Great, the incarnate system requires completing a mission arc

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

Err.... I'm sorry, Amerikatt, but that's flat out wrong and offensive to boot.

I'm a roleplayer and have been since I was 12 years old which was... a very long time ago. I never play a character that I can't, in some way, "live" in their mind and see the world though their eyes. I am totally incapable of playing a character "just" because I like a game or a powerset, if I cannot love the character. I RP during missions, I RP on teams, I RP wherever my characters are and whatever they're doing, except in very VERY few instances where I feel the need to go OOC because I feel sick or tired.

Yet I have 5 50s, and 3 more at 47, and more in their 30s, and all of my 50s will be getting their incarnate slot. To be frank, the concept of most of my 50s is that they're already "incarnate" in some way, so for me it's less a matter of going through the same storyline everyone else is ("Hey you drank from the Well too? So did I!") and more tying the powers they are receiving into their personal stories. Because the game and its mechanics do not rule who my characters are.


And I agree with both these posters. No one's twisting what you're saying, though what you're saying may not be what you INTEND to say, that is what it says.

But that's not what the OP said. The OP didn't say they didn't want to do Remiel multiple times, he said he didn't even want to do it once. So repetitiveness was not the expressed issue, the core issue was having gated content that might be locked with content you don't want to do, no matter how many different undesirable options there might be.

Having more ways to unlock it might increase the probability that at least *something* would be desirable to the OP, but that's problematic when the OP admits they didn't actually run the arc in the first place.

If it was me, I would design the portals (all portals) so that their first waves of generated spawns grant XP, then all others don't. So the original intent of their existence is preserved: they are designed to zone in reinforcements you have to fight, unless you can somehow destroy or disable them. If the reinforcements arrive, they are a legitimate threat and legitimately are worth XP - they have to be, because the mission designer intended for the mission and its rewards to be balanced around those initial reinforcements actually existing. But after that, if you deliberately keep them around, their successive waves don't grant XP anymore, so if you are either too slow or a potential farmer, you cannot exploit their generation capability for unlimited rewards.

Actually, that's a different geko. EG crashes business conventions in Ohio using the name "Stanley."


3... 2... 1...

That'd be great, if it can be coded.
(code rant here)

I'm mostly immune to the SCR, but I'm aware it probably would take some new tech.


On the general subject of the Incarnate system, and what its intent is, here's my perspective: some of this I've been saying for a while (going back to I18 beta), some of this I'm expanding or clarifying.

First of all, I've been saying since forever that the Incarnate system is *not* an extension of the Invention system. Its not just a system of super-purples. That isn't a techie-statement. Its a statement of design intent. Purples are meant to be both powerful and rare. If you don't possess one right this second, its because you haven't gotten a rare thing yet. That's sort of what rare means.

But the Incarnate system is intended to be (part of) the end game progression system. That means unlike purples, even though the Incarnate powers are intended to be powerful, they are not explicitly intended to be rare. The Incarnate system is intended to be accessible by everyone (or rather: all level 50 characters).

However, being an end game progression system, it is *not* beholden to the normal difficulty rules. It does not guarantee that all aspects of it are soloable. It does not guarantee that "average" builds will find it accessible. Its intended to be something you both build to access, and then continue to progress in to open up accessibility.

If you can't solo a core non-exempt story arc with a character of any archetype that is at least nominally designed to actually be effective at soloing, even at lowered difficulty, you have a potentially valid complaint about the difficulty of that arc. That's a statement of fact. But that avenue of complaint disappears - or rather is significantly modified - in the end game. Is Remiel soloable? Theoretically yes. But that might be very difficult for some players and some characters. That's WAI. Its intended to be difficult. And if you think its so difficult you're better off dropping the arcs, I'm afraid the problem will be that all future content designed for the end game progression system will very likely be more of the same. Not necessarily designed in the same way, but designed for similar levels of difficulty. Remiel is meant to be hard because he's the gateway to even harder content.

Does that mean the Incarnate system is explicitly meant to be restricted to only some players or only some characters? No. Its simply meant to be harder, and more complex. You're supposed to think, like figuring out the tactical secret to Trapdoor, or working around the brute force thrown at you with the Honoree. In that sense, its designed to appeal to players that want that sort of content, and that might not be everyone. But its only exclusionary by happenstance, as all content is: not everyone will like everything.

However, in this case, the *reason* for an end game system to exist at all is to create different, more complex, more difficult, more advanced content. There's no such thing as the simplified version of it, and there is unlikely to be an end game system alternative for people who want to continue to progress, but don't want the extra difficulty that comes with it. The option for such players is to wait for more *standard* content to arrive either at level 50 or at other levels accessible through exemplar.

So, while I'm conscious of the current practical limits of the size and scale of the system, and in general I'm all in favor of having more content and more options, I don't believe more options will be more easily accessible ones. They will be more variety at equal difficulty, scope, and duration. Some people will consider that enhanced difficulty cheap, repetitive, bogus, counter-productive, a barrier to entry, or alt-unfriendly. While that should be minimized to the best extent possible, there should be no compromising the core aspect of the end game system to distinguish itself from the standard game in complexity and challenge.

I doubt the devs would compromise significantly in those areas, but I'm also here to say that if I think they intend to at some point, I'm going to oppose that move strongly on principle.

I disagree somewhat. I think yuo're correct that the devs should not lower the difficulty of the content for the sake of lowering the difficulty however I do think the devs should think about lowering the difficulty, or more accurately the time required, to get a particular Incarnate bonus at around the time the release the "slot" two or three onward from it (so make the Alpha slot quicker to finish around the time they release the Interface or unnamed 4th slot).

The problem with any sort of progression content is that while it works well for people who progress alongside the content releases you risk locking out newer players (or at least newer characters) if they have to spend to much time running the older content (which often ends up being abandoned). In [insert name of other MMO here] they have a system where they constantly upgrade the gear rewarded from the basic entry level progression content to allow new players/characters to gear up there in preparation for the newer raids.

Now it's possible that the unusual nature of CoX (people having lots of alts, the nature of loot drops etc.) will make this unnecessary and even when we have the Omega (10th) slot people will still want to regularly run ITFs and LGTFs without discriminating against those who lack even an Alpha slot but I really hope this is something the devs are keeping in mind.

squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

I have to agree with this. I don't think it likely that I will have very many characters become Incarnates. I don't have a lot of 50s to start with. I don't consider levelling to 50 a goal for me, so content that STARTS at 50 isn't much of a goal for me either. This is not the same as when the level cap was raised from 40 to 50, I didn't have any 40s at that time either, and never intended to make levelling a character to 40 a goal, either. But some of my characters have made it to 40, and since the system lets them level past that, they have.

Incarnates, though, I consider a different animal. IMHO it's what the Epic Archetypes SHOULD have been. I never figured I would ever level a Kheldian, either. When I got my 50, I went, "That's cool", started a Peacebringer and Warshade and tried them out. When the level to unlock them was lowered to 20, I went, "That's cool, too", because I could see no reason I couldn't have been playing those Kheldians from, well, the first year I was playing this game. They were cool, but not something for me to "do past 50". Especially since the character I used to unlock them was STILL 50, and still had nothing to do...

My first thought was that when you created a Kheldian, it would be like your 50 starting over again at level 1. And that's kind of what the Incarnate system is. Except, instead of levelling, you are doing end game content. And instead of running missions for XP, you are running missions for Incarnate Slots and Components.

I hate to use the "r" word around here, but it's pretty obvious to me that the Incarnate system is raid content. And raid content means some things. It means players that have all reached the end game, and are ready to work together to achieve somewhat different types of rewards. It's not as open or casual friendly as the regular content, but that's okay with me, because you have to get to 50 just to start it. I'd rather just start over with a new SoA or Kheldian (or one of the other ATs, just mentioning the Epics because they're still new) if I just want to fool around.

I do think it's a bit of a shame that the devs put work into content I'll never see, particularly if lots of other folks feel the same way. I will probably try some of the arcs on my 50's just to try and support them in it. But I'd like the devs to do some things for me, too, that maybe some of those other players who want the raid content would think was a waste of time. And I'll feel better about getting some of that if they get their content as well. I don't really want the devs to design the whole game for me.

I don't see them stopping development on the entire rest of the game, which will still follow the current rules for difficulty and accessibility. If they were, all the content developers would be working with Positron on end game, and War Witch would just be in charge of perk packs and veteran rewards. My guess is that *most* content development, at least in the long term, is still going to be non-end game related. The end game will be just a fraction of that.

So I'm reasonable certain that players completely uninterested in the end game system will still get more content to play with that is not connected with it. There are whole level ranges to populate in Praetoria, and likely to be more content connected to that within Paragon, and probably more content and content updates eventually coming to Paragon and Rogue Isles itself.

I KNOW, RIGHT!?

Sorry, couldn't resist. No, I meant that as well. I want to see both end game content, and the low level, exemplarable stuff that you DON'T see in "that other MMO". The fact that Incarnate powers don't exemplar, I think, is intended to keep those two aspects of the game in balance.

And it reflect the logic, really, behind introducing a whole new start area and low level content, concurrent with a whole new end game system. This is an old, mature game with a mature player base, but we are (hopefully) attracting new players as well. Plus providing new "Epic Archetypes"-like experiences for the Veterans.

Well.... everything, absolutely EVERYTHING the devs have put into the game so far as been for "you," being people who aren't interested in rushing to 50, don't need to be 50 to access the content, low-mid level content updates/addition, etc. That's part of what I love about the game!

This is the first of the "end game" content and there will no doubt be more, but I honestly can't bring myself to believe that the devs who've kept this game alive for the last 6 years will be putting ALL their energy into JUST end game content.

Well, actually the arc is rather fun. Especially the first mission where you are god-like in your abilities.

But I do agree that is is a chore to run 6+ level 50s through the same arc over and over again.

God-like?

My only worry there is that people are actually starting to extrapolate Freem to figure out what the rest of the Incarnate system will be like, specifically level shifts.

Depressingly, it turns out at the end of time, I will be able to obliterate archivillains with power blast, stand toe to toe with the crystal titan, laugh at ghost widows's mez, and turn Statesman and Recluse into crash test dummies. I will have the power of the gods at my command and become an unstoppable force to rival the combined might of the greatest entities in all the dimensions. And yet, my flight speed will still suck.

And you will STILL have ham hocks for hands.

I truly lost control when I read that word. Thank you.

The OP should thank you for translating into Rational.

The missions are the content. Capes, auras, Alpha slot, are rewards. I think you're saying you hate having to play the game to get the rewards. In which case your out of luck, you don't get rewards for free.

Plus, The Alpha Slot arc takes all of 20 minutes if you hurry and it can be quite a bit of fun.

Wrong. It is "Let us choose how we become Incarnates."

This, in a nutshell, is my position. The people that are intending to say there should only be one way should realize that not everyone plays or even wants to play like you do.

People have been complaining literally for years about content that has to be repeated to the point it gets stale, yet the developers ignored all that and took the original plan of multiple ways to unlock the Incarnate system and reduced it to a single arc. An arc that some people don't like. It has nothing to do with being able to beat it or not (and I've done it solo and with groups). It has to do with repetition.

List of already annoying/repetitive tasks:
Go to the Hollows to talk to Wincott (heroes)
Go see Perez Park Security Chief (heroes)
Go to the Bloody Bay Rep (heroes/villains)
Cape Missions (everyone)
Aura Missions (everyone)
Go to the Siren's Call Rep (everyone)
Go to Stephanie Peebles (heroes)
Go to the Mission Architect Tour. (heroes/villains)
Go to the University/CDEC (everyone, multiple times if you switch)
Go to the Warburg rep (everyone)
Intro to Ouroboros (everyone)
Intro to Cimerora (everyone)
The Incarnate arc will be there for every single level 50 to do. And we'll have to do it in order to unlock the Incarnate slot.

Every single one of these tasks should have other options to either unlock account wide or have other means to unlock the abilities/content.

The thing I liked about the original way was that there was a choice: Players could do any of the task/strike forces/trials/raids (even using alignment merits) and unlock the slot. It was the player's choice, not a forced arc.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

I don't think I've ever done this arc. I just hop up to the top of the thing in the middle of ouro and grab the explore badge.