Great, the incarnate system requires completing a mission arc

I've just finished my 7th Ramiel arc in a row tonight - and I now have the slot open on all servers - the next stage is to fill them

I'm GLAD that there is an arc to unlock the Alpha Slot, for all of the reasons mentioned. Not all of my characters will necessarily become Incarnates, largely because of the time to get the drops once they have, and thus not all of them will be doing that arc anyway.

It's a great arc and has some lovely features:

Great Incarnate back story
Being Uber in the first mission and handing every major AV in the game their backsides in next to no time will never get old
Trapdoor has a nice little twist which makes him challenging but not irritating to defeat
The end mission with all those Rikti Portals and two EBs / AVs again, a challenge, but not an irritation.
In all. WIN!

Frankly in contrast to the OP, I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the arc, and will enjoy on each character that I complete it on. It's definitely preferable to using merits to buy it. Just another grind for a currency of another sort and absolutely no fun at all.

As for having to do stuff to unlock stuff, my only minor gripe is having to do the cape mission before you can do the aura mission. Few of my characters have capes anyway. At level 30, if I haven't done the cape mission, I'd still like the option of doing the aura mission independantly.

The OP is kinda pointless to comment about. If I said what I thought of it, I might get banned.

I am glad there is a unique arc to unlock the incarnate slot. I wish it was something a bit more epic and even a TF but ah well.

It would be cool if they added some other end game wrinkles like a different raid type etc. So far i19 is ok

Don't look at it as having to run the arc to get Incarnated...

Look at it as running the arc so you can run the MOST EPIC MISSION EVER again (mission 1).

(So let's see, last time I killed all the AVs at once in a melee mob. This time, let's see how far away I can snipe them to death!)

I'm glad there's an arc to unlock this. I am glad we can't unlock it with most of the TFs that we could unlock it with in Beta. Of all of them, Hamidon seems on the right scale, but has nothing to do with the lore of the Well. I like the game's mechanics to be linked to the lore - there are ways that can be over done (see lackey syndrome in CoV) but I like the idea, and think this is a reasonable implementation thereof.

I actually liked the arc. I am fairly surprised to see such distaste for it. I thought it was a good read, and when I think that, I mostly don't care how many "go click the contact" missions there are, unless one or more of them are in the outer reaches of some far-flung zone.

One of my best friends in real life plays the game, and he's an incorrigible farmer, someone who never badges unless there's a combat-valuable accolade power involved. He ran the arc carefully the first time through and told me over voice comms that he liked it and felt they put a lot of thought into the story, which took me by surprise.

Am I enthused to need to run the arc on every 50? No. But I don't really mind, either.

I didn't read the whole thread, but I agree that Incarnates should be inherent. (Since I19, I needed to change my standard reply.)

--NT

I prefer having this arc over how it was in Beta because it's new content, focused on the Incarnate system, rather than the same TFs we've done before. I probably won't like it quite so much when it's not new content.

I felt the same about the Midnighter arc, curing the Lost, and Cimerora back in the day. And I think it's good to have those things in the game for people to whom it is new at any given time. But I can also see where the OP's coming from.

You want to kill all the AVs in a single mission map for one part of an intro arc?
Do you think there might be one or two people out there who might take great pleasure in handing LR his $$$ after he's done it to so many, so often? Or just Brawl the Crystal Titan to death, for the sheer of it? Just a little?

That amount of exposition 'through the mission itself' would require an entire TF... to unlock a feature?

You don't like the final fight - but you said you like beating up challenging AV's in the very first sentence?? Reason: Because he fights you and tries to kill you?

This is not the best arc in the game, by any means. And I agree with the prior comment that the zoning is a bit annoying. But hey, is it the worst? Nope. Is it worth kvetching over? Whatever floats your boat. It takes some time, some effort, soloing it is a challenge, it could have been done better, or differently. But I'm done trying to explain to people who are bent on hating it.

"Unlocking" an ability is often about LEARNING about some or all of the following: its history, its traditions, those that have gone before in the field, in addition to DOING. Some examples of this I can think of: Martial Arts, Writing Fiction, Nuclear Physics, music, Politics (ick), cooking... the list is pretty much infinite. To get to the highest levels in these fields, heck, any field, you have to learn in addition to doing.

TLDR: Don't like it? Don't do it. Want the rewards? SUCK IT UP. Perhaps a new way will emerge in the future. Don't hold your breath - or do. It matters little to me.

A bunch of responses in one post.

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Originally Posted by galadiman So perhaps there might be another point of view... The first mission - you get to have ALL of your powers MAXED. Not that anyone would EVER want that. Or that they would want to pound on most of the major AVs in the game with said power. Of course, the fact that it's both a neat mission and a somewhat disappointing mission (when you're that strong, no challenge = much less fun), might encourage people to stop asking for things to be easier? Crazy talk? [Also, maybe people don't want a "kill all the AVs" requirement in that mission... can you blame them, on an arc that is to be repeated somewhat often?]

There is a reason why most players don't play in godmode all the time. There is also a reason why game developers lump godmode in with cheats. The so called "Arch-Villains" pose less of a threat than rikti monkeys. The monkeys can at least damage you. So instead of any meaningful story progression all that is left is a huge freaking waste of time. The ghosts don't even provide any useful dialogue to drive the story forward. The first mission is a complete waste of time, bandwidth, and developer time.

There is also the point that we will NEVER get that much power. Even a level 50 can get hurt by something 30 levels under you. I've had a level 20 minion actually do damage to a level 50 controller (admittedly not much, but still moved my health bar). In this mission I'd have no worries about taking my controller, not activating my defences, get as much aggro as possible, and then going AFK for 20 minutes. I know that I'll still be there and the ghosts will still be trying to scratch even a sliver of health off me.

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Originally Posted by galadiman Dull talking exposition: Hmm. Complex stories need explanation, don't they? Or would you rather every mission be "Go. Hunt. Kil Skulz."? I love me some Bugs Bunny, but Stephen King writes some pretty neat stuff too...

Bugs Bunny cartoons make more sense than some of this drivel.

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Originally Posted by galadiman Trapdoor: So you want new content, but the trapdoor mission is not to your liking? An your reason is that it's so different it's... different?

The Trapdoor mission is hardly new content. It is a council cave map using bits of the last mission of the Hess TF with a bit of some other Striga mission maps. The mission doesn't move the plot at all. Even worse, it gives the player a Faustian Choice. Do you want to help Trapdoor or kill him? It simply doesn't matter as the results are the same: You never see Trapdoor ever again. Great use of a throwaway NPC.

How about the choices when talking to Ramiel in the first mission? No matter what you choose, the response dialogues are pretty much the same.

Worse, the "talks" with Statesman & Recluse end up being pointless bragging of an unseen entity. Big whoop.

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Originally Posted by galadiman The Lady grey mission is... not laid out for you step by step? Seriously? This is not AE. This is, you know, City of Heroes. Did you know exactly what to do the first time you ran the LGTF? Did you know that you don't really have to drop all 4 towers to kill LR the first time you ran the STF?

I've done a grand total of 7 AE arcs (start to finish) in the last year on the live server. Of those, 2 were to get the new Issue 18 alignment badges, 3 were to help a friend, and 2 were Guest Author arcs.

LGTF, why yes, I did know what to do. The mission objectives were clearly stated.

As to the STF, again, the mission objectives were clearly stated, and even if you can defeat Recluse without defeating the towers, none of the teams I've ever done the STF with would be able to succeed doing so. The towers provide clear cause/effect (buffing Recluse) to show that defeating them will be a step toward defeating Recluse.

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Originally Posted by galadiman The final mission is anticlimactic - because it's not a huge long drawn out fight, I assume... would you mind doing that kind of mission with 15 or 20 characters?

No, the story (and I use the term loosely), builds up to you being given the choice between drinking from the well or "taking the long road" to becoming an Incarnate. You are set up to have this literally climatic choice, you face off solo against a EB/AV, and then what? Oh, Nemesis/Silos & Ramiel get into the room ahead of you, have this cut scene explaining that there are many paths to becoming an Incarnate. This is an outright lie, as this is the ONLY method the game now provides.

The last mission is an excellent example of Deus ex Machina, and shows a clear lack of creativity of the author of the mission.

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Originally Posted by galadiman Dude. Your reasoning is completely invalid. You're just seeking things to complain about. You may not like this arc, but I don't think you have expectations that are real in any world.

My reasoning is completely valid. I would expect that if I wrote this exact story for my creative writing for interactive media class that I took last year that I would have got a fairly low grade. Then again, my teacher has been writing/acting for the last 30 years and would have recognized the cliché driven attempt and would have stopped me long before I got to the point of handing it in.

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Originally Posted by galadiman Sounds to me like if you had ever watched "To Kill a Mockingbird," you would have said you didn't like it because there weren't enough explosions, and that Gregory Peck wasn't 'manly' enough. Stupid lawyer.

"To Kill a Mockingbird" is one of my favourite movies. It was an extremely well told movie. The Ramiel arc barely qualifies as an Ed Wood movie in comparison (okay, it is as much of a train wreck as "Plan 9 from Outer Space").

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl There's enough lore on the TFs for the components, but not enough for the actual Incarnates themselves

I don't agree. If there is enough lore for the components, then players have enough lore for unlocking the Alpha Slot. Besides if YOU (or others) feel that there isn't enough story, then you can CHOOSE to do the arc to unlock the Alpha Slot. On the other hand those who wish to CHOOSE to unlock the ability with those other means should have the same rights. That right to choose should be restored to players by the return of the TF/Trial/Raids unlocks.

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl So will most people who beta tested GR - this one one of the major complaints about the original alpha slot unlock

Not most of the players. The people complaining about it numbered less than a quarter of the Beta Testers at that point (7-8 players complained in that thread, if I remember correctly). The majority of players didn't respond at all. Not exactly "most people who beta tested GR".

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Originally Posted by UberGuy I'm glad there's an arc to unlock this. I am glad we can't unlock it with most of the TFs that we could unlock it with in Beta. Of all of them, Hamidon seems on the right scale, but has nothing to do with the lore of the Well. I like the game's mechanics to be linked to the lore - there are ways that can be over done (see lackey syndrome in CoV) but I like the idea, and think this is a reasonable implementation thereof.

If Hamidon has nothing to do with the "lore of the well", then the Incarnate Salvage award should be removed from the raid. If the other tasks have nothing to do with the "lore of the well", then the Incarnate Components rewards should be removed from them as well. However, if they stay, then they have a connection to the lore of the well & the ability to unlock the Alpha Slot should be restored to them.

Again if you, as a player, choose to do the arc for an explanation of the unlock, go right ahead. However you should let me have the same right to choose one of the other methods that were available in testing. It makes zero difference to you how I've unlocked the ability. The arc itself tells us that there are Incarnates, and characters linked to the well without knowing they are linked. So there is an in-game rationale that there should be other methods to unlock the ability.

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Originally Posted by UberGuy Am I enthused to need to run the arc on every 50?

And I have to say that I'm absolutely not happy about having to run this arc on every single 50 I have (and I only have 8 atm).

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters