Scirion

1) Tanks, no question. I only play on Virtue, and at the moment, I *think* I have at least 4 at 50, plus another 3 or so "in the works" which sadly, will never be finished. (For the record, the ones I can think of are Shield/DM {50}, Stone/DM {50, and the best Tanker EVAR}, Ice/Elm {50}, Shield/BA {50}, Dark/IM, Fire/IM... And I've deleted more than I can remember for various reasons.) The other 29 characters on Virtue all get played exactly like I play my Tanks. >.>

2) I have far too many "favorites" to come up with just one, so... We'll have to go with a Top 5, in order of most preferred, I guess.

#1 - Earth/Elec Dominator: My only regrets with this character are not waiting a couple days (literally) and rolling it Earth/Dark instead, and (alternatively) not rolling it way sooner. Permanent Volcanic Gasses is so terribly overpowered, I cannot describe it. This is my all-time favorite character, despite being one of my more recent 50's.

#2 - Rad/Fire Blaster: In theory, I could solo the LGTF minus the AV's and Hami by virtue of pure AoE DPS alone, without using inspirations, and more than likely, not dying ever. Those who have played Rad/Fire Blasters know that of which I speak.

#3 - The above mentioned Stone/DM Tank: This character is the most survivable thing I have ever seen in-game, with the exception of Psi damage (I didn't even bother patching that hole, or... Any of them except run speed). I hate to admit it, but the only reason I rolled it was because my Shield/DM Tank wasn't "good enough" (by my somewhat skewed standards) to do an MoSTF. (The acceptable standard being +4/x8, mind you)

#4 - Ice/ElM Tank: Honestly, too many people underestimate Ice Armor... Especially when combined with the added mitigation from the combination of ElM (Lightning Clap) and Mu Mastery (Electrifying Fences). As far as I know, EF is the only AoE Immob available to Tankers that also gives the targets KB protection, thus negating the only downside of Lightning Clap, turning it into an effective mitigation tool.

#5 - Umm.. I honestly can't really pick another one. I love too many of my characters, all for different reasons. So... I'll just randomly throw the "HOW far away was that guy, again?!" Elec/Energy Blaster out there. Nuking mobs from around 400 feet away never got old... Neither did sniping enemies you can't even see.


3) Hmm... None, really. I didn't really play the AT's I disliked. Because I disliked them (I'm looking at you, 'trollers, V/HEAT's)... The only 'troller I really enjoyed playing at all was... Oddly enough, a Troll. No, I don't mean the fantasy sort of troll. I mean the Internet Troll. Gravity/DAff can troll entire teams with ease. 3 spawns up ahead? No worries, you can just Wormhole 2 of them together, drop Black Hole on the third, and Dimension Shift on the two you just Wormhole'd.

In all seriousness though (regarding question 3)... I'd have to say it's a tie between Blasters, Defenders, and possibly Scrapper/Stalkers... Yes, I know. That's 4 AT's. I didn't really like Blasters until I discovered Rad/Fire and got it to 50 and IO's... Then I started the second Blaster (Elec/Energy above). I still don't like the other Blasters I've tried. lol
Defenders, I tried and tried, until I discovered Kinetics/Dark Blast and did the same. I still enjoy playing that character once in a while, as well.

The first Scrapper I really enjoyed (after many many attempts to compare them to Tanks) was MA/Dark Armor, which I still enjoy to this day, despite not really liking Dark Armor. Stalkers.... Well, overall, I still don't really like them, except for Dual Blades/Ice. And that's mostly because I love Ice Armor to death.


Well, crap... I was just starting to get used to the thought of not having CoH to play anymore... *sigh*

Read the Scrapper thread again. Lore pets are *not* typically included. Other iPowers, yes. But not Lore pets.

Actually, that's not entirely true. If I were actually building it, I would have skipped Smite in place of keeping Salt Crystals, 5-slotted the purple set, and put Crushing Impact's in MG, which would put you at 0.1s short of perma-Hasten. Which, if you pick an Alpha with a Recharge component... (We'll say Agility Partial Core, for the sake of this post), puts you at 0.74s short of permanent Volcanic Gasses.

I love Earth Control.

I don't expect to change anyone's opinion about anything. I personally don't care. This is a discussion forum, I gave my opinion on the initial point of the discussion. That being a suggestion to revamp Stone. End of story. I could not care less if you think I'm "right", because there is no "right" in a discussion about something that is 90% opinion. My comment on "too late for that" was entirely regarding my "let's not" comment, so you can stop changing the meaning of what I said, thanks.


Significantly reducing the effectiveness of Granite (which would be a requirement if the other 4 toggles in the set were designed to work with Granite) implies a "nerf" to the post-32 gameplay, regardless of how you want to look at it or sugarcoat it. Being required to run 5 defensive toggles instead of 1 (post-32) to achieve the same level of effectiveness amounts to a "nerf", in my opinion. As for how many people like Stone? I see quite a few Stone tanks, and therefore assume that they like it. Maybe they don't, and I'm the only person that actually enjoys playing it. I don't know, and frankly, I don't care. I enjoy the set, and have fun playing it. That's the line where I stop caring.


To be fair, I read most of the first two pages. And saw several people saying the only thing the set really needs is better mobility. I gave my opinion on the subject in relation to the OP. Nothing more, nothing less. The other posts could be discussing unicorns and rainbows. I'm not replying to them. If I was, I would have quoted them and replied as such.

That said.. I'm not on my "high horse about 'nerfing'". As I said more than once already, the OP started a discussion about a subject, I gave my opinion in relation to the OP. End of story.

No, it means that as far as I am concerned after reading (and re-reading) the OP, pre-32 gameplay does not figure into the equation. Unless I'm seriously misunderstanding the OP (which is certainly a possibility), the post basically said "Rooted is terrible, because it makes you practically immobile" and "Granite is OP, so it should work with the other toggles".

I'm sorry if my paraphrase offends anyone, I'm just trying to sum up an entire post into two sentences, and those were the "main points" I got out of the post. The first point (Rooted), I agree with, to an extent. The second point, I do not. Since Granite doesn't come until 32 (or whatever level it is for Brutes), this makes pre-32 gameplay largely irrelevant for the purposes of the discussion, as described by the OP.

Personally, I wasn't comparing Stone Armor to The Thing. My mistake, on that one. I was going by the semi-logical explanation that if your body is covered in rocks, you'll probably be moving slower. You win that point.

As for balance compared to other sets... Is the set overpowered? Probably, but you pay for it in self debuffs and almost zero mobility. Show me another set that debuffs yourself (at all), and offers survivability anywhere remotely close to Stone Armor, and I will happily admit that Stone Armor needs to change for balance reasons. Go ahead, I'll wait.

The set is a relic, because it's old. And that's not going to change any time soon. However, just because it's old, doesn't mean it needs to change. I'm not moaning about balance. If I was, I would be moaning about Willpower and Regen.


Speaking of reading, try reading my post. The only comparisons I made regarding Stone/Regen was the number of toggles the two sets run (post-32), and the fact that not everyone likes the same playstyle in a set (like Regen). Never once did I compare the attributes of the two sets. Try again.

It's an online game. You can't make everyone happy. I don't like Willpower (arguably one of the most popular armor sets in existance), Super Reflexes, or Fire Armor (if you count the farmers, probably the second most popular armor set in existance). That doesn't mean they need to change.

Show me a set capable of doing so (if they would all spawn at the same time...) without debuffing your own damage, recharge, and mobility into nothingness.


Endurance cost was not covered in the OP, therefore I did not respond to it. I said as much in my response.


I haven't gone to pre-32 talk in a significant manner, and don't intend to. Come back when you read the post you're replying to.



Again, re-read my post. I suggested allowing the use of powers such as SS, at reduced effectiveness. Last time I checked, rocks are really heavy, so you wouldn't be able to run as fast. Does Stealth on Fire Armor make sense? No, not really, but we aren't talking about Stealth on Fire Armor, we're talking about Stone Armor. To that end, I think that idea in particular was a dev-provided reason why Stalkers won't be getting Fire any time soon.

I think just about everyone will agree that Stone Armor is unique in that it relies largely on Granite once it is available. Thus, forcing it to rely on the other toggles in the set in addition to Granite would gut the uniqueness of the set. As far as being "unfun", I already covered that above. One set can't be fun for everyone. I could look up similar terms, if you would rather I not use the term "gut".

First off, after reading my own post again, I'm fairly certain I said it was a terrible comparison, but I couldn't think of a better one at the time. So, in an attempt to come up with a better comparison, I'll go with...

Dark Armor. Dark Regeneration is a critical part of the set. I would go as far as to say the set would suck without it. In effect, what the OP said is "Granite should be less effective so that people don't feel obligated to take it". If we can't have powers that are so powerful that people feel obligated to take them, Dark Regeneration would be somewhere right around the top of that list of powers, along with Rise to the Challenge and Moment of Glory... And Fulcrum Shift (for that matter, pretty much the entire Kinetics set)... And Lightning Rod... Yes, I understand that the OP was making that comment with regards to Granite being exclusive from the other powers. Yes, Granite is unique in that way. However... I don't necessarily see that as being a bad thing.

As far as the rest of the set being crappy... Outside of Granite, Stone Armor offers fairly comparable performance (numbers-wise) to Ice Armor and Willpower. I don't see how this is as terrible as everyone makes it out to be.

To me, it sounds like you're asking for a nerf to post-32 gameplay for the people who like Stone Armor as it is, with no real compensation or necessity for said change.


... What? What Stone Armor are you playing? Not counting pools, I'm running 3 toggles if I need Rooted. That means for 99% of gameplay, I'm running two toggles. The only set I can think of that needs less is Regen. I understand that yes, pre-32, it could be toggle-heavy... If you needlessly run all 5 toggles (before pools) at once. But you don't need to, so I don't really see this as being an issue. Dark Armor is a toggle-heavy set. Stone Armor is not. (In my opinion, of course)

(Minerals is highly situational, and to me, Brimstone is as well. Or maybe I just don't know how many mobs deal Fire/Cold damage... *shrug*)

This one, I will agree with. But, I'm of the opinion that it's a somewhat necessary part of the set, both for balance and concept reasons. You have to sacrifice *something* to gain the ability to (with IO's) be Resistance-capped to all but Psi, and softcapped Defense to all but Psi, and hardcapped MaxHP all at the same time, permanently, with no crash. (Except the MaxHP, unless you have perma-EE). And, I can't really see somebody covered in STONE running around full speed... Thus, speed reduction.

I look at it at being similar to Regen (as a set). Some people may not like a set limiting their mobility. Some may not like a very click-heavy set that is also typically less survivable than any other set. Personally, I like both (to a degree), but I understand that either set may not be for you. (Using "you" in the generic, non-person-specific form. I'm not referring to the OP in specific.)

You say counter-productive, I say "design intent". Stone Armor is unique (as you already mentioned previously) in that it's T9 is a toggle that eliminates the need for all of your other powers (except potentially Mud Pots and Rooted). It is the only armor set that can survive virtually any typical encounter running only 2 toggles (Granite and Mud Pots). Which means it requires significantly less endurance management than any other set (except Willpower and Regen).

To take this point to an extreme/IO build example... I have no doubt that my Stone tank could tank Scirocco, Cap'n Mako, Black Scorpion, the Flier, and a tower-buffed Recluse (notice the exclusion of Ghost Widow, due to her Hold) with no team assistance, indefinitely.


So... Your solution to fix a supposedly toggle-heavy set is.. To require you to run an extra 4 toggles more than you already typically run? (Speaking of post-32, again. To me, pre-32 is irrelevant to this discussion, as at that point, Stone Armor is effectively identical to nearly all of the other armor sets)

I don't see a nerf being required for the sake of a QoL improvement being implemented. Remove the exclusivity of Granite/Travel powers, but keep the -Speed, (though possibly reducing it) to prevent people from running around at full speed in Granite+Rooted. As I mentioned above, Super Speed or not, you aren't going to be running around at 50 MPH when you're covered in a bunch of rocks.

I would say reduce, not remove the -Jump from BOTH powers. As has been said before... I hate being defeated by a curb. I'm not asking for full mobility, just 1 foot of jump capability so I don't have to teleport over the curb to get to Wentworths, or whatever my destination may be.

I'm all for more options, but not at the expense of effectively gutting the uniqueness of the set for the sake of "fixing" issues that don't exist with the set.

This is a terrible comparison, I know, but... I can't think of a better one right now, I'm concentrating on finishing this post so I can eat my pizza.

Saying Granite needs to be nerfed so people don't feel obligated to take a power they don't like is like saying Dark Melee should get a damage buff and have Soul Drain nerfed so people don't feel obligated to take it.

Granite Armor (and Soul Drain) are critical parts of their respective sets. Nerfing them just so you don't feel obligated to take them isn't "fixing" anything. It's creating problems for all the people who like the uniqueness just how it is now.

I... Really can't argue with any of this. Customization would be great. lol


I'm probably going to want to edit this later, but for now... I want to eat my pizza before it gets cold, so I'll stop with this.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Zapp (the snipe in question in my posts) does a base 172.2 damage. Lightning Bolt (Elec's T2 Blast) does 102.6.

I agree (about the extra damage). In the example above, adding 30 damage would put it at exactly double the damage of the T2 Blast. I don't see a problem with this.

Like I said in my previous post, I wouldn't have a problem with this either. Possibly in addition to the damage, or alone as the only change.

This is where I potentially have a problem. Reference my previous post as to why, because I really don't want to type it all again. >.>

That makes more sense. However... What's funny is that I didn't go "out of my way" to make a "barely mediocre" power "work". I went into the build with the chosen powersets for the purpose of using as much range as possible to my advantage. Taking (and slotting as effectively as possible) the snipe included in the sets was a natural part of the package.

You are assuming that adding defense or recharge would instantly "make my build better". Sure, more recharge is always good, but at what point do you stop sacrificing other bonuses to keep stacking on more recharge? By going "Recharge Lite" on this build, I managed to slot in 20.5% Damage bonus, plus Assault, which puts me at +31% Damage before Defiance, Aim, and Build Up. More damage = Less attacks, thus less necessary recharge. As far as adding in more defense... Why? By the time anything actually *gets* to me, it's more than likely out of endurance, or if not, is so close to dead that it getting in one or two attacks won't do such a significant amount of damage that Aid Self won't fix. If both of those fail for whatever unusual reason, I also have two ST Holds to help keep Bosses under control.

You're assuming that there's nothing else in range when I'm sniping my chosen target. With the amount of range I have in this build, I can (assuming the map layout permits) snipe a chosen target 2-3 spawns away and continue attacking the current spawn (on slower moving teams) when it's done animating. (Which, I will not argue, the animation is far longer than it really needs to be) I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but I have a feeling that I can most likely snipe Nightstar on the BAF while standing at the wall with the rest of the team. No taunt-pull necessary, no putting myself in unnecessary danger by moving closer. (I hate to say that I *have* been on a few BAF's that did not have a single person with a taunt-type power) As an example, if memory serves, I can just about snipe Romulus from the top of the hill (the one across from his platform, 3rd mission of ITF), without getting aggro even from the pop-up turrets all over the place. From there, it's a short drop down to be in range of the computer.

So, to answer your question, if Zapp had a base 80ft range like all of my other attacks, it could potentially be a drastic change to my chosen playstyle for this character.

The only thing snipes "pay" for the extra range with is a very long (and interruptable) cast time, and increased endurance cost. However, they also get increased damage (almost double the damage of a T2 blast, base) to help counter it. (which, as I said at some point, I would not have a problem with shortening the cast time, and/or removing the interrupt)


I fail to see how the two are related. I would define a "main blast" as a power routinely used as a major part of a normal attack chain. If the fact that a power does not meet that definition makes it "broken", then by that definition, there's a rather massive pool of powers to choose from that are "broken". (AoE Holds, AoE Confuses, Recovery/Regen Aura, Adrenalin Boost come to mind, just to name a few)

Just because a power is not best used whenever it's available on every enemy (or friendly, as the case may be) doesn't make it inherently "broken".

Just to reiterate what I've been trying to say all along...
I'm not arguing against buffing snipes. I will gladly accept a damage buff or cast time reduction within reason (or even just removing the interrupt, I personally think snipes should still have a cast time somewhat longer than normal blasts). However, I am arguing against significantly changing the basic functionality of snipes. I think it's a bit late at this point in the development of the game to say "Oh wow, we have this power in 99.999% of the blast sets that almost nobody uses. Who cares if the people that do use it like it the way it is?". I like the added functionality/versatility that having a snipe gives me. Completely changing that functionality into "just another blast" is not the right way to "fix" a power that isn't actually "broken", just possibly weak. If the sets that contain a snipe (which, by the way, are all of them except Dual Pistols {commonly held to be one of the worst blast sets in the game. Irrelevant, but still worth pointing out, to me}, Ice {which gets other forms of added utility} and Sonic {which gets other forms of utility on top of the ever-useful -Res debuffs}) are just suffering that terribly at having such a terrible power in them that absolutely cannot be fixed without significantly changing the function of the power (and thus potentially significantly changing some players chosen style of play), maybe it's time to add a 10th power to blast sets.

Boost Range, Blaster SATO, Intuition Partial Radial, plus slotting for range. Remember those Centrioles *NOBODY* wants? Yeah, they come in handy here.

No, I'm merely saying that just because some people don't like to utilize snipes doesn't instantly make the concept totally worthless, like they would like you to believe. Building for range is just another way to achieve the same goal. That being to melt more enemies, faster.

And before a troll comes along and tries to use their Jedi Mind Tricks on this thread, I'm NOT saying it is the ONLY way, or the BEST way, or even a BETTER way. It is merely *A* way, and one that works just fine for me. My "other" Blaster is a Rad/Fire/Force that only has ONE Ranged attack that actually has enhancements on it, and that's only because Cosmic Burst is just too awesome to NOT slot. Every other attack it has is either PBAoE, TAoE, or Melee. Fire Sword is fairly awesome, y'know. It runs both Hot Feet and Blazing Aura, because you can't have too much melee damage from toggles.

No, in fact, /Energy is one of the most self-defeating (or, in my preferred words, "spastic") Blaster secondaries there is. It's "signature" power is Boost Range, and the set does not contain a single power that benefits from it. Every attack is Melee. In my opinion, it really only has 3 "good" powers. Build Up, Boost Range, and Power Boost. Conserve Power is a "nice to have". All of the other powers are (in my opinion) entirely skippable, for the purposes of this discussion. (I will be one of the first to say that if you prefer to build a blapper {which is a perfectly good method of melting more mobs, faster}, /Energy is a *very* nice set to do it with)

I'm honestly not sure what you're saying here, So here's a picture of a bunny with a pancake on it's head.



Yay, BUNNEH! (Seriously though, I'm not sure what you meant with the last bit I quoted.)

Read the rest of my post. I won't say no to more damage.



*shrug* I'm still using my 3 main blasts (Charged Bolts, Lightning Bolt and Spirit Shark Jaws), as well as Ball Lightning from 183ft. I'm nuking (Thunderous Blast) from 133.7ft (I LOL'd at that one), and puking (Bile Spray) from 141ft, with School of Sharks at 105ft, so I can use it on anything that may have survived, and back out of range again.

So, since you brought it up, I can effectively use 90% of my main attack chain from 33ft farther than base snipe range, thank you very much.

I won't complain if the powers that be decide to up the damage or cut the cast time on snipes, I'm just saying they aren't nearly as broken or worthless as everyone seems to think they are.

The rest of this thread has now been rendered irrelevant, for someone has used the phrase "harshing my mellow" in a legitimate conversation.

I applaud you, sir. (or ma'am?)