Discussion: The 2010 Halloween Event is here!
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2010-10-21 13:48 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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You don't get it, you don't understand analogies (and I'm not the only one who has noticed it), you don't get the point of making oppressors our virtual victims being a repudiation of their evil acts, while using the reference to title of a book that fostered oppression as a reward for a heroic act is not, and is so completely different as to be opposites. It's like a brick wall of not understanding talking to you. You even invented history without ever even bothering to look it up, but didn't say a word when you were called on it. |
Originally Posted by GMan3
Oh I get it very well. She has for some reason found personal reasons to be indignant with an event that happen about 500 years ago that killed possibly a few thousand individuals, but does not seem to mind an event from about 60 years ago that killed several million. The name of the badge and the style of the enemies in the game both serve as reminders of the past and nothing more. The analogy is perfect.
It is you, Ms. Mesmer and GG, that are not seeing the point. ALMOST NO ONE ELSE CARES about the stupid badge title. You have tried to make a mountain out of a mole hill and instead ended up with an ant hill. For the third time I will say it. Drop it and walk away, you are not convincing us with your argument by saying the same things over and over that didn't work in the first place. Walk away, it just isn't worth it. |
Like I said earlier, it really doesn't bother me all that much that the badge has the name that it does, but you are just being stubborn about this. Golden Girl is far from the only one that keeps harping on it, and I've made a grand total of three posts on the subject now. You, on the other hand, have been the "Defender of the Faith" here for most of the thread. I'm done with you on this subject, because it's not really a concern of mine, and because you refuse to even make logical sense. That was the whole reason that I let myself be dragged into this discussion, in the first place.
Someone mentioned alternative names for the badge. They went to popular culture for most of the others in that series, so what about Farmhouse or Bucket of Water, probably the 2 most well-known methods for killing fictional evil witches. One of the counter-arguments about this badge name, after all, is that most people probably don't even get the reference, so let's give them a reference that they will get.
I'd also dare certain posters in this thread to show where Batman has killed anyone that isn't some kind of nightmare or alternate dystopian future story in comics (Tim Burton's movies have him implicitly killing, but they are pretty far from the source, what with hubcap bombs and automatic weapons on the Batmobile), or to show me where Wolverine is killing people all the time as a superhero, not as a soldier in the past. He has killed a few, but that also is what paints him as a renegade among the more traditional superheroes in the Marvel Universe. Edited: Batman did technically mortally wound Darkseid's body at the end of Final Crisis, though Darkseid would have survived that, had the Black Racer not consumed him, but I'll count that as a kill, I suppose, since Batman may not have known that shooting him wouldn't really destroy Darkseid. So, that's one, when the universe itself was on the line.
Oh, and Nethergoat:
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Well, they already caved in back when they changed Bastion to Citadel to appease the Wiccans.
Not that they should continue the trend, but there's already a crack in that dam. |
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
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Ok, I will bite: other than Smiley-Girl and yourself, who exactly is "harping" on the evils of the Malleus badge? Please point them out.| Golden Girl is far from the only one that keeps harping on it, and I've made a grand total of three posts on the subject now. |
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| I'd also dare certain posters in this thread to show where Batman has killed anyone that isn't some kind of nightmare or alternate dystopian future story in comics (Tim Burton's movies have him implicitly killing, but they are pretty far from the source, what with hubcap bombs and automatic weapons on the Batmobile), or to show me where Wolverine is killing people all the time as a superhero, not as a soldier in the past. |
I will try to break it down: the Cabal is an evil villain-group in this game. EVIL. They are not your nice friendly Wiccans down the street. They want to kill everyone they can get their hands on, ESPECIALLY men [going from what I remember re text in the game], but they're not religious about it - they'll kill anyone.
Killing people WHO ARE TRYING TO KILL YOU is called "self defense" and is pretty much sanctioned in most justice systems. Hence the Malleus badge is perfectly appropriate. If you two do not like it I am sorry, but I have at least one person displaying the Malleus badge and that is how it is going to stay!
"Farmhouse." "Bucket of Water." Oh dear Lord, have mercy on us all! *eyeroll* [and do you really think most players are au fait with methods for executing witches? My guess on that one is a resounding "no."] Next we'll be banning "Column Breaker" because German people had to die for us to get that badge, no fair demonizing the Germans for stuff that happened over 50 years ago, SOME ONE PLEASE THINK OF THE GERMANS!~!
p.s. I am about 1/3 German myself, just to nip that in the bud before it starts.
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Uhm...|
Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer
I'd also dare certain posters in this thread [...] to show me where Wolverine is killing people all the time as a superhero, not as a soldier in the past. He has killed a few, but that also is what paints him as a renegade among the more traditional superheroes in the Marvel |
You've never read a Wolverine comic or X-Men title from the 80s and 90s, have you? He kills people all the time. Heck, he even tried to kill his own teammate (Rachel Summers - Phoenix).
This is not a point you want to try to build an argument on.
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I am done arguing the analogy with you as well. If the badge name, the book it *may* have been named after, AND the act was so "Atrocious" then the two enemy groups and the act of the Nazi Regime they were modeled after should be just as "Atrocious". If you don't want to see. That is your problem.|
Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer
You don't get it, you don't understand analogies . . .
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| . . . even invented history without ever even bothering to look it up, but didn't say a word when you were called on it. |
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Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer
This is incorrect. Spain actually did not charge nearly as many people with witchcraft during the Inquisition period and beyond as countries like France and England did. The Inquisition's main charge was heresy, particularly among former Jews and Muslims who had converted to Catholicism when the Muslim leaders were forced from Spain during the reconquest, but were charged with secretly practicing their former faiths.
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I would challenge you to actually research this yourself. I DID in order to better understand my own religion better, both historically and modern.
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| Golden Girl is far from the only one that keeps harping on it. |
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| I've made a grand total of three posts on the subject now. You, on the other hand, have been the "Defender of the Faith" here for most of the thread. |
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| Someone mentioned alternative names for the badge. |
As for the rest of your post, I ignored a lot of it because it was little more than a rant AND because it was already covered by other people before I had a chance to reply.
Now, since you said you don't want to debate this any more, I wish you a good day and happy hunting.
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I would have used the word "earnest" instead of "silly".
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Originally Posted by GMan3
I feel her argument is silly at best so I chose to argue against it.
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Wow, did this thread ever get hijacked. I came here looking for some info on finding Acantha (which I did, thanks tons to whoever posted the tip about moving away from her) and fell into the middle of a flame war. Wouldn't it have been better to create a thread for that, instead of cluttering up this one?
This forum does not feel like the game I know and love with an amazingly friendly community.
Please people can we have less fighting and more discussion about the game - without personal atacks.
Both sides of the arguments across the forum could do with stepping back and pausing for breath - its not pleasant to watch or read.
The issue Golden Girl has brought up really has nothing to do with overreacting or being overly sensitive.
In a medium of entertainment that clearly strives to maintain certain levels of taste... That choice of a name is in questionable taste, if not clearly in bad taste.
Golden Girl, and anyone else, has every right to point this out. And no one needs to convince any other players about it, she is raising the issue to the creators and those responsible and capable of changing it.
While I do agree that the lengths of time since specific atrocities were committed do change the general etiquette regarding what is or is not in bad taste, I think that it is clear that most (If not all) other badge titles and other aspects of pop-culture and/or real world historical references in this game do not cross a certain standard.
If there are other historical references that resemble the relation of Malleus and Witches within this game, then I stand corrected.
In all honesty... the reference very well may have been picked up and chosen more from some fictional work (the name Witch Hammer and so on and so forth has likely been used in many fictional works) without realizing the bloody historical significance. I only say that to mention that the full matter may not have been considered when that name was chosen. *shrugs*
No one is crying and covering their children's eyes and making a big something out of nothing... Someone made a post (And hopefully a PM or more?) about an intellectual concern of content containing, at least, questionable taste.
I don't get offended by such things. However, I still recognize that the game seems to hold a certain standard and I can absolutely agree that this particular badge seems to break that standard.
Not a big deal. Remove that connection.
As for it being okay if you're a villain... Hey, yeah, I agree with that.
The questioned content isn't about how it does or doesn't fit with what happens in the game in order to achieve it... It is about the out-of-game connotation and the question of if that is necessarily in good taste.
Detractors of Golden Girl... Just as you may tell her to relax... Perhaps so should you. 
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Relax? I'll relax when she quits trying to remove one of the better badge-titles in the game, that's when.
I DO NOT want this badge title removed. I like it. I USE it. It is great for melee characters. I don't want it taken away from me because one person is freaking out over stuff that happened several hundred years ago.
Ban this, and a ton of other stuff is bound to follow. We have ALREADY had many many lovely badge-titles ripped away from us over the MA debacle. Let's don't lose any more, sez I.
Smiley-Girl is free to use whatever badge titles she wants. If she does not want to use Malleus, THEN DON'T. This does NOT mean the rest of the playerbase should be punished, because her and like, two other people want this badge stripped. Sorry, that's how it looks from over here. HANDS OFF THIS BADGE.
You must have missed the part where I said I thought it was ok to use the name for another badge that wasn't connected to witches or witchcraft.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
That's nice.
Hands off of Malleus, tyvm. I don't want it touched. We suffer enough crap in the name of political correctness in real life; I do not want you getting the Malleus badge pulled, nor do I want you as the Arbiter Of Badge Tastefulness. That'll be next, you'll be appointed the Badge Czar. *facepalm* No thanks.
Leave Malleus alone. Thanks for understanding.
And... No point in attempting to have any sort of reasonable discussion with that.
No worries, it is not necessary to attempt any such thing. 
Definitely might want to relax though. 
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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you must of not loved it enough if a few people can disrupt it that much ;p
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Originally Posted by Major_Control
This forum does not feel like the game I know and love with an amazingly friendly community.
Please people can we have less fighting and more discussion about the game - without personal atacks. Both sides of the arguments across the forum could do with stepping back and pausing for breath - its not pleasant to watch or read. |
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Wow some people are just spoiling for a fight. |
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
you must of not loved it enough if a few people can disrupt it that much ;p
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I did not say it had stopped or reduced my love of the game one iota - just that the forums can at times not reflect the mood of co-operation and community that the game has at its core.
Being attacked for asking for some moderation in language and respect for others from ALL sides in the arguments seems to demonstrate the problem - "if you don't agree with what I say then I attack YOU not your argument".
Perhaps we should have an Arena/PVP area of the forums where certain members can happily beat each other senseless while the rest of us read, search for information and occasionally have a giggle.
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I completely agree. 100%. Of course I have already said it a few times now, but I figured it could not hurt to say it one last time. I just honestly hope the company staff looks at this thread and sees how little support there is for changing the name, not to mention how silly the argument for changing it really is. In short, I hope the PM's to get the name changed FAILS!
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Relax? I'll relax when she quits trying to remove one of the better badge-titles in the game, that's when.
I DO NOT want this badge title removed. I like it. I USE it. It is great for melee characters. I don't want it taken away from me because one person is freaking out over stuff that happened several hundred years ago. Ban this, and a ton of other stuff is bound to follow. We have ALREADY had many many lovely badge-titles ripped away from us over the MA debacle. Let's don't lose any more, sez I. Smiley-Girl is free to use whatever badge titles she wants. If she does not want to use Malleus, THEN DON'T. This does NOT mean the rest of the playerbase should be punished, because her and like, two other people want this badge stripped. Sorry, that's how it looks from over here. HANDS OFF THIS BADGE. |
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I have a feeling "reasonable discussion" might be standing in for "Let's have you come on around to my point of view." In this instance, not happening.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
And... No point in attempting to have any sort of reasonable discussion with that.
No worries, it is not necessary to attempt any such thing. Definitely might want to relax though. |
I am uninterested in any sort of compromise on this issue. I don't WANT the badge or its name altered in any way. I CERTAINLY do not want it taken away from us over the opinions of like, two people on the forums vs 100,000+ players.
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Originally Posted by GMan3
Actually, the argument was over GG wanting the name of the Malleus badge for killing witches in the Halloween Event changed because she feels it is a reference to the "Malleus Maleficarum" (which it probably is). A book written for the Church in the Middle Ages used for identifying, prosecuting, and killing "Witches". It really is a rather silly argument overall, but go back a few pages and read it for yourself. You might just get a kick out of it.
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Except that the only Malleus reference in game has always been the "Mundi". I don't see any complaining about The cannibal badge which is for defeating ghouls. Am I supposed to believe that I ate them?
This is starting to remind me of the time someone was on here saying that the slap/smack emotes promoted violence against women and wanted them removed. Just plain silly
What is her solution for character(s) that use that as a badge title?
I for one lost "Executioner" when they removed it from the game. I do not want to see anything like that again, even for name changes, and especially not on a badge that has existed for a couple of years now.
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
a wiccan myself; i support gg's effort.
that said this topic is wildly off base. so here is my 2cents on topic
upper level gm management informed me that acantha fades in and out since she's not a regular contact. she is located 143 yds northeast of the tiberian bluff marker. so you may need to approach her a few times. going to test this reply now. will report back.
edit: found her! she's in a green bolero cape, witch hat, and the leaf aura!!!. the paragon wiki coord will put you in area [my coord differed by a few 10ths]: ok won't let me post coords but on paragon wiki.
morr gan outta the house. peace!!
'i used to have superpowers until my therapists took them away' random bumper sticker
please excuse the small print. arthritis makes it difficult to use the shift keys.
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Now I don't really care one way or the other the badge name, BUT, if you're going to deny people's logic by the way you put your logic, please stop.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Neither of those powers mention death or being dead.
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the badge NEVER mentions the full name of the book, the title or anything about what happened. It says "defeated 75 witches". Where do you get the reference to crimes against humanity without the badge mentioning it?
Let's say I'm Greek and I find the "Legionnaire" badge offensive because the Roman Legionnaire's defeated my ancestors in conquest. Can we remove it?
G_G has logic?
where?
Hmm.. having baddies of color is a reference to rascism.. I WANT THEM REMOVED.. wait.. no..nevermind.. its just me being a whiny *****, mybad..
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someone put on their serious hat >.>
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Originally Posted by Major_Control
Wow some people are just spoiling for a fight.
I did not say it had stopped or reduced my love of the game one iota - just that the forums can at times not reflect the mood of co-operation and community that the game has at its core. Being attacked for asking for some moderation in language and respect for others from ALL sides in the arguments seems to demonstrate the problem - "if you don't agree with what I say then I attack YOU not your argument". Perhaps we should have an Arena/PVP area of the forums where certain members can happily beat each other senseless while the rest of us read, search for information and occasionally have a giggle. |
What this thread needs is a Popcorn stand.