.
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Other than that...
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I said you could talk all around you wanted. Doesn't change anything.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Yes, forums. Do remember me, please.
Some tasks, yes. Some REWARDS, no. "MMO" as a term gets thrown around willy-nilly, but all that means is a large, persistent world that we all share. The term does not inherently assume that we have to interact with each other, and the decision to FORCE interaction is development prerogative. The decision to EXCLUDE solo play is just the same. I have no problem with TFs and SFs as a general concept, unless they wholly and exclusively gate certain rewards. Right now, I can get everything I could possibly want from the Market, even if it's normally restricted to team-only content. Can't run Hamidon raids? That's OK, I can still buy Hamidon enhancements off the Market. Shards are this mechanic for the Incarnate system, and you'd THINK that solo-friendly, until you remember that it takes a fairly serious arc to unlock this. The Mender Ramiel arc is not a side TF that you can do or skip and which only provides a better, faster route to most rewards. It is the quintessential lock behind which THE ENTIRE INCARNATE SYSTEM resides. This arc will be attempted by absolutely everybody, of that you can be certain, and not everyone will be able to walk right over it. This will reflect in the numbers and the datamining, just as it always has. The TFs themselves are unlikely to be made any easier. Those are, after all, the challenges for which the Incarnate system is designed, so difficulty is their point. The Ramiel Arc is NOT one of those TFs. |
Also Ramiel isn't hard and perfectly soloable.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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/slaps head ruefully |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
It does scale. I don't understand your point. The mission obeys your team size and difficulty slider options. On base difficulty or lower (1 player/even con/No AVs) it is soloable by all character combinations. What do you mean by scaling?
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Heh. Of course it does, yes, you're right. I love the difficulty tech they've given us. I should have said 'scaling it more'.
Playing at -2 or -3, maybe, or 'I don't ever want to meet anything stronger than a Boss level mob'.
I don't want to deprive you of your challenge, i'm just advocating giving more choice to the players.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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All except the Trapdoor mission. For some reason, the first EB fight can't be auto-completed.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Aren't all these missions autocompleteable anyway? Unlike, you know, the final missions of the patron arcs?
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And of course I disagree with EvilGeko. IMO, all these missions should be able to be auto-completed. People will have plenty of opportunity for stuff that can't be auto-completed in the TFs.
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Even that combo can do it if they prepare. A Shivan or HVAS hyped up with Pure Healer buffs (Or even just healed if they were stupid enough to skip Fort) would do it. I haven't tried it, but a Warwolf from the Striga arcs could probably handle it with buffs and heals. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Well, I could see the so called "Pure Healer" with one attack, the Medicine pool, etc. being unable to complete it solo, perhaps.
Other than that... |
Basically, with preparation there's NO CHARACTER that cannot solo this arc. There are some PLAYERS who can't, but that's a skill/dedication/preparedness issue.
Now for the folks (not Bill) who will say, "Well why should we have to do all that?" This arc is a one time deal and it unlocks access to the entire Incarnate system. It's not just the common and uncommon Alpha slot. It's the whole system you're getting access to. It's a meaningful and important part of a character's development. It should be difficult. It should not be something you can drop. It shouldn't even be something you can abandon. I'm hard-pressed to think of any other arc in this game that is so meaningful to your character in terms of potential power and content access.
In just about any other game, if someone stated you should be able to press a button to instantly get credit for a mission of this magnitude, you would be ridiculed.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Even that combo can do it if they prepare. A Shivan or HVAS hyped up with Pure Healer buffs (Or even just healed if they were stupid enough to skip Fort) would do it. I haven't tried it, but a Warwolf from the Striga arcs could probably handle it with buffs and heals.
Basically, with preparation there's NO CHARACTER that cannot solo this arc. There are some PLAYERS who can't, but that's a skill/dedication/preparedness issue. Now for the folks (not Bill) who will say, "Well why should we have to do all that?" This arc is a one time deal and it unlocks access to the entire Incarnate system. It's not just the common and uncommon Alpha slot. It's the whole system you're getting access to. It's a meaningful and important part of a character's development. It should be difficult. It should not be something you can drop. It shouldn't even be something you can abandon. I'm hard-pressed to think of any other arc in this game that is so meaningful to your character in terms of potential power and content access. In just about any other game, if someone stated you should be able to press a button to instantly get credit for a mission of this magnitude, you would be ridiculed. |
And thankfully, this isn't that type of game. You are welcome to your opinion about Ramiel's arc being somehow massively important etc, but tbh, as far as I'm concerned, the entire game isn't massively important. It's awesome fun and all, but over the years I've been subbing, i've happily come to realise that it's just a game. I used to get all worked up over badges until i saw the humor in the sentence 'I collect imaginary badges'., for example.
CoH is a game that I pay for. More power to you if you want to view with pride acheiving difficult targets within it, but other people have other ideas of what is worthy of admiration etc. I can already skip the Honoree mission, and i agree with you about its current difficulty being pretty easy compared to stuff like LR or GW. I fully expect my emp defender to beat it with a Shivan.
But if I can't be arsed on the day, and I auto-complete, it won't be the end of the world. And I won't enjoy the content I open after that any less.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Apex was fun. Tin mage was just ludicrously easy.
The interesting thing is that due to the setup (several powerful mobs rather than many weaker ones) it seems less rewarding than the ITF (where you get a whole lot more shards)
Battle Maiden was fun though.
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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On my AR Blaster, I found it to be quite difficult. I had to ask a friend to help me with Trapdoor. I soloed Honoree/Holz but died 3-4 times and only managed it but summoning a snowman and two warwolves.
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
I said you could talk all around you wanted. Doesn't change anything.
Also Ramiel isn't hard and perfectly soloable. |
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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
And thankfully, this isn't that type of game. You are welcome to your opinion about Ramiel's arc being somehow massively important etc, but tbh, as far as I'm concerned, the entire game isn't massively important. It's awesome fun and all, but over the years I've been subbing, i've happily come to realise that it's just a game. I used to get all worked up over badges until i saw the humor in the sentence 'I collect imaginary badges'., for example.
CoH is a game that I pay for. More power to you if you want to view with pride acheiving difficult targets within it, but other people have other ideas of what is worthy of admiration etc. I can already skip the Honoree mission, and i agree with you about its current difficulty being pretty easy compared to stuff like LR or GW. I fully expect my emp defender to beat it with a Shivan. But if I can't be arsed on the day, and I auto-complete, it won't be the end of the world. And I won't enjoy the content I open after that any less. Eco. |
Blimey, I don';t half sound a bit pompous sometimes.
I think what i'm basically trying to say is: Mender Ramiel's arc was a teeny bit too hard for me, and I wish it was a little easier, but I'll accept the auto-complete help
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Well there goes a perfectly good forum argument down the drain. More pompous, less humble next time please. |
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Blimey, I don';t half sound a bit pompous sometimes.
I think what i'm basically trying to say is: Mender Ramiel's arc was a teeny bit too hard for me, and I wish it was a little easier, but I'll accept the auto-complete help Eco. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I keep thinking there ought to be a better way to "skip" these missions that didn't involve meta-game mechanics. Remember the end of the Vahzilok Plague where you could skip the fight with the Good Doctor if you burned all the bodies? How about the end of Fallout where if you had enough engineering skills, you could cause the Children of the Cathedral's, uh... Cathedral to self-destruct? Could we maybe think of something along those lines?
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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
I think what i'm basically trying to say is: Mender Ramiel's arc was a teeny bit too hard for me, and I wish it was a little easier, but I'll accept the auto-complete help
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I keep thinking there ought to be a better way to "skip" these missions that didn't involve meta-game mechanics. Remember the end of the Vahzilok Plague where you could skip the fight with the Good Doctor if you burned all the bodies? How about the end of Fallout where if you had enough engineering skills, you could cause the Children of the Cathedral's, uh... Cathedral to self-destruct? Could we maybe think of something along those lines?
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- As a proud member of Vanguard, you're given many privileges. One, for those who have proven themselves by taking the fight to the enemy, is access to requisition one of our Vanguard HVAS. These terrifying war machines can really lay down the hurt on the enemy.
- Also, we support the efforts of those scientists in Bloody Bay who have learned how to harness the power of those alien shards to create Shivan Destroyers. Unlike here you might have to come into conflict with villains(heroes), but it's an invaluable tool.
- We've heard that engineers have recently reverse engineered some great Inventions. One in particular is a shield that protects against physical and energy damage. It might be helpful to you in your fight against the enemy.
- Our alerts have keyed us into a Longbow group that is seeking heroes to help secure weaponized abilities in the area known as Warburg. I might seek those out if I were you. We have intel that those weapons and ordnance can turn the tide of many battles.
- Magic may not be your thing, but our sorcerers know of two women who might help you if you're heroically inclined. Stephanie Peebles lives on that criminally blighted isle of Striga. A witch named Katie is seeking help in the upstate town of Croatoa. Helping them out might earn you access to some of their magical abilities for a time.
I can think of more if you want!
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Just my 2 influence here...
I have done both the Apex TF and the Tin Mage TF. My team and I did both back-to-back. We all got the Apex TF (there were 2 in our team that had done the TF before and told us how to get the badges/Mo badge).
Overall the Apex TF was fun/different at the least. A few things even while fighting in the Apex TF I thought (spoilers below):
1.) Wow the final part in the first mission (where you fight all those War Walkers/clockwork in KR) is still boring. Sure maybe the first 2 or so War Walkers is neat but...how many spawned total...6, 8? Ugh, just bags of HP...with one 'trick' that's easily avoidable.
2.) The final mission/fight with Battle Maiden was fun/thrilling. You can tell when the 'blue burn patches of death' are coming so they are relatively easy to navigate around. However, what I didn't like was when BM retreats....she's gone for, what seems to be, a good 10-15 minutes. I was getting bored waiting around for her to come back.
On the plus side, she didn't come back with full health so that was nice to see.
The Tin Mage TF, again, was pretty fun but still had some thoughts about it (again spoilers below):
1.) Again with all the War Walkers...bags of HP...tons of clockwork ambushes....not sure what exactly sets them off but we had like 10, it seemed, ambushes. It wasn't a problem because we had like 3 Tankers and 1 Brute on our team...a few of us squishies died but no team wipes or anything.
2.) Fighting the Malta AV and the prox. mines...yeah....that was extremely annoying. Lots of deaths here (mainly from squishies). The only way we finally beat the Malta AV was by standing near the entrance to the warehouse where mines don't spawn and beating him down. The AV wouldn't stay/come towards us either...he always stood where mines spawned (guessing that's by design).
3.) Last mission...again with the big bag of HPs....I mean War Walkers...Fighting Neuron/Bobcat is/was okay but...to have 2 WWs spawn...ugh... Both new TFs seem to make you have more than 1 'tanker'....which is neither here nor there I guess.
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
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You'll have to cry me a river before I start caring for loners, anti-socials, and shy folks who can't play with other people because of their personal hangups. The game's simplistic enough as it is without the devs bending over backwards more than they already do for people like you.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Please, developers, hear my cries and make the new TFs and Mender Ramiel's Arcs much easier. I understand you don't want to alienate your hardcore players, but for once please do not relegate me to getting help for the good stuff. Make just a few of the really cool things available to me without having to meta-game, power-build and get a team. I realise you can already get Incarnate Shards while solo, and I applaud you for that, but please make the unlock more solo-friendly, too.
Yeah, that was easier to compose than I thought. |
I think any data-mining the devs do will show that they've got the balance pretty much correct - the 2 new TFs are becoming easier now that more and more players have done them and now know the right things to do.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Too often now in the forums I see people debate what is hard or what isn't......I think people are losing sight of something....
The whole IO and Invention thing is supposed to be "optional".....but is it really? For some of the newer content?
So, is all the content being added do-able with SO's only?? If so, great! Keeping in mind you can set your difficulty for -1/x1 or to +4/x8. That alone should cover the realm....can anyone do -1/x1, cause they should be able too. And those who want more challenge, or have sets up to their eyeballs, can increase their difficulty to a challenging level.
So, is it true that at -1/x1 with SO's only, anyone can do just about anything? If not, then it would seem IO's are not really optional perhaps?
And anyone complaining that anything is too easy, is just blowing smoke! Play at +4/x8 and tell me it is too easy? And if it truely is, get rid of your sets and see how it works? lol
Anyways, my point to this rambling is this, yes, I think some things are being made in this game with an "a good IO'd toon can do it" attitude, and they said they would not do that. Didn't they?? I have a few 50's I expect to do this stuff with, with no trouble...yes, they have sets....but my old elec/elec blaster with just SO's, from what I have read anyways, will not do too well!
I personally think everyone should be able to find a difficulty setting they are happy with and succeed in this game, weather they want it easier, or harder. And if it is still too easy for some, or too hard for some, then something needs to be looked at. Otherwise, why is there a difficulty setting at all. In my opinion, it should work like this, ANYONE should able to do anything at -1/x1 (tho it may get boring quick), and +4/x8 should be near impossible for almost anyone. That is how the range of difficulty should go........IMO
P.S. Preatoria not having a fateweaver/field analysts is a load of fudge!!! So many said it was too hard or too easy, but we had no way to adjust it for our own tastes!
Soloed the arc on an Illu/Kin/Primal controller, with AV's, set to +1. Didn't have an issue.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."