Strange tank behavior

Before I start, I want to clearly state that I have never seen this before, and am in no way judging tankers as a whole in this post. I just want some clarification and insight from those who know the AT better than me.

I was on a TF the other day, using my SS/SR brute. At the level we were exemplared to, I was still softcapped, but due to the loss of a couple set bonuses, neither Rage nor Practised Brawler were perma. I made sure to keep inspirations on hand in case I got mezzed in the 3 second window (they're good at sneaking a mez in during a tiny window!) or to offset the -def during a Rage crash.

For most of the TF, I'd wait for the tank to take the alpha in a new room, then hop past the team and start soloing the previously unaggroed mobs on the opposite side of the room. Most of the time I'd clear about 1/4 of the room by myself before meeting the rest of the team as they finished the front of the room.

About halfway through the TF, I noticed the aforementioned odd behavior from the tank. I don't think he was doing it earlier, but I'm not sure. As before, I was hopping past, and working on a separate part of the room. Then, suddenly I was surrounded by enemies who were doing the "I've been taunted" animation. I don't have taunt.

Paying closer attention revealed that the tank was taking the alpha, waiting for me to move in, then following me and taunting a bunch off me before going back to the rest of the team.

Why would a tank do this? I might chalk it up to him "saving" me, except that I had demonstrated that I didn't really need it. Right now, I'm considering writing the player off as either a jerk who was trying to screw over my fury bar, or too insecure to handle the thought of a player who can survive without him help. I don't play tanks, but I can't think of any reason one would benefit by doing this.

So what say you, tank experts? Did he have a good reason for doing that, or did I just find a jerk?

Could be a number of reasons. Next time you take the alphas and get that fury up almost instantly.

Well, I was taking alphas. I was letting him do his thing, then heading to an unaggroed part of the room and pulling them to a corner away from the group. Everyone was doing fine, and I was contributing more than poking away in the group with an empty bar. That's what was so strange: He was reducing my effedtiveness, and I'm pretty sure he was putting himself over the aggro cap, so those critters he left behind to chase my aggro would have been dropped onto the squishies, right?

Agreed, could be lots of things. Some folks really take their tanking job seriously (or perhaps, inflexibly), seriously enough that they try to extend their control over every single mob they see, regardless of the situation. Maybe he had crappy attacks at that level, and not much else to do. Maybe he saw your health drop once, and thought you could use less heat. Maybe he was annoyed. Hard to tell from outside the situation.

If i'm in a TF and a brute/scrap/tank can go off on their own and survive, and make the mish go faster, go for it, IMO...as long as said soloist doesn't expect the team to save them if things go upside-down for them.

Yes, but sometimes that aggro onto the "squishies" brings them fun as sometimes people like a bit of an off fight. Not efficient though. I wouldn't of saw it as my place to tank for a brute or a scrapper. Maybe I might save one because in doing so saves the team. What annoys me is when I am aggro capped and the team is taking a while to take that down, a brute or scrapper aggro caps and brings them back with him almost defeated to the me and the team so then I, lose what I can afford to and pick up what he can't handle, before he dies, otherwise that aggro cap + my aggro cap = too much on the team. Did you die prior to it all? Also its not in a teams best interests to have the token defender working in two different areas so if that was a risk factor then maybe that was why.

Not an expert on Tanks, or TF either, but...I'd probably chalk it up to the tanker being a Zombie Tank (except instead of "Brraaaiiiinnnnnssssss" they say "Pull mobs...pull mobs...pull mobs").

Or perhaps they have a lack of understanding about the necessity of a brute to smash things and get smashed in return to make them more effective?

There's several not-good reasons for him to do that, maybe they prove he's not a great player, but they don't necessarily mean he's a jerk. I can't think of a really GOOD reason for him to do that though.

But...during the task force, did you tell him "OK, you grab this first bunch, while you keep them busy I'll hop to the next bunch"? (not just hashing you there, he should have asked "WTheck are you doing over there?" if he was confused about your plan).

I had died once, in the first or second mission, while still with the team, because someone slipped a mez through the gap in PB, before I realized I needed to keep a Breakfree handy. I never brought aggro to the team - if I was by myself, then I was on my own until the team caught up.

As far as the "token defender" goes, there were four defenders and corrs on the team. One of them regularly came in and threw some buffs and debuffs for me, but the rest stayed together, so I wasn't spreading support thin.

Nobody said anything about it in team chat either, in fact everyone was getting along and chatting amicably, which is why I never said anything. I've been on ITFs and LGTFs where other tanks have outright gloated about stealing the brutes' agggro; I was hoping this guy wasn't doing that.

Like everyone has said there could be a lot of reasons ranging from "doesn't know what they were doing" to "the story can never capture the whole picture of what happened".

Maybe they felt it faster to get everyone surrounding themselves and letting the rest of the team rain down nukes. That was the first thing that sprang to my mind. No-one can know without having been there.

I do have to ask, based on the fact you are asking this question (specific to a situation we weren't in) with no way of us really answering, and on your second last paragraph, did you get into a fight over it?

Why is it strange for the tank to want the team to stay together? So what if you don't get full fury it's not meant to be a perma buff.

Roderick, I've had tanks try to taunt/pull mobs off of my tanks. They get in the habit and just do it when they see a big mob around someone else. Heck, they've kept doing it when I remind them they don't need to pull aggro off of another tank. They said "Oh, habit, sorry," and that was it. I found it annoying (especially if I'm on my Fire/Fire tank or Elec/Elec Brute that want people around them), but that's how it is.

I never do it myself, as I start to recognize my teammates and who can handle what. I only taunt at range if I need to.

Could be he was trying to keep them bunched together for AoEs.

I know when I'm on a tank or brute and I've been 'nominated' as the primary bullet/lightning/flame/etc magnet, I immeadiately go into 'gatherlock' and I must keep as many mobs around me as possible to make aoe's easier and keep team close for support toon's peace of mind. If I have a brute on the team I'll ask if they want to leapfrog to next or take the alpha then I'll taunt off. So I'm still doing my job and they have fun.

As someone who plays tanks frequently, what you describe can be an annoying tactic that ultimately draws out battles that could be ended much quicker. Here are some instances:

1) It's great that you can survive that other mob all by yourself. Your toon is obviously very powerful. However, those 12 baddies you took down would have gone down far quicker were they covered in your team's radiation goop cast on an anchor near the tank, or the PBAoE ally sonic debuff cast on the tank, or the fulcrum shift being cast by the kin. Those baddies also aren't catching any splash damage from the AoEs being sprayed by your blasters.

2) You don't have a taunt, therefore your ability to hold agro is inferior to the tank. You may be able to withstand the agro, but you are bound to have stragglers that take longer to track down and kill with your melee.

Here's how you adjust your strategy to maximize efficiency: Let the tank get agro. Go to your other mob and drag them into the main mob. Let them catch agro from the tank and then go off and get another mob. Feed the killing machine that is the tank-buff-debuff-damage machine. This way after the smoke clears, the room is nearly done and no one moved anywhere (except you), getting more use from stationary buffs and debuffs and keeping agro off the squishies.

You are playing like a soloer on a team. Either adjust your strategies to fit with the advantages of teaming, or simply solo. Brutes are great for that.

If the second mob is close enough I'll sometimes try and combine mobs (especially if the initial one is nearly mopped up) in order to make more effective use of the teams AoE's. Depending on the team it's not always necessary or worthwhile.

If a scrapper or brute doesn't need support I generally don't worry about them. If I see them dipping into the orange or red, then tank-lock takes over and I'll try to take as much aggro as I can get to help them survive. Sometimes my assistance is warranted, some times it's not, but if the dips into orange and red happen often enough it's hard to turn off tank-lock.

The tanker you are describing was probably me. I have a habit of pulling aggro off of anything except Tanks most of the time. I see someone other than me surrounded by enemies, and I have an irresistible urge to taunt them. That said, I would honestly rather see a brute go off on his own and solo mobs than go aggro a mob and pull it to me when I'm likely already near (if not past) the aggro cap, and expect me to somehow pull aggro off him so he can go pull MORE aggro to me. I also forget about Fury/Rage/Whatever it's called, since I never play Brutes.

I am a tank. My job is to get aggro and keep it. I do not need you to "help" me with this task. I am not there to look cool punching things, that's your job. I am there to stop the enemy from punching YOU. If you can truly go off on your own and REALLY solo the mobs with no trouble without screwing the team over with the lost damage, by all means, go for it. But too often, I see Scrappers, Brutes, even Controllers and Dominators run off on their own away from the tank, pulling all kinds of aggro, and then get mad because "You suck at tanking, you're supposed to keep the aggro off of me". And then assume that someone on the team can TP them and rez them, because they used their wakie (or self rez) on the LAST mob they aggroed and faceplanted on, and are too lazy to go to the hospital again.

That said, my main Defender has been known to go off solo away from the team at times. But he can take it. If I die, it's my own fault. And I probably have Soul Transfer anyways. And I don't blame the Tank (assuming there's one on the team) for not pulling aggro off of me from the other end of the map when I do it.

Doesn't sound like strange tank behavior to me. Sounds like strange brute behavior. Why wouldnt you just fight side by side with the tank? You could have turned those breakfrees into reds and added even more damage. Cant brutes eat reds too? Or is it some unwritten law that they need full fury bar all the time to feel all warm and fuzzy?

Teaming means compromise. You dont get full fury, the tank doesnt get everyone punching him, the defender doesnt get to heal everyone, the blaster doesnt get the last shot in, the controller doesnt get to use immob every group, the scrapper crit gets wasted on some minion with 10% health. Its easier when you dont have to work at 100% of your potential the entire mission. Running as a group means less chance for catastrophe, when an unseen boss, unexpected patrol, or even a kheldian crystal show up unannounced because you once had a warshade on the team 3 missions back.

Also depends on the situation. You can easily run into situations where you have a lot of mobs or get over the aggro cap for one player, tank or no. Clumping up a mob in their two different starting points isn't necessarily a bad thing to do, either: no need to make all those mobs run over the maps at a slower pace when you can have people grouping them where they are.

Obviously, no one can really answer this question other than the tank in question.

However, for fun, I'll chime in, and no doubt, reveal a line of thought others have already expressed.

I've played many tanks to 50. Only one brute, who is at 25 right now. If I am the tank, and I see you running off into other areas - I am honestly wondering why you're on the team. If you wanted to be a solo act, go solo. But that thought is based on ignorance. I honestly had no idea until I read through this post that a brute needs to be hammered to be effective. I had thought that the fury bar worked a lot like the blasters defiance bar of old.

In any event, to avoid these problems, it is always best to just come out and explain what you plan to do. There are still a good many of us who are not min/max frankenslotters, have never played a villain(and thus, very ignorant of what your toon can and should do) and simply get into playing a role other than their real world one.
Communication ahead of time is always going to help prevent unrealized and unrealistic expectations.

Like Unwilling Hero and others have mentioned, playing main tank tends to bring on gatherlock. I know I try to get all the aggro on my tanks, it's just what a tank does. If I saw a team mate headed off alone, I usually target a taunt next to them and keep attacking my current group. If nobody dies, I forget about it untill I see somebody go off alone again, and then I taunt next to them again.

So, ya. Likely less of a jerk and more of force of habit in the tank playstyle.