A plee to the developers
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-12-05 18:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
And people wonder why people farm? Lol
Gotta get loot for those shineys, so I can play the end-game stuff.
So the io's are optional argument is over! They are not. 
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Well, they are if the end-game is optional.
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Originally Posted by Lascher
And people wonder why people farm? Lol
Gotta get loot for those shineys, so I can play the end-game stuff. So the io's are optional argument is over! They are not. |
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You don't have to farm for them at all or even put any extra effort beyond playing in a team.|
Originally Posted by Lascher
And people wonder why people farm? Lol
Gotta get loot for those shineys, so I can play the end-game stuff. So the io's are optional argument is over! They are not. |
I've never farmed a thing in this game and all of my toons have pretty decent IOs and IO sets, and they all got them from the inf they made from TFs and teams.
End-game content is optional but if you chose the option to actually play it, then don't be surprised that you have to actually put some effort into it. Everything good will cost you, and it's not always going to be just money.
can you do the new arc and tfs on SOs? yes.
is it easier with IOs? definitely.
does that make it balanced? yes.
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You are agreeing with me then? Io's are now a must have to be competitive in the end-game. And while of course you don't have to get them, you will be gimping yourself terribly without them. (before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am not whining....I have a few toons than can cake walk almost anything in the game...so I am not saying it is too hard....I just can see where people are coming from...I have toons with just SO's too, and frankly, they suck compared to my toons with sets)|
Originally Posted by Crimson Vanquisher
You don't have to farm for them at all or even put any extra effort beyond playing in a team.
I've never farmed a thing in this game and all of my toons have pretty decent IOs and IO sets, and they all got them from the inf they made from TFs and teams. End-game content is optional but if you chose the option to actually play it, then don't be surprised that you have to actually put some effort into it. Everything good will cost you, and it's not always going to be just money. |
Then I can see why some people want certain things made easier. The OP obviously has little trouble getting through content, but.....others who have no interest in the supposed optional invention system may find things quite hard.
So in leaving this thread, I will have to agree with what ZombieMan pointed out....the devs will datamine and make the nessassary adjustments to difficulty. The game has to remain fun for the masses, not to hard or to easy....they have to find the middle ground. Tho again, If people are finding the alpha unlock arc way too hard, even on -1/x1, then something isn't right. The people that want more of a challenge can up the difficulty as much as they want, but on -1/x1, it should not be that hard. (thi maybe more boring....but to each their own)
Jmo
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One thing to keep in mind though is that the merit/time rewards are higher. Both TFs take about an hour and award 40 merits. For comparison the "official" reward rate for the old TFs is 20 merits an hour (although obviously people who specialize in speed running can get quite a bit higher).
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Originally Posted by Arilou
The interesting thing is that due to the setup (several powerful mobs rather than many weaker ones) it seems less rewarding than the ITF (where you get a whole lot more shards)
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This.|
Originally Posted by Organica
You can solo Ramiel's arc on a good DPS character easily, or you can solo it on a not-so-good DPS character with just a little strategy, or you can duo it with the help of just one other person. We're talking about the arc that decides whether you are worthy of becoming an incarnate or not -- as far as I'm concerned, if you can't figure out a way to get through this arc, then maybe you don't deserve to be an incarnate. ^_^ If anything in the game deserves to be slightly harder than average, this arc does. And it's still not that hard...
So yeah, I'd be very disappointed if they made it easier. And I agree with the difference between "thrilling" and "hard". |
I've ran through the arc several times now on different toons on several different difficulties with all SO'd toons and I still don't see the hard part. Heck each time on the honoree mish I popped 3 purples and ran right into the final room to take out the portals then the rikti spawns and finally the eb's. Guess I'm just not seeing something.
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
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IO's are optional for all normal content. Sure, an IO'd character will be stronger than one with just SO's, but it's like that by design. The only thing I wouldn't consider optional is a slotted alpha slot for the new TF's, because fighting at -8 just isn't fun.
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Originally Posted by Lascher
So the io's are optional argument is over! They are not.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Originally Posted by Lascher
And people wonder why people farm? Lol
Gotta get loot for those shineys, so I can play the end-game stuff. So the io's are optional argument is over! They are not. |
I soloed the arc on a blaster with only SOs. (AR/EN)
Had no trouble at all. Hadn't even respecced her to use inherent fitness yet.
There is a little 4x5 tray full of inspirations which actually help if you run into a snag.
And there are tactics that can be used (god forbid!).
I like it when i have to think on how to finish a mission. Instead of just randomly button mashing and then whine that it's too hard. Why not see it as a challenge and a way to become a better player?
I do the latter, and when i do win, i get all the more sense of accomplishment from it. Rather than going to contact and press autocomplete.
It's not like being defeated is having any serious repercussions, you get a little debt (empasis on little) and you have to spend a minute getting back to mission. Heck there's even vendors selling inspirations in the hospitals now.
What tactics did you use? Trip mines, snipe, run around the corner to break LoS, pop inspirations for protection, click Build Up then fire full throttle as the EB rounds the corner?
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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No trip mines, shes energy secondary. But i had leadership, flight and medecine power pools.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
What tactics did you use? Trip mines, snipe, run around the corner to break LoS, pop inspirations for protection, click Build Up then fire full throttle as the EB rounds the corner?
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Tactics helped enough so i could slot my powers with 1acc 3dmg 2rech (aside full auto which only had 3dmg 3rech, always used that with build up so no point in the acc).
Trapdoor was easy as pie, popped three lucks and hovered out of melee range, as he made images i shot em, didn't have to move much thanks to boost range. And just killed him, he didn't move out of ignite, which helped loads
On the rikti mission, i sniped captain first, and stayed in air outside melee range, hit me with curse the first time so i lost end, dropped and died. second time i used some lucks and enrages and it went better.
Honoree was tougher, but he didn't like ignite for some reason, so i dropped it ontop of myself and when he got close he ran away from me, which gave me ample time to shoot him in the back. Only had 2 lucks up at once, and healed with aid self when needed.
Minotaur in last mission was easiest, i just kited him around, then he gave up and fled and i shot him in the back.
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As I have explained on multiple occasions, the Ramiel arc, and the new TFs are not made significantly more difficult by upping the difficulty. It just changes the DPS and mitigation you need to win. People have to understand this as we move forward. We're moving away from this tank and spank BS. You might see encounters someday where playing it on -1/x1 will lead to insta-fail if you don't handle the encounter properly. |
Originally Posted by Lascher
So in leaving this thread, I will have to agree with what ZombieMan pointed out....the devs will datamine and make the nessassary adjustments to difficulty. The game has to remain fun for the masses, not to hard or to easy....they have to find the middle ground. Tho again, If people are finding the alpha unlock arc way too hard, even on -1/x1, then something isn't right. The people that want more of a challenge can up the difficulty as much as they want, but on -1/x1, it should not be that hard. (thi maybe more boring....but to each their own)
Jmo |
Trapdoor is a very simplistic version of this. You can have all the IOs in the world, but if you just stand there and try to beat him down, only the top DPS builds in the game might have a chance. Upping the difficulty doesn't change the need to use some strategy in that fight. I greatly hope the devs realize that they have to hold the line here on the endgame content or don't bother.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
As I have explained on multiple occasions, the Ramiel arc, and the new TFs are not made significantly more difficult by upping the difficulty. It just changes the DPS and mitigation you need to win. People have to understand this as we move forward. We're moving away from this tank and spank BS. You might see encounters someday where playing it on -1/x1 will lead to insta-fail if you don't handle the encounter properly.
Trapdoor is a very simplistic version of this. You can have all the IOs in the world, but if you just stand there and try to beat him down, only the top DPS builds in the game might have a chance. Upping the difficulty doesn't change the need to use some strategy in that fight. I greatly hope the devs realize that they have to hold the line here on the endgame content or don't bother. |
What I actually hope they realize is that they are effectively building encounters balanced for inspirations rather than for player characters. It reminds me quite a bit of Diablo. The "strategy" is knowing how to micromanage your potion bar. These new missions do involve a little bit of extra thinking, but elite bosses and especially AVs are still not very engaging opponents when the strategy (for squishies in particular) is basically "eat a bunch of potions/inspirations, without having specifically selected you are going to die in a few hits." I'd much rather weaker inspirations and more reasonable bosses than this mess we've ended up with.
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I actually have to agree with the Geko's general stance here, because this is something I've always been a fan of. Missions, arcs, tasks and encounters which are difficult not simply because they throw bigger numbers at you, requiring even more math, optimization and investment in a built to head-butt your way through, but such encounters which require the player to actually think, be observant of his environment and react to events as they occur.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
As I have explained on multiple occasions, the Ramiel arc, and the new TFs are not made significantly more difficult by upping the difficulty. It just changes the DPS and mitigation you need to win. People have to understand this as we move forward. We're moving away from this tank and spank BS. You might see encounters someday where playing it on -1/x1 will lead to insta-fail if you don't handle the encounter properly.
Trapdoor is a very simplistic version of this. You can have all the IOs in the world, but if you just stand there and try to beat him down, only the top DPS builds in the game might have a chance. Upping the difficulty doesn't change the need to use some strategy in that fight. I greatly hope the devs realize that they have to hold the line here on the endgame content or don't bother. |
I HATE the fight with Protean, just for example... And yet I LOVE the fight with Protean. It feels like I'm actually doing something. It feels like, if I don't watch what he's doing and avoid his Power Syphon, I will lose and get beaten down like a dog, but that if I avoid that one power, I can beat the teeth out of his head. The Syphon is slow enough to give me time to react, but still fast enough to not let me ignore it, and it adds an interesting dynamic to the encounter.
That's the sort of thing I enjoy far more than... Well, Reichsman.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I soloed it on a dark/dark corruptor and died once because I wanted to take the lot on all at the same time (went fine till I ran out of breakfrees and got stunned and pounded into the ground by the Honoree |
Originally Posted by Ironik
On my AR Blaster, I found it to be quite difficult. I had to ask a friend to help me with Trapdoor. I soloed Honoree/Holz but died 3-4 times and only managed it but summoning a snowman and two warwolves.
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.When I came back I pulled the EB's one by one, then took out the portals. I only needed 8 purples and a few blues for that.
If I had felt like whipping out my last Shiv or HVAS I could've taken them all at once.
The corr's built as team support, so her dps is awefull, and I don't have a soft capped or massive recharge build, nor a single purple or pvp enhancement.
My brute just charged in and had a grand old time, intentionally leaving the portals alive, untill I noticed that they had spawned as AV's instead of EB's. Oops. Then I had to call in a friend, so I would do enough damage to finish the mission anytime soon.
I haven't done it with my fire/pain or ice/kin corrs yet, but since they both do a lot more damage than my dark/dark I can't see them having much problems.
My other characters were done on teams with friends and SG mates.
Is it fun? Yes. Can it be challenging? Yes. Is it overly hard? No.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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She comes back once you defeat three of the warrior ambushes. That's as long or as quick as you want it to be |
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
2.) The final mission/fight with Battle Maiden was fun/thrilling. You can tell when the 'blue burn patches of death' are coming so they are relatively easy to navigate around. However, what I didn't like was when BM retreats....she's gone for, what seems to be, a good 10-15 minutes. I was getting bored waiting around for her to come back. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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I agree with this. The main reason I hate EBs in general is because I find Bosses more challenging. A Boss I won't start eating inspirations against unless the fight starts going against me. With an EB, I have no choice but to down 3 purples or get 2 (or 3) shotted (usually before I have time to even react). Makes EB fights be either god-mode or death, which is pretty boring.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
What I actually hope they realize is that they are effectively building encounters balanced for inspirations rather than for player characters. It reminds me quite a bit of Diablo. The "strategy" is knowing how to micromanage your potion bar. These new missions do involve a little bit of extra thinking, but elite bosses and especially AVs are still not very engaging opponents when the strategy (for squishies in particular) is basically "eat a bunch of potions/inspirations, without having specifically selected you are going to die in a few hits." I'd much rather weaker inspirations and more reasonable bosses than this mess we've ended up with.
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That's why I like Trapdoor (and Protean for all that, like Sam, I hate him very, very much) as a direction I hope they're heading in. I'd rather see EBs have unique abilities you have to figure out and adapt your tactics for, than uber-damaging bags of HP. Now they just need to cut these new EBs damage down to reasonable levels so it is feasible for those of us without twitchy reflexes to fight them without going into god-mode.
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
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Nope, not true. As I said earlier, did it with a SO fire/stone granite brute, running what can't even be considered an attack chain as there was more gaps in it than in swiss cheese and I had to use AoEs while ST attacks were recharging. How fast do you think I moved in Granite + Rooted, without teleport, on a room with height variation? Answer : I just stood still and traded blows with the guy until he fell.| Trapdoor is a very simplistic version of this. You can have all the IOs in the world, but if you just stand there and try to beat him down, only the top DPS builds in the game might have a chance. |
I think the regen boost his clones give him isn't permanent ; at some times I could barely break even or he would even regen back some, at other times he would barely regen and his life was dropping fast.
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Inspirations are part of our abilities. Have been since the game launched. Managing your inspiration load is a skill. Look how many people express consternation that the 4-luck strategy didn't work all the time here.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
What I actually hope they realize is that they are effectively building encounters balanced for inspirations rather than for player characters. It reminds me quite a bit of Diablo. The "strategy" is knowing how to micromanage your potion bar. These new missions do involve a little bit of extra thinking, but elite bosses and especially AVs are still not very engaging opponents when the strategy (for squishies in particular) is basically "eat a bunch of potions/inspirations, without having specifically selected you are going to die in a few hits." I'd much rather weaker inspirations and more reasonable bosses than this mess we've ended up with.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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They are. I brought two SO (or white lvl 35 IO) only characters through ramiels arc. Did the ATF with one. Only died once.
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Originally Posted by Lascher
And people wonder why people farm? Lol
Gotta get loot for those shineys, so I can play the end-game stuff. So the io's are optional argument is over! They are not. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Interesting. I'll go back and test this if I can. My Fire/Shield who can stand there with him for hours wasn't able to beat out his regen.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
Nope, not true. As I said earlier, did it with a SO fire/stone granite brute, running what can't even be considered an attack chain as there was more gaps in it than in swiss cheese and I had to use AoEs while ST attacks were recharging. How fast do you think I moved in Granite + Rooted, without teleport, on a room with height variation? Answer : I just stood still and traded blows with the guy until he fell.
I think the regen boost his clones give him isn't permanent ; at some times I could barely break even or he would even regen back some, at other times he would barely regen and his life was dropping fast. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
K, I'm back.....
I know it is hard to get people to unanimously agree about anything in a forum, but I don't see the big deal in the difficulty settings actually doing as it implies? Many have said this new stuff is easy and many have said it is hard. No one is wrong, cause everyones experiences differ. Some like a huge challenge and others want it to be a bit simpler....to each their own. Why can't the difficulty be set to fairly easy or to seriously tough? Then everyone is happy? I personally like a challenge and am willing to keep at something for awhile to finish it....at least until I have had enough, then I may like to lower the difficulty and move on.
How does it hurt anyone if there is an easier setting to get through some things for people who are frustrated or have a toon not equipped to deal with a certain situation? I see no harm in it myself.
That is all I am saying. I am not trying to debate weather the devs should make things harder or easier, just saying let the player set their own pace. This is (sorry to bring it up) just a game, meant for entertainment....let people play it how they wish. What one person does with their game experience should not affect anyone else. I think this covers many other forum topics as well! It's a game, who cares how someone else chooses to play it.
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I remember that at the time the ITF was going live there were those screaming... and I mean *screaming* that it was "too hard."|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think any data-mining the devs do will show that they've got the balance pretty much correct - the 2 new TFs are becoming easier now that more and more players have done them and now know the right things to do.
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It was leaving Test as a TF that took over 2 hours and was failed by a good number of groups.
And yet I predicted that within a week of Live we'd see 45 minute speed ITFs. And it came to pass.
Why? Because once 'the trick' is figured out, it will be taught. And people will learn to use 'the trick'. And once that happens, the mechanical challenge is trivialized.
By the time folks bring their third alt through Rami's arc, they'll know the tricks for defeating Trapdoor and Holtz/Honoree. Whether they learn to pull or use inspirations or temp powers or team mates, they'll learn and they'll do it without dying in a timely manner.
The same for Director 11 and Battle Maiden.
Once groups in Test/Beta figure out how to do it without team wipes, the Devs should know by then it's ready for live because the winning tactics will be taught and spread throughout the player base.
Those who don't like to use 'the trick' and just want to zerge it will determine how much overpowering defense and DPS they need, and will show up with that amount of defense and DPS.
That is why I said what I said about datamining. The only way the Devs will ever make missions easier if a significant portion of the playerbase keeps failing it. And by significant, I mean most, not a few vocal people who can't adjust. They didn't get the ITF nerfed. Their pleas here will also go unheeded. And a month from now this will be a non-issue.
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Nthed.
Having the TFs teach you to play better is awesome.
IOs aren't optional for the endgame stuff. One of my L50 Blasters has all SOs with one HO and his death rate is ridiculous compared to my Blaster who has a mixed bag of IO sets and generic IOs. I'm not even going to bother trying him the on the new missions because my well-equipped Blasters had tremendous difficulty even with help, so it would simply be a waste of time.
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